Aluminum Wheel lacing question ( Max)

[zoot]

I picked up a aluminum FXR wheel at a local bike swap. Very good shape, just looked like it was setting on a shelf for years. I also have a extra Dyna wheel assembly from the 1" axle era. Question is will the stock spokes from the steel wheel work with the aluminum wheel ?  Or if not what would be good spokes to use?
I haven't worked with wheel lacing sense the early 70's. Back in the day aluminum front wheel was the thing. When you hit something hopefully just the wheel bent and not every thing else . Plus you had less unsprung weight . All my Ducati's had aluminum wheels front and back.   

[garyajaz]

drop center alum wheel?
(edit)
pix appears yes,
will look into it.
I did pretty much same thing a few years ago.
I just laced up with new stainless Buchanons.  (sp)
I been using their stuff on ol vintage stuff for 20 years.

[Admiral Akbar]

 

I don't see any pics.. The important things are the spools look the same, wheel size and as Gary says the drop in the middle.. Drop centers have spokes about 1/2 inch shorter than non drop rims..

You best bet is Buchanan for a custom app.. I've used them on and off for 40 years.. First time was 66/67 round cylinder BSA 441.. It got Akront ridge type wheels on stock hubs in 1974.. 21 in the front....   

[zoot]

on wheel size      on the aluminum   outer wheel edge to the inter rise (drop) is about 1.57  the inside diameter is about 17.25 

on the steel  wheel edge  to rise is about 1.34   and inside diameter 17.9/16     

the hub is 4.67 from center to center of opposing spoke holes

I would think from this I would need shorter spokes. could i take a dye and run the thread a little farther down the spokes ?

Spokes are 8 3/8 in length

[Admiral Akbar]

on wheel size      on the aluminum   outer wheel edge to the inter rise (drop) is about 1.57  the inside diameter is about 17.25 

on the steel  wheel edge  to rise is about 1.34   and inside diameter 17.9/16     

the hub is 4.67 from center to center of opposing spoke holes

I would think from this I would need shorter spokes. could i take a dye and run the thread a little farther down the spokes ?

Spokes are 8 3/8 in length

How are you getting the numbers?  Are you measuring from the bead?  What is 17.9/16?   

[zoot]

on wheel size      on the aluminum   outer wheel edge to the inter rise (drop) is about 1.57  the inside diameter is about 17.25 

on the steel  wheel edge  to rise is about 1.34   and inside diameter 17.9/16     

the hub is 4.67 from center to center of opposing spoke holes

I would think from this I would need shorter spokes. could i take a dye and run the thread a little farther down the spokes ?

Spokes are 8 3/8 in length

How are you getting the numbers?  Are you measuring from the bead?  What is 17.9/16?

the 17 9/16 is the inside diameter of the  wheel from the drop to drop.  There is about a 5/16 difference between the inside diameter of the  wheels , the spokes would need to be about 3/16 shorter? or am I thinking wrong.    But the spokes are on a angle   how does that figure in ? 

Did the BSA ever break your foot?  mine had me limping a few times. Once I had to use crutches a few days. My mother used to bitch at me  why you want to ride that thing. all you ever do is hurt your self . It was a blast in the trails   when it was running.

[Admiral Akbar]

on wheel size      on the aluminum   outer wheel edge to the inter rise (drop) is about 1.57  the inside diameter is about 17.25 

on the steel  wheel edge  to rise is about 1.34   and inside diameter 17.9/16     

the hub is 4.67 from center to center of opposing spoke holes

I would think from this I would need shorter spokes. could i take a dye and run the thread a little farther down the spokes ?

Spokes are 8 3/8 in length

How are you getting the numbers?  Are you measuring from the bead?  What is 17.9/16?

the 17 9/16 is the inside diameter of the  wheel from the drop to drop.  There is about a 5/16 difference between the inside diameter of the  wheels , the spokes would need to be about 3/16 shorter? or am I thinking wrong.    But the spokes are on a angle   how does that figure in ? 

Did the BSA ever break your foot?  mine had me limping a few times. Once I had to use crutches a few days. My mother used to bitch at me  why you want to ride that thing. all you ever do is hurt your self . It was a blast in the trails   when it was running.

Your thinking is good.. I would figure 1/2 the difference.. The mentor I had back in the 1970, told me the easy way to figure spoke length differences was to use 1/2 the difference in diameters.. We used to buy blank spokes and cut to length with a hack saw, I had a cheap spoke roller that I connected  to a hand drill to roll spokes.   We were the first guys on Oahu to install 21 inch front wheels on Kawasaki 238 enduros.. Going from 19 to 21, just added an inch to the spoke.. The angle where the spoke hits the rim changes slightly but still close enough..

Nope, that one was pretty tame as by then I knew to make sure the advance springs were set right and to keep the bike in time.. I had a square barrel 441 that bit me once but not bad.. I had a 400CZ with a Femsa ignition that loved to kick back. Once so bad that I thought I broke my angle.. (didn't) Had MX boots on at the time.  They had the kick starter on the left side of the bike so you had to start the bike while standing to the left.. Later had heavy leather stitched to side of the boot by a saddle shop to help..

The round barrel was cool.. I got it as my final paycheck from a repair shop that went out of business.. IIRC to took me over a year to get the parts but at the time I moved to a dealership that sold Triump/BSA so I got a break in the new parts. Everything was in boxes as the motor and tranny needed rebuild.. Shop got it for the tear down labor.. It had ceriani shocks front and rear plus some strange cast aluminium swingarm that was X shaped.

[zoot]

I'll call Buchanan's monday see what they suggest . I tried to lace with these spokes and had trouble at the end  .just couldn't get the last few spokes in the holes on the rim. I'll check my spoke arrangement and practice on the steel wheel. don't want to scratch the aluminum one.

I had my Ducati's  all of them would kick back. ( 250 monza, 250 diana desmo,350 mark 111 desmo  The 350 desmo was the worst. It ripped a guys shoe off his foot. I don't like people asking to ride my bike so I tell them if you can start it you can ride. This guy ask me to ride so thats what I told him . he went to start it and it ripped the front of his shoe (hush puppys)off his foot, shoe lace was only thing that held it on. Then he found the  compression release so he knew enough  to use that . So after duck tapeing his shoe back together he got it started and went for a ride.

The shop had a 250 mark 11 racer and it was evel  to start . It had back setting foot pegs and you folded one up to work the kick starter . About the time you were through the stroke the thing would kick back the peg would fall and you had a broken top foot. It also had no valve springs so it was a push to start bike. but a very fun bike once it was running.

[Admiral Akbar]

Yeah.. Sportster spools are a PITA to lace. You have to install all the spokes in the hub at one time then get them oriented right before dropping the rim on.. Then you gotta be careful not let spoke end dig into the rims as you install nipples.. Easiest to set the crossover and do the nipples from one side to the other.. Other spools are so much easier.. Do the inside spokes first and just work your way around. Outside you can do 1 at a time.. I use to be able to lace and true a Honda wheel in about 45 minutes.. Reading less than 0.010 run-out..

I worked in a Honda / Maico / CZ shop where a guy traded an older 500cc maico for a 450.. 450s were hard to start but that old 500 was a killer.. I had some construction boots with nice soft soles that had an aluminum plate in the bottom to protect from nails.. The first time I tried to start the 500, I destroyed the boots. I suspect that the first kick bent the plate. Second kick kicked back, the end of kick starter tore the bottom boot and gouged the plate. Couple later the bike kicked back again. The lever split the plate and pushed it out through the front of the boot about 2 inches.. Bumped started it after that..

[BUBBIE]

Max,

I owned the Last year of the BSA 441 Victor's model (yellow and polished aluminum gas tank that was Magneto only)  Was that 65 or 66 ? and was that like your 441 B'zer.?..

Even that bike was a little difficult starting at times LOL      and Not pop in the bottle...

Off topic I Know...

signed....BUBBIE

[Admiral Akbar]

Max,

I owned the Last year of the BSA 441 Victor's model (yellow and polished aluminum gas tank that was Magneto only)  Was that 65 or 66 ? and was that like your 441 B'zer.?..

Even that bike was a little difficult starting at times LOL      and Not pop in the bottle...

Off topic I Know...

signed....BUBBIE

They weren't magneto.. The last year BSA did mags were on the preunit bikes.. Goldstars, A10s A7s..  The early 441s (B44s) were energy transfer like a Honda ATC90.  No battery on the early ones..  Wiring was pretty simple.. 3 coils in the alternator. One for coil/spark, one for brake/horn and one for head/tail/speedo.. No turn signals... If you blew the headlight all the bulbs on the circuit would go..

[zoot]

Max,

I owned the Last year of the BSA 441 Victor's model (yellow and polished aluminum gas tank that was Magneto only)  Was that 65 or 66 ? and was that like your 441 B'zer.?..

Even that bike was a little difficult starting at times LOL      and Not pop in the bottle...

Off topic I Know...

signed....BUBBIE

They weren't magneto.. The last year BSA did mags were on the preunit bikes.. Goldstars, A10s A7s..  The early 441s (B44s) were energy transfer like a Honda ATC90.  No battery on the early ones..  Wiring was pretty simple.. 3 coils in the alternator. One for coil/spark, one for brake/horn and one for head/tail/speedo.. No turn signals... If you blew the headlight all the bulbs on the circuit would go..

The Ducati mark 11 was like that , no battery just a alternator. Feebull yellow lights . not a bike you wanted to ride far at night.  It had a switch on the tail light you had to turn on if you blew a bulb. I think to balance the alternator load because other  lights blew and Motor quit running.