Nikasil Cylinders

[aaa1988]

I am having a 107 Pro touring kit installed on my 2013 FLHX by Tman performance in the next week, he will also bore throttle body. My question is would there be any advantage of me upgrading to the Nikasil Cylinders? I know several years ago there were some issues with these but havent heard about them lately. I have total confidence in TR and am sure he would not sell products that didnt perform or last. Any info would be greatly appreciated

[PoorUB]

I for one do not consider Nikasil an upgrade. Cast iron sleeves will run 100,000 miles and are well proven.

[rigidorbust]

http://lnengineering.com/resources/2014/02/28/the-secrets-behind-nickies/

[strokerjlk]

I for one do not consider Nikasil an upgrade. Cast iron sleeves will run 100,000 miles and are well proven.

+1

[Raleigh111]

Nikasil
been doing it in snowmobiles and atvs for many years. makes total sense, lighter, harder then supermans head, need diamond hone to touch it, allows heat to transfer faster, porsche used it in there 911 air cooled engines. should last longer then any steel or cast iron cylinder in theory, tolerance can be tighter, in a aluminum cylinder on a 2 stroke that is water cooled nothing is better. if it is done right you will wear the pistons out (2 stroke sled running 8k rpm) in 7-15k miles, diamond hone the cylinders and replace pistons off you go again.
in a harley? i dont know if there is a huge advantage, much lower rpm, not water cooled, i thought about it myself but i think a good set of harley cylinders will go well past 50k miles and your replacing other things then anyways so?

2 stroke atv water cooled hell yes
harley, cool in theory but not needed at all.

just my 2 cents 

[Admiral Akbar]

I for one do not consider Nikasil an upgrade. Cast iron sleeves will run 100,000 miles and are well proven.

Thought you had a 107 that didn't make it that far.. 

[rbabos]

Nikasil
been doing it in snowmobiles and atvs for many years. makes total sense, lighter, harder then supermans head, need diamond hone to touch it, allows heat to transfer faster, porsche used it in there 911 air cooled engines. should last longer then any steel or cast iron cylinder in theory, tolerance can be tighter, in a aluminum cylinder on a 2 stroke that is water cooled nothing is better. if it is done right you will wear the pistons out (2 stroke sled running 8k rpm) in 7-15k miles, diamond hone the cylinders and replace pistons off you go again.
in a harley? i dont know if there is a huge advantage, much lower rpm, not water cooled, i thought about it myself but i think a good set of harley cylinders will go well past 50k miles and your replacing other things then anyways so?

2 stroke atv water cooled hell yes
harley, cool in theory but not needed at all.

just my 2 cents

Sums up how I feel about it. Key is having a stable platform to use nikasil. Not sure HD cyls qualify for that but great success with most other engines.
Ron

[turboprop]

Anyone ever put a set of Rev Performance (same ones sold by Tom Reiser) in a set of torque plates and measure the bore for roundness? The results are shocking. Very out of round, which is the root cause of the issues with the early nikasil cylinders. The ring pack got blamed, but it was the cylinder being out of round and the ring pack being too rigid to conform to the cylinder wall. The current ring packs being offered with the RP cylinders are more flexible. Still, the out or round issue is still there. Or maybe its not an issue. Nallin and RP screwed over allot of people, including me. Nallin has since left the V-Twin industry and is working in the oil rig industry for a company that makes green batteries.

[Raleigh111]

Anyone ever put a set of Rev Performance (same ones sold by Tom Reiser) in a set of torque plates and measure the bore for roundness? The results are shocking. Very out of round, which is the root cause of the issues with the early nikasil cylinders. The ring pack got blamed, but it was the cylinder being out of round and the ring pack being too rigid to conform to the cylinder wall. The current ring packs being offered with the RP cylinders are more flexible. Still, the out or round issue is still there. Or maybe its not an issue. Nallin and RP screwed over allot of people, including me. Nallin has since left the V-Twin industry and is working in the oil rig industry for a company that makes green batteries.

that brings up another issue. sending cylinders out to be re Nikasiled used to be very expensive and time consuming. we used to do our port work on the cylinders (snowmobiles with transfer ports and exhaust ports in the cylinder) being very carfull not to nick the Nikasil but sometimes it would flake off when porting around the exhaust port. when this would happen, send cylinder off to the place in wi that would re Nikasil them and it could take weeks and cost was high. not sure if the cost have came down much? if you had cylinders that were out of round it would not be a simple fast fix. i use to keep a few extra cylinders on the shelf when grass draggin sleds that were ported and ready to go, if you stuck a piston on the exhaust side the Nikasil was often dameged. if you were raising the exhaust port to any length you could almost count on sending them out after porting to be re done. this was all being done in the mid 90s for me and my grass draggin days are done, im sure prices have changed. sure was a lot of fun though, 200hp in 660ft on a 450lb machine that hooked  up, the old thundercat what one fast machine.

[PoorUB]

I for one do not consider Nikasil an upgrade. Cast iron sleeves will run 100,000 miles and are well proven.

Thought you had a 107 that didn't make it that far.. 

I doubt a 107" and Nikasil would go any farther.

The argument is Nikasil or cast, not engine size.

[strokerjlk]

Got a set of 117 ci R/P here off the bike from hell.
The bores look like orange peel . Weirdest "Potty mouth" I ever seen .

[rbabos]

Got a set of 117 ci R/P here off the bike from hell.
The bores look like orange peel . Weirdest "Potty mouth" I ever seen .

Cracked chrome process looks pretty freaky too but it's better then smooth chrome for cyls.
Ron

[No Cents]

  I'm not a Nikasil kind of guy...but can someone please explain to me how TR (Tman) has had such good success with using the Nikasil cylinders over the years? That one has always puzzled me how we don't hear of his Nikasil cylinders having issues.

Jim...what caused the cylinders to do that you think?
Is that Black Diamonds 117?

Ray

[turboprop]

  I'm not a Nikasil kind of guy...but can someone please explain to me how TR (Tman) has had such good success with using the Nikasil cylinders over the years? That one has always puzzled me how we don't hear of his Nikasil cylinders having issues.

Jim...what caused the cylinders to do that you think?
Is that Black Diamonds 117?

Ray

His (Tom Reisers's) cylinders are the RevPerformance cylinders. Tom didn't start selling RP cylinders until after Nallin left the company and they (RP) changed the ring pack.

[No Cents]

   Ed...I asked TR the question a few years ago at the Expo if RP made his cylinders. He quickly said "no"...with a frown.
He would not say who made his cylinders for him...just that they were made to his spec's...which he said was different from the RP cylinder spec's.
It seemed like a touchy subject to TR...so I let it go and I didn't ask anything else about them.

Ray

[turboprop]

Thats funny. Last year at the V-twin Expo the guys from RP and  senior rep from Drag Specialties both told me, quite proudly even, that RP was supplying cylinder kits to Tom Reiser and they were the same wether they were purchased direct from RP, through Drag or through Tom Reiser.

With full disclosure I will say that Nallin burned me real hard with those nikasil cylinders and in the past I have been very vocal in my extreme dislike for RP, Nallin and nikasil. The Drag Specialties rep is local to me and was at the time a new friend. None of our bs sessions at a local bar he was telling me the praises of nikasil when I stopped him and told him my story. Three sets, Nallin calling me a liar, flipping his booth at the V-Twin Expo, etc. Heck, I have even been banned several times from this site for telling my experiences with RP, Nallin and nikasil.

Today, I believe the issues with nikasil in a harley application have been worked out. Nallin has been banished from the industry, etc. All is well. Tom Reiser hasn't really done anything new, almost all of his cams are copies of existing designs. I have no doubt Tom wants to distance himself from RP, at least a little bit.

[FlaHeatWave]

I'm in a minority here as the 4.125 Rev Performance nikasils in the 117 have been fine for 24k mi. so far for around 18 months or so (maybe I've got the improved ring packs, don't know )... Use no oil from day one, no drama...

'Followed the RP prep / cleaning instructions to the letter...

'Never cared for the nikasils in the 2-stroke outboards, (more expensive / not as easy to repair / no oversize / easier to damage when porting), as a pressed in liner. Although on a HD (bolt on cylinders) I don't see that as much of an issue...

Ray, When Jim mentioned the "bike from hell", Black Diamond (Jeff) was the first to come to mind...

[Admiral Akbar]

Anyone ever put a set of Rev Performance (same ones sold by Tom Reiser) in a set of torque plates and measure the bore for roundness? The results are shocking. Very out of round, which is the root cause of the issues with the early nikasil cylinders. The ring pack got blamed, but it was the cylinder being out of round and the ring pack being too rigid to conform to the cylinder wall. The current ring packs being offered with the RP cylinders are more flexible. Still, the out or round issue is still there. Or maybe its not an issue. Nallin and RP screwed over allot of people, including me. Nallin has since left the V-Twin industry and is working in the oil rig industry for a company that makes green batteries.

Ring material was incorrect and the cylinder finish was wrong also.. At least my 4 1/4 bore cylinders were that  way.. I suspect that Nallin really didn't know what he as doing as far as cylinder finish goes.. Pistons wore down and the moly filled Hastings ring could rip the nikasil off the bore given enough cylinder pressure.. The cylinder new should look like a cast one with a few thousand miles on it.. Didn't know about the TQ plate issue tho ring wear (right ones) has been pretty consistent for me..

[Admiral Akbar]

Thats funny. Last year at the V-twin Expo the guys from RP and  senior rep from Drag Specialties both told me, quite proudly even, that RP was supplying cylinder kits to Tom Reiser and they were the same wether they were purchased direct from RP, through Drag or through Tom Reiser.

With full disclosure I will say that Nallin burned me real hard with those nikasil cylinders and in the past I have been very vocal in my extreme dislike for RP, Nallin and nikasil. The Drag Specialties rep is local to me and was at the time a new friend. None of our bs sessions at a local bar he was telling me the praises of nikasil when I stopped him and told him my story. Three sets, Nallin calling me a liar, flipping his booth at the V-Twin Expo, etc. Heck, I have even been banned several times from this site for telling my experiences with RP, Nallin and nikasil.

Today, I believe the issues with nikasil in a harley application have been worked out. Nallin has been banished from the industry, etc. All is well. Tom Reiser hasn't really done anything new, almost all of his cams are copies of existing designs. I have no doubt Tom wants to distance himself from RP, at least a little bit.

AFAIK they've always been different but are located close to each other... It may be that Millennium now owns RP..    My cylinders say Millennium on them but don't know if they cast their own or buy em and plate em..

Revolution Performance
A Millennium Technologies Company
1312 Pilgrim Road, Plymouth, WI 53073

Millennium Technologies, 1404 Pilgrim Road, Plymouth, WI 53073


http://www.mt-llc.com/

[noliners]

I have Rev perf cylinders on my 131.  My original set when Brian was there sucked .  5000 miles Sent them and Pistons back and they sent all new cyl. Pistons and rings . Wiseco.  I paid shipping only.  New stuff has been great no issues. Replaced one head gasket . 30,000 miles so far.  155 hp/ 153 sae RC cycles Dyno.  Wish this motor was in my new Roadglide .

[PoorUB]

My point of cast over Nikasil is there are millions of cast cylinders out there with zero issues, other than HD's early 110". Mention Nikasil and the horror stories come out from everyone. I would not take the chance in a daily driver.

[strokerjlk]

  I'm not a Nikasil kind of guy...but can someone please explain to me how TR (Tman) has had such good success with using the Nikasil cylinders over the years? That one has always puzzled me how we don't hear of his Nikasil cylinders having issues.

Jim...what caused the cylinders to do that you think?
Is that Black Diamonds 117?

Ray

Yeah it is Jeffs bike Lexi. i didn't snap any pics when i went by to see them. the guy doing the work has sent them out already, so I may not get any pics.
I am not sure what caused the damage. it was refitted with new rings once already, and the pistons were coated in an attempt to fix it .
work was all done at another shop and R/P was involved .
my buddy has her torn apart now. going back together with Axtell cylinders .

[prodrag1320]

I wont use nikasil cylinders,no way 

[calif phil]

My Drag rep has RP cylinders in his bike and has zero issues.  I would not use them.

[Sc00ter]

Thats funny. Last year at the V-twin Expo the guys from RP and  senior rep from Drag Specialties both told me, quite proudly even, that RP was supplying cylinder kits to Tom Reiser and they were the same wether they were purchased direct from RP, through Drag or through Tom Reiser.

With full disclosure I will say that Nallin burned me real hard with those nikasil cylinders and in the past I have been very vocal in my extreme dislike for RP, Nallin and nikasil. The Drag Specialties rep is local to me and was at the time a new friend. None of our bs sessions at a local bar he was telling me the praises of nikasil when I stopped him and told him my story. Three sets, Nallin calling me a liar, flipping his booth at the V-Twin Expo, etc. Heck, I have even been banned several times from this site for telling my experiences with RP, Nallin and nikasil.

Today, I believe the issues with nikasil in a harley application have been worked out. Nallin has been banished from the industry, etc. All is well. Tom Reiser hasn't really done anything new, almost all of his cams are copies of existing designs. I have no doubt Tom wants to distance himself from RP, at least a little bit.

AFAIK they've always been different but are located close to each other... It may be that Millennium now owns RP..    My cylinders say Millennium on them but don't know if they cast their own or buy em and plate em..

Revolution Performance
A Millennium Technologies Company
1312 Pilgrim Road, Plymouth, WI 53073

Millennium Technologies, 1404 Pilgrim Road, Plymouth, WI 53073


http://www.mt-llc.com/

Millennium Technologies/Revolution Performance - same building in Plymouth, Wisconsin.  South end of the building is called Millinnium Tech, north end is called Revolution Performance.  Founders and majority owners are Chris Marnie and Jim Hackl.  Brian Nallin was a minority partner and has been gone for several years...