Stock vs. ported vs. aftermarket heads?

[BUBBIE]

Short version:

With the 26 cams, Stock heads, good valve job and using .030 head gaskets would do just fine and be easy on the PocketBook..

signed....BUBBIE

[PanHeadRed]

How well do ......... S&S Super Stock heads - do against ported stock heads?...... shipping my own heads to US ..... core fee will bring the prices more or less to the level of aftermarket heads.

Spending the same money as S&S super stock heads for a stock valved "street port" is just silly. 

[Matt C]

How well do ......... S&S Super Stock heads - do against ported stock heads?...... shipping my own heads to US ..... core fee will bring the prices more or less to the level of aftermarket heads.

Spending the same money as S&S super stock heads for a stock valved "street port" is just silly.

That IS stupid. Why even port the heads the heads using stock valves? Factory valves don't
have the right shape.

[Admiral Akbar]

How well do ......... S&S Super Stock heads - do against ported stock heads?...... shipping my own heads to US ..... core fee will bring the prices more or less to the level of aftermarket heads.

Spending the same money as S&S super stock heads for a stock valved "street port" is just silly.

That IS stupid. Why even port the heads the heads using stock valves? Factory valves don't
have the right shape.

Cuz Old Dewey used to do it? Big boys does it... I'm sure others have too.. Larry?    IIRC Dewey used to cut the stockers..

[Matt C]

You have a flow bench, try it and get back to us.

[CVOThunder]

This video shows you (OP) the difference in the earlier heads and 2006 on up (not sure if ALL 96 and 103 use the same heads) and how blocked up the earlier heads are.
Getting a later set of freshened up heads might be a cheaper way to go for your location and build. I see what looks to be an EGR port on the later heads that I don't see on the earlier head. Not sure if you have to block something off or take that into consideration.

Bummer that the metal desk sounds come through and maybe he's not banging things around as much as it seems. Guess I'm used to electronics and not tossing things around. The mic probably makes it sound worse than it really is. Not even sure why I brought it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTPg-8dHIVo&index=2&list=PL-BX_Pc-GUyQgaZhziXUs53jZFZZ4zXRa

You guys all know this so this is also for the OP. Too big a cam is similar to running to big of a carb. Like running a 750 cfm double pumper Holley on a otherwise stock 1968 Chevy 327ci with 210hp. Hey Mr. Wizard, why does my car fall on it's face (bog) when I punch it? This engine came with a 2 barrel carb and 500 cfm (guessing). The point I'm trying to make is there needs to be a systematic process involved. Too big a carb or cam just pushes the problem with air flow to another area like the heads or exhaust that won't flow. Then will the compression be too low or too high. Just bored I guess and like a chatter box. No one to talk shop with here, reading this forum is like therapy. 

[prodrag1320]

How well do ......... S&S Super Stock heads - do against ported stock heads?...... shipping my own heads to US ..... core fee will bring the prices more or less to the level of aftermarket heads.

Spending the same money as S&S super stock heads for a stock valved "street port" is just silly.

That IS stupid. Why even port the heads the heads using stock valves? Factory valves don't
have the right shape.

I agree,our street port uses 1.900 intakes,but even if we`re doing stock size valves,we use either AV&V or KIBBLEWHITE.the same size valve with a different degree tulip can make a world of difference.doing a "street port" or cleaning up the ports with basicly a stock (or even 5 angle valve job) & stock HD valves is not going to much over stock heads

[Admiral Akbar]

You have a flow bench, try it and get back to us.

Already have..

[clawdog60]

Flow them again after a few thousand miles of carbon buildup.

[Matt C]

You have a flow bench, try it and get back to us.

Already have..

Well...

[Matt C]

I guess if you just want to put out the lowest price on a port job, that would be a way to do
achieve the goal. Hell put stock springs, retainers and locks back in too. That makes them real
cheap.

No thanks! I send those people away...

If it's a stock low mileage head, ok. Performance? NO

[Matt C]

I don't even re-use factory guides. All my heads get bronze Kibblewhite or AV&V if I'm in a pinch.

[Finn]

I don't even try to pretend that I understand half of what you guys discuss above but since aftermarket valves such as Kibblewhite were mentioned that would be interesting to look at.

Are this type of aftermarket valves - Kibblewhite Black Diamond? - made to last and not hypersuperperformance with short lifespan?

I have no idea in what sort of condition my valves are but price of new valves is not bad at all. On the other hand the cam is just a TW26 so perhaps it does not have use for anything but stock valves.

[SP33DY]

Are this type of aftermarket valves - Kibblewhite Black Diamond? - made to last and not hypersuperperformance with short lifespan?

The Kibblewhite valves are very durable, better than stock. Also Ferrea, Manley, AV&V, are all improvements over stock, in flow, shape, and durability.

The OP wants to stay with his TW26 in a 95" w cast pistons.

First-rate multi-angle valve seat job, porting with premium valves, guides, springs etc. would give him a happy motor.
He'd be wasting his money on S&S SuperStock heads in this application.

[wfolarry]

How well do ......... S&S Super Stock heads - do against ported stock heads?...... shipping my own heads to US ..... core fee will bring the prices more or less to the level of aftermarket heads.

Spending the same money as S&S super stock heads for a stock valved "street port" is just silly.

That IS stupid. Why even port the heads the heads using stock valves? Factory valves don't
have the right shape.

Cuz Old Dewey used to do it? Big boys does it... I'm sure others have too.. Larry?    IIRC Dewey used to cut the stockers..

I just sent out a set of heads I ported using stock valves & guides. Put a set of SE springs on that he sent along. That's what he wanted. That's what he got.
I do a lot of work for dealers. Never replace guides in them. Never had any come back. I've seen stock guides with over 100,000 miles on them & they were still in great shape.
If I'm replacing a guide I use AV&V, valves AV&V, Manley & Kibblewhite. AV&V springs. I was at the Kibblewhite booth in Cinci this year chatting them up [like I do every year] & they were going to start making some oversize stem valves that I asked about. Good guys.
As far as power goes you ain't going to see any difference in a mild build using stock parts. I've done many 95's that made 100/100 with stock valves & a 37. Same with the 103's using the stock valves & a 54. More cam, more cubes I would do it different. Mild builds, touring builds I don't sweat it.
To each his own.

[CVOThunder]

Not sure if anyone has time to review the video series (the video I posted was #2) from Tatro Machine but if so, does his practices seem to be on target? I haven't used a valve machine since 75-76 and about my only question is when he hones the valve stems in the lathe. I'm thinking the black on the valve stem is a performance coating but maybe it's just a film that rapidly wears off anyway.    I can see where he wants to make sure everything is square and no defects.

Can hardly get through 1 or 2 videos. Seems as if You tube changed their way of presenting videos. It used to be send the whole thing at one shot and our admin guys are telling us now they are sending it through in 30 second increments and our slow ass network can't handle it.

[Barrett]

Are this type of aftermarket valves - Kibblewhite Black Diamond? - made to last and not hypersuperperformance with short lifespan?

The Kibblewhite valves are very durable, better than stock. Also Ferrea, Manley, AV&V, are all improvements over stock, in flow, shape, and durability.

The OP wants to stay with his TW26 in a 95" w cast pistons.

First-rate multi-angle valve seat job, porting with premium valves, guides, springs etc. would give him a happy motor.
He'd be wasting his money on S&S SuperStock heads in this application.

I paid $935. for S&S heads to my door.. There's not much of a wait and porting, valves, springs, guides and shipping both ways adds up quick.. I'll sell my old heads and recover some cost there also..

[prodrag1320]

in our street port heads,i don't change the guides (unless worn),for inexpensive headwork,for a mild build,they work very well,flowing in the 250-260 range @ 28". but never use stock HD valves and they leave with SERDI fully radiused seatwork

[PanHeadRed]

Are this type of aftermarket valves - Kibblewhite Black Diamond? - made to last and not hypersuperperformance with short lifespan?

The Kibblewhite valves are very durable, better than stock. Also Ferrea, Manley, AV&V, are all improvements over stock, in flow, shape, and durability.

The OP wants to stay with his TW26 in a 95" w cast pistons.

First-rate multi-angle valve seat job, porting with premium valves, guides, springs etc. would give him a happy motor.
He'd be wasting his money on S&S SuperStock heads in this application.

I paid $935. for S&S heads to my door.. There's not much of a wait and porting, valves, springs, guides and shipping both ways adds up quick.. I'll sell my old heads and recover some cost there also..

Your getting it, IIRC the OP said it was going to cost as much to port stock heads as buy S&S Super Stocks, immediately the posts came in to "mild, street " or "what ever" port.

My point is simple he's nuts to pay the same price as S&S Super Stock Heads for a head less then a S&S Super Stock. If there is a ported head equal to a S&S Super Stock Head no problem, but I think he'd be nuts to pay $1,000.00 US (or more) for a stock casting stock size valve head (most likely with Sportster Springs) regardless of the cam.

How come everyone assumes because you choose an under performing cam you should choose under performing heads?

Is that like a sales thing or something?

[prodrag1320]

who has porting for stock casting that cost 1000.00? (besides baisley),I sure as hell dont

[Matt C]

I'll use the stock guides and valves for a stock rebuild that the bike shops send me.
But for any kind of performance head, I throw that stock stuff in the scrap bin.

I have buckets full of stock valves. There's nothing wrong with them, I just prefer
one-piece stainless. I sleep better that way

As far as porting for "only a 26 cam"? A pocket port and great valve seats will always
pay big dividends. Even with a stock cam, a radius EX seat and a 6 angle IN
seat works wonders. 

[Matt C]

who has porting for stock casting that cost 1000.00? (besides baisley),I sure as hell dont

Me either.

[PanHeadRed]

who has porting for stock casting that cost 1000.00? (besides baisley),I sure as hell dont

They got to pay shipping, etc... both ways from Europe... Finland?. I think.

Besides, if you put in the time to create the same port and combustion chamber shapes and sizes as the super stocks, add 2" seats and valves, triple springs etc... you ought to be getting close.

[PanHeadRed]

I'll use the stock guides and valves for a stock rebuild that the bike shops send me.
But for any kind of performance head, I throw that stock stuff in the scrap bin.

I have buckets full of stock valves. There's nothing wrong with them, I just prefer
one-piece stainless. I sleep better that way

As far as porting for "only a 26 cam"? A pocket port and great valve seats will always
pay big dividends. Even with a stock cam, a radius EX seat and a 6 angle IN
seat works wonders.

The person is talking about S&S Super Stock Heads, he indicates he will have the equal amount of $  sending his heads to the USA for porting. IMO if you don't have a competing product your not helping him out, your just adding to his confusion....... If your confident your pocket product is equal to or a better performer/value than the S&S Super Stock product then keep going, you may be able to get his money.

[jrgreene1968]

I've wandered about the s&s super stock heads myself. The shipping plus the work does add up quick. I've read you need lots of cubes to run a 2" valve,.. Is that true?