14+ compensator spring preload check

[joe_lyons]

Lol

[rageglide]

What about more than one clunk?   I don't hear anymore clunking anymore unless it's shut down in 1st gear rolling.

So, you have the stand down, bars slightly to the right and you are off the bike before it stops rolling too? 
Ron

I thought that made the clunk-crash sound...

I've never had a harley make a clunking sounds when I shut it down.  But the 14+ comp did, just sayin.

[rbabos]

What about more than one clunk?   I don't hear anymore clunking anymore unless it's shut down in 1st gear rolling.

So, you have the stand down, bars slightly to the right and you are off the bike before it stops rolling too? 
Ron

I thought that made the clunk-crash sound...

I've never had a harley make a clunking sounds when I shut it down.  But the 14+ comp did, just sayin.

By design and the space between decel and accel contact points with compression rebound in some ways that clunk is to be considered somewhat normal.  I'll take a shutdown clunk any day compared to starter clutch grind or a startup bang that a poor comp can create. The good points of the SE out ways that one pesky bad trait some have depending on the engine builds that have higher CCP . Now neutral rattle and tb clucking, those would send me over the edge.
Ron

[Wicked]

. Now neutral rattle and tb clucking, those would send me over the edge.
Ron

Man yes....them noises suck!! My shovel r soundin better every day....even with that large SU piston "clunk"    (needs another shot of WD40...)  !
Paul

[gabbyduffy]

     What tensioners are you guys using when you hear the clunk?  any chance your using a Hayden?

[rageglide]

     What tensioners are you guys using when you hear the clunk?  any chance your using a Hayden?

I had the oem auto tensioner because the baker won't fit with the compensaver...

Wicked, the SU piston cluck, I know that sound... the little nylon button the floor of the carb throat is completely gone.  Not that's a noisy sumbitch!  But it's ok, because it's a known commodity.

[gabbyduffy]

         Whats your thoughts on increasing spring pack height on bikes making more then stock power? Is more spring tension nesasary in the 120 HP range?

[Steve Cole]

The lower the power output, the lower the spring pressure is needed to do the job. HD spent plenty of time playing with those pressures when we worked for them trying to get a balance of smoothness and not hitting the limits under decel and accel, for there STOCK engines. The lighter the pressure can be, the longer it last and the smoother the operation of the unit. Now as you increase the spring pressure, you also start with more wear on the rubbing parts, so that requires different finishes and hardness of materials, to with stand up to it all. This cost more so we all know which way HD went! The SE parts were built for higher output engines and HD learned over time that is what should have been there to start with for the stock engines. Problem is most of the aftermarket is taking the power up from stock and expecting the stock units to handle it! Guess what.......... it doesn't work well, and that is what everyone is figuring out now. Lighter bikes can live with less pressure than heavier bikes too, so it is really a balance of what feels good and what will hold up well across a wide range of weights and power outputs for the factory. Now, add in all the things we do in the aftermarket and it's no wonder they fail. I really do not believe your going to have a one size fits all unit that will hold up well. The higher output engines are most likely going to keep on killing these until a better unit is made with higher quality materials and heat treating, along with better surface finishes on the mating surfaces are done. This is going to cost more too! Yes, it's going to have to have enough oil getting to the surfaces too but using low grade materiel and light springs isn't going to cut it.

[rbabos]

The lower the power output, the lower the spring pressure is needed to do the job. HD spent plenty of time playing with those pressures when we worked for them trying to get a balance of smoothness and not hitting the limits under decel and accel, for there STOCK engines. The lighter the pressure can be, the longer it last and the smoother the operation of the unit. Now as you increase the spring pressure, you also start with more wear on the rubbing parts, so that requires different finishes and hardness of materials, to with stand up to it all. This cost more so we all know which way HD went! The SE parts were built for higher output engines and HD learned over time that is what should have been there to start with for the stock engines. Problem is most of the aftermarket is taking the power up from stock and expecting the stock units to handle it! Guess what.......... it doesn't work well, and that is what everyone is figuring out now. Lighter bikes can live with less pressure than heavier bikes too, so it is really a balance of what feels good and what will hold up well across a wide range of weights and power outputs for the factory. Now, add in all the things we do in the aftermarket and it's no wonder they fail. I really do not believe your going to have a one size fits all unit that will hold up well. The higher output engines are most likely going to keep on killing these until a better unit is made with higher quality materials and heat treating, along with better surface finishes on the mating surfaces are done. This is going to cost more too! Yes, it's going to have to have enough oil getting to the surfaces too but using low grade materiel and light springs isn't going to cut it.

Key ingredient is OIL

Tested and proven over and over again on the SE units.

[Steve Cole]

The lower the power output, the lower the spring pressure is needed to do the job. HD spent plenty of time playing with those pressures when we worked for them trying to get a balance of smoothness and not hitting the limits under decel and accel, for there STOCK engines. The lighter the pressure can be, the longer it last and the smoother the operation of the unit. Now as you increase the spring pressure, you also start with more wear on the rubbing parts, so that requires different finishes and hardness of materials, to with stand up to it all. This cost more so we all know which way HD went! The SE parts were built for higher output engines and HD learned over time that is what should have been there to start with for the stock engines. Problem is most of the aftermarket is taking the power up from stock and expecting the stock units to handle it! Guess what.......... it doesn't work well, and that is what everyone is figuring out now. Lighter bikes can live with less pressure than heavier bikes too, so it is really a balance of what feels good and what will hold up well across a wide range of weights and power outputs for the factory. Now, add in all the things we do in the aftermarket and it's no wonder they fail. I really do not believe your going to have a one size fits all unit that will hold up well. The higher output engines are most likely going to keep on killing these until a better unit is made with higher quality materials and heat treating, along with better surface finishes on the mating surfaces are done. This is going to cost more too! Yes, it's going to have to have enough oil getting to the surfaces too but using low grade materiel and light springs isn't going to cut it.

Key ingredient is OIL

Tested and proven over and over again on the SE units.

Maybe for you on the forum that's YOUR answer but out in the real world it doesn't cut it. Sure, no oil on a metal to metal contact is going to fail but until you have oil pressure to work with it's still just a drip lube system! If it were a simple problem with one simple solution of more drip oil it would have been solved long ago but to date they ALL still fail. You seem to forget that many of the ideas for the one you push, came from right here on this site, and while it's helped some of them it has not solved them all!

[rbabos]

The lower the power output, the lower the spring pressure is needed to do the job. HD spent plenty of time playing with those pressures when we worked for them trying to get a balance of smoothness and not hitting the limits under decel and accel, for there STOCK engines. The lighter the pressure can be, the longer it last and the smoother the operation of the unit. Now as you increase the spring pressure, you also start with more wear on the rubbing parts, so that requires different finishes and hardness of materials, to with stand up to it all. This cost more so we all know which way HD went! The SE parts were built for higher output engines and HD learned over time that is what should have been there to start with for the stock engines. Problem is most of the aftermarket is taking the power up from stock and expecting the stock units to handle it! Guess what.......... it doesn't work well, and that is what everyone is figuring out now. Lighter bikes can live with less pressure than heavier bikes too, so it is really a balance of what feels good and what will hold up well across a wide range of weights and power outputs for the factory. Now, add in all the things we do in the aftermarket and it's no wonder they fail. I really do not believe your going to have a one size fits all unit that will hold up well. The higher output engines are most likely going to keep on killing these until a better unit is made with higher quality materials and heat treating, along with better surface finishes on the mating surfaces are done. This is going to cost more too! Yes, it's going to have to have enough oil getting to the surfaces too but using low grade materiel and light springs isn't going to cut it.

Key ingredient is OIL

Tested and proven over and over again on the SE units.

Maybe for you on the forum that's YOUR answer but out in the real world it doesn't cut it. Sure, no oil on a metal to metal contact is going to fail but until you have oil pressure to work with it's still just a drip lube system! If it were a simple problem with one simple solution of more drip oil it would have been solved long ago but to date they ALL still fail. You seem to forget that many of the ideas for the one you push, came from right here on this site, and while it's helped some of them it has not solved them all!

I think you should research more before spewing crap. Must be a carry over from the tuning section, huh?
Ron

[BUBBIE]

I KNOW....I'm here...

At 55,000 miles I replaced my Stock Comp (09 king Cup style)... Put in a SE08A.. GROOVED it on the 3 Spokes and on the Boss face to Draw in a LITTLE OIL...
(that LONG Fretting Thread)

I'm Not hard on the bike and BOTH have help me as I see it... Grooving and MTL......that SE 08A has 54,000 miles on it today, working just fine in the 103".

signed....BUBBIE

[Steve Cole]

The lower the power output, the lower the spring pressure is needed to do the job. HD spent plenty of time playing with those pressures when we worked for them trying to get a balance of smoothness and not hitting the limits under decel and accel, for there STOCK engines. The lighter the pressure can be, the longer it last and the smoother the operation of the unit. Now as you increase the spring pressure, you also start with more wear on the rubbing parts, so that requires different finishes and hardness of materials, to with stand up to it all. This cost more so we all know which way HD went! The SE parts were built for higher output engines and HD learned over time that is what should have been there to start with for the stock engines. Problem is most of the aftermarket is taking the power up from stock and expecting the stock units to handle it! Guess what.......... it doesn't work well, and that is what everyone is figuring out now. Lighter bikes can live with less pressure than heavier bikes too, so it is really a balance of what feels good and what will hold up well across a wide range of weights and power outputs for the factory. Now, add in all the things we do in the aftermarket and it's no wonder they fail. I really do not believe your going to have a one size fits all unit that will hold up well. The higher output engines are most likely going to keep on killing these until a better unit is made with higher quality materials and heat treating, along with better surface finishes on the mating surfaces are done. This is going to cost more too! Yes, it's going to have to have enough oil getting to the surfaces too but using low grade materiel and light springs isn't going to cut it.

Key ingredient is OIL

Tested and proven over and over again on the SE units.

Maybe for you on the forum that's YOUR answer but out in the real world it doesn't cut it. Sure, no oil on a metal to metal contact is going to fail but until you have oil pressure to work with it's still just a drip lube system! If it were a simple problem with one simple solution of more drip oil it would have been solved long ago but to date they ALL still fail. You seem to forget that many of the ideas for the one you push, came from right here on this site, and while it's helped some of them it has not solved them all!

I think you should research more before spewing crap. Must be a carry over from the tuning section, huh?
Ron

Would expect nothing less from you since you haven't a clue!

[hrdtail78]

The lower the power output, the lower the spring pressure is needed to do the job. HD spent plenty of time playing with those pressures when we worked for them trying to get a balance of smoothness and not hitting the limits under decel and accel, for there STOCK engines. The lighter the pressure can be, the longer it last and the smoother the operation of the unit. Now as you increase the spring pressure, you also start with more wear on the rubbing parts, so that requires different finishes and hardness of materials, to with stand up to it all. This cost more so we all know which way HD went! The SE parts were built for higher output engines and HD learned over time that is what should have been there to start with for the stock engines. Problem is most of the aftermarket is taking the power up from stock and expecting the stock units to handle it! Guess what.......... it doesn't work well, and that is what everyone is figuring out now. Lighter bikes can live with less pressure than heavier bikes too, so it is really a balance of what feels good and what will hold up well across a wide range of weights and power outputs for the factory. Now, add in all the things we do in the aftermarket and it's no wonder they fail. I really do not believe your going to have a one size fits all unit that will hold up well. The higher output engines are most likely going to keep on killing these until a better unit is made with higher quality materials and heat treating, along with better surface finishes on the mating surfaces are done. This is going to cost more too! Yes, it's going to have to have enough oil getting to the surfaces too but using low grade materiel and light springs isn't going to cut it.

Key ingredient is OIL

Tested and proven over and over again on the SE units.

Maybe for you on the forum that's YOUR answer but out in the real world it doesn't cut it. Sure, no oil on a metal to metal contact is going to fail but until you have oil pressure to work with it's still just a drip lube system! If it were a simple problem with one simple solution of more drip oil it would have been solved long ago but to date they ALL still fail. You seem to forget that many of the ideas for the one you push, came from right here on this site, and while it's helped some of them it has not solved them all!

I think you should research more before spewing crap. Must be a carry over from the tuning section, huh?
Ron

Ron,   What comp you have in your bike and how did you address the oil issue?

[rbabos]

The lower the power output, the lower the spring pressure is needed to do the job. HD spent plenty of time playing with those pressures when we worked for them trying to get a balance of smoothness and not hitting the limits under decel and accel, for there STOCK engines. The lighter the pressure can be, the longer it last and the smoother the operation of the unit. Now as you increase the spring pressure, you also start with more wear on the rubbing parts, so that requires different finishes and hardness of materials, to with stand up to it all. This cost more so we all know which way HD went! The SE parts were built for higher output engines and HD learned over time that is what should have been there to start with for the stock engines. Problem is most of the aftermarket is taking the power up from stock and expecting the stock units to handle it! Guess what.......... it doesn't work well, and that is what everyone is figuring out now. Lighter bikes can live with less pressure than heavier bikes too, so it is really a balance of what feels good and what will hold up well across a wide range of weights and power outputs for the factory. Now, add in all the things we do in the aftermarket and it's no wonder they fail. I really do not believe your going to have a one size fits all unit that will hold up well. The higher output engines are most likely going to keep on killing these until a better unit is made with higher quality materials and heat treating, along with better surface finishes on the mating surfaces are done. This is going to cost more too! Yes, it's going to have to have enough oil getting to the surfaces too but using low grade materiel and light springs isn't going to cut it.

Key ingredient is OIL

Tested and proven over and over again on the SE units.

Maybe for you on the forum that's YOUR answer but out in the real world it doesn't cut it. Sure, no oil on a metal to metal contact is going to fail but until you have oil pressure to work with it's still just a drip lube system! If it were a simple problem with one simple solution of more drip oil it would have been solved long ago but to date they ALL still fail. You seem to forget that many of the ideas for the one you push, came from right here on this site, and while it's helped some of them it has not solved them all!

I think you should research more before spewing crap. Must be a carry over from the tuning section, huh?
Ron

Would expect nothing less from you since you haven't a clue!

Possibly but I'm half assed likable.
Ron

[rbabos]

The lower the power output, the lower the spring pressure is needed to do the job. HD spent plenty of time playing with those pressures when we worked for them trying to get a balance of smoothness and not hitting the limits under decel and accel, for there STOCK engines. The lighter the pressure can be, the longer it last and the smoother the operation of the unit. Now as you increase the spring pressure, you also start with more wear on the rubbing parts, so that requires different finishes and hardness of materials, to with stand up to it all. This cost more so we all know which way HD went! The SE parts were built for higher output engines and HD learned over time that is what should have been there to start with for the stock engines. Problem is most of the aftermarket is taking the power up from stock and expecting the stock units to handle it! Guess what.......... it doesn't work well, and that is what everyone is figuring out now. Lighter bikes can live with less pressure than heavier bikes too, so it is really a balance of what feels good and what will hold up well across a wide range of weights and power outputs for the factory. Now, add in all the things we do in the aftermarket and it's no wonder they fail. I really do not believe your going to have a one size fits all unit that will hold up well. The higher output engines are most likely going to keep on killing these until a better unit is made with higher quality materials and heat treating, along with better surface finishes on the mating surfaces are done. This is going to cost more too! Yes, it's going to have to have enough oil getting to the surfaces too but using low grade materiel and light springs isn't going to cut it.

Key ingredient is OIL

Tested and proven over and over again on the SE units.

Maybe for you on the forum that's YOUR answer but out in the real world it doesn't cut it. Sure, no oil on a metal to metal contact is going to fail but until you have oil pressure to work with it's still just a drip lube system! If it were a simple problem with one simple solution of more drip oil it would have been solved long ago but to date they ALL still fail. You seem to forget that many of the ideas for the one you push, came from right here on this site, and while it's helped some of them it has not solved them all!

I think you should research more before spewing crap. Must be a carry over from the tuning section, huh?
Ron

Ron,   What comp you have in your bike and how did you address the oil issue?

08 and 08a and a compensaver prototype was used in the 07 fxstc. Current bike is a v rod.
Ron

[hrdtail78]

The lower the power output, the lower the spring pressure is needed to do the job. HD spent plenty of time playing with those pressures when we worked for them trying to get a balance of smoothness and not hitting the limits under decel and accel, for there STOCK engines. The lighter the pressure can be, the longer it last and the smoother the operation of the unit. Now as you increase the spring pressure, you also start with more wear on the rubbing parts, so that requires different finishes and hardness of materials, to with stand up to it all. This cost more so we all know which way HD went! The SE parts were built for higher output engines and HD learned over time that is what should have been there to start with for the stock engines. Problem is most of the aftermarket is taking the power up from stock and expecting the stock units to handle it! Guess what.......... it doesn't work well, and that is what everyone is figuring out now. Lighter bikes can live with less pressure than heavier bikes too, so it is really a balance of what feels good and what will hold up well across a wide range of weights and power outputs for the factory. Now, add in all the things we do in the aftermarket and it's no wonder they fail. I really do not believe your going to have a one size fits all unit that will hold up well. The higher output engines are most likely going to keep on killing these until a better unit is made with higher quality materials and heat treating, along with better surface finishes on the mating surfaces are done. This is going to cost more too! Yes, it's going to have to have enough oil getting to the surfaces too but using low grade materiel and light springs isn't going to cut it.

Key ingredient is OIL

Tested and proven over and over again on the SE units.

Maybe for you on the forum that's YOUR answer but out in the real world it doesn't cut it. Sure, no oil on a metal to metal contact is going to fail but until you have oil pressure to work with it's still just a drip lube system! If it were a simple problem with one simple solution of more drip oil it would have been solved long ago but to date they ALL still fail. You seem to forget that many of the ideas for the one you push, came from right here on this site, and while it's helped some of them it has not solved them all!

I think you should research more before spewing crap. Must be a carry over from the tuning section, huh?
Ron

Ron,   What comp you have in your bike and how did you address the oil issue?

Ask Steve. He has all the clues.
Ron

I guess that is an easier answer than just stating you don't own a big twin.

[rbabos]

The lower the power output, the lower the spring pressure is needed to do the job. HD spent plenty of time playing with those pressures when we worked for them trying to get a balance of smoothness and not hitting the limits under decel and accel, for there STOCK engines. The lighter the pressure can be, the longer it last and the smoother the operation of the unit. Now as you increase the spring pressure, you also start with more wear on the rubbing parts, so that requires different finishes and hardness of materials, to with stand up to it all. This cost more so we all know which way HD went! The SE parts were built for higher output engines and HD learned over time that is what should have been there to start with for the stock engines. Problem is most of the aftermarket is taking the power up from stock and expecting the stock units to handle it! Guess what.......... it doesn't work well, and that is what everyone is figuring out now. Lighter bikes can live with less pressure than heavier bikes too, so it is really a balance of what feels good and what will hold up well across a wide range of weights and power outputs for the factory. Now, add in all the things we do in the aftermarket and it's no wonder they fail. I really do not believe your going to have a one size fits all unit that will hold up well. The higher output engines are most likely going to keep on killing these until a better unit is made with higher quality materials and heat treating, along with better surface finishes on the mating surfaces are done. This is going to cost more too! Yes, it's going to have to have enough oil getting to the surfaces too but using low grade materiel and light springs isn't going to cut it.

Key ingredient is OIL

Tested and proven over and over again on the SE units.

Maybe for you on the forum that's YOUR answer but out in the real world it doesn't cut it. Sure, no oil on a metal to metal contact is going to fail but until you have oil pressure to work with it's still just a drip lube system! If it were a simple problem with one simple solution of more drip oil it would have been solved long ago but to date they ALL still fail. You seem to forget that many of the ideas for the one you push, came from right here on this site, and while it's helped some of them it has not solved them all!

I think you should research more before spewing crap. Must be a carry over from the tuning section, huh?
Ron

Ron,   What comp you have in your bike and how did you address the oil issue?

Ask Steve. He has all the clues.
Ron

I guess that is an easier answer than just stating you don't own a big twin.

Reread my reply. The system is proven . is your point? The bike was the test unit for that and some other things I played with. Doesn't mean I have to own it forever. That's like me asking you if you keep every bike you tune, just to prove you can tune.
Ron

[Steve Cole]

The problem still is that the fix as you called it didn't fix them all. Did it help, I'm sure it did, but it didn't fix them all so there is still something missing and since you got rid of your test bike you will never know how it would have done over the long haul with a high torque engine!

[rbabos]

The problem still is that the fix as you called it didn't fix them all. Did it help, I'm sure it did, but it didn't fix them all so there is still something missing and since you got rid of your test bike you will never know how it would have done over the long haul with a high torque engine!

This is a team effort. We have tri-glide to test with but long term testing is done now to our satisfaction, with the PEAK as the last test subject.  That solves that. No point playing with a light weight when the heavy bike loaded up pulling a trailer will show results or lack of faster. Set the preload, use a decent , use the oiling kit and it's as good as it will get. There is always going to be comp qc issues with the odd one of them. That, we cannot control.
Ron

[Steve Cole]

The problem still is that the fix as you called it didn't fix them all. Did it help, I'm sure it did, but it didn't fix them all so there is still something missing and since you got rid of your test bike you will never know how it would have done over the long haul with a high torque engine!

This is a team effort. We have tri-glide to test with but long term testing is done now to our satisfaction, with the PEAK as the last test subject.  That solves that. No point playing with a light weight when the heavy bike loaded up pulling a trailer will show results or lack of faster. Set the preload, use a decent , use the oiling kit and it's as good as it will get. There is always going to be comp qc issues with the odd one of them. That, we cannot control.
Ron

I notice you didn't say fixed, only as good as it gets. This still leave plenty of room for improvement and it's not going to be a one size fits all either, IMHO. This is no easy issue as many others have found out before you started playing around with it, and after you gave up.

[rbabos]

The problem still is that the fix as you called it didn't fix them all. Did it help, I'm sure it did, but it didn't fix them all so there is still something missing and since you got rid of your test bike you will never know how it would have done over the long haul with a high torque engine!

This is a team effort. We have tri-glide to test with but long term testing is done now to our satisfaction, with the PEAK as the last test subject.  That solves that. No point playing with a light weight when the heavy bike loaded up pulling a trailer will show results or lack of faster. Set the preload, use a decent , use the oiling kit and it's as good as it will get. There is always going to be comp qc issues with the odd one of them. That, we cannot control.
Ron

I notice you didn't say fixed, only as good as it gets. This still leave plenty of room for improvement and it's not going to be a one size fits all either, IMHO. This is no easy issue as many others have found out before you started playing around with it, and after you gave up.

Who said I gave up? Seems like you take every opportunity to attack me in any childish manner possible, just like one other person on this forum. Grow up.  We offer the best possible solution to prevent pre mature compensator wear, bar none. It's as simple as that.  Currently the Primo 32 is being checked out with the oiler to see how it works out. Tray clearance is good and it looks like a decent unit so far. I'm still fully involved with the product and yes I branched over to the vrod because I really like the bike. So sue me if that is a crime since I can only afford and only have room for one bike.
Ron

[hrdtail78]

No Ron.  I don't keep all the bikes that I tune,  but I do have a bike with one of my tunes in it.   That way.  When somebody  ask what I run in my own bike.  I can tell them.

Attacked?   You have a product.  You push that product on this forum every chance you get.  Why do you get so defensive over a couple of questions?   You act like nobody has ever found a problem with your product.   But nobody has started a thread of "compensavers suck" yet.

[rbabos]

No Ron.  I don't keep all the bikes that I tune,  but I do have a bike with one of my tunes in it.   That way.  When somebody  ask what I run in my own bike.  I can tell them.

Attacked?   You have a product.  You push that product on this forum every chance you get.  Why do you get so defensive over a couple of questions?   You act like nobody has ever found a problem with your product.   But nobody has started a thread of "compensavers suck" yet.

I'll answer any questions on the product but PM would be better as I'm already pushing the forum limits. As for problems here and there, sure the odd one. We make every effort and went above and beyond to fix it. Seems to me, we replaced your old obsolete units with new ones for free, right? Even though we may not see eye to eye, it was the right thing to do.
Ron 

[hrdtail78]

As for problems here and there, sure the odd one. We make every effort and went above and beyond to fix it.

No different than other good companies in the industry.

it was the right thing to do.
Ron 

Hope your not breaking your arm over the right thing to do.  For free?  Let's just say.  I am glad I have a good enough relationship with GMR as one of their dealers.  That they decided to do the right thing and take care of his dealer network.  I also consider him a friend.