Yet another head breather trap...

[N-gin]

Got mine mounted lil higher than heads and works better than mounting it lower. I get nothing but water and just a thin film of oil/water on the top layer.
Works great. I'm sure your results will be better than expected Max. Very nice piece you have there.

[N-gin]

So.... I don't want to brag or anything, but since people are showing their drag bikes with catch cans here's mine...





Wait wait... before a mod deletes this, it's on topic. Those little catch cans are made for racing minibikes, and are only about 20 bux. Might be perfect for a Harley. Also, look on top of the engine in the first pic... that's a fuel pump driven completely by impulses from a fitting on the intake manifold. Could one of those be used to purge the lines on a setup like Max's?

I have VERY good 15 foot times

edit... link to catch can.... http://www.bmikarts.com/Aluminum-Catch-Can-for-Seat-Strut_p_1886.html

Haha yep you can spend a lot of money on theses things. Got mine to go to 7k RPM purrs nicely around valve float.
An older pic before clutch upgrade. Also before the crank broke. Now forged.

[turboprop]

I think the venting is an emissions/EPA thing as to why the oil tank is not vented to the atmosphere.

It is really pretty simple. The oil pump pumps oil and air back to the tank. The tank is sealed so where does the air go, it goes back into the engine and is expelled though whatever vent system the engine has.

Some racers, and even warmed over street bikes will have a filter tee'd into the vent line between the tank and engine.

@John - the 30 psi at hot idle is somewhat typical with that pump. I assume you know about the S&S jets under the upper cap that canoe used to adjust the oil pressure. My red bike is running a 40 jet and has 30 Lbs at idle as well. Have been tinkering around with the idea of either soldering up a jet and drilling it to a smaller size or bleeding some of the pressure back into the tank.

@Max - Like many on this page, I too have a Jarz catch can rigged up on the red bike and noticed much less 'stuff' in the can after I vented the cap on the oil tank. This reenforces my hypothesis about the air flow from the tank to the engine and out the engine vents.

Will add that I think that with less air being expelled out the heads vents, that the oil being expelled through the head vents is reduced because there is less air flow to carry oil through the passageway and out the vent.  Again, my observations on several bikes supports this.

Are you running the one way valves in the heads or the cams case breather?  Evo motor or TC?  Makes a difference...

Yes to everything.

[Durwood]

I like it Max. It will work well IME.

Back in the Jr Dragster days I ran the hose from the case vent upward, over and then down to the puke tank.

With the 5/8" transparent hose I could see a small amount of oil hover at the vent exit as the air passed while idling and then watch the oil return to the crankcase upon shutting the engine down.

We only ran 14oz of oil and re-routing the hose in a upward direction helped to keep it in the case.
[attach=0]

[Admiral Akbar]

I think the venting is an emissions/EPA thing as to why the oil tank is not vented to the atmosphere.

It is really pretty simple. The oil pump pumps oil and air back to the tank. The tank is sealed so where does the air go, it goes back into the engine and is expelled though whatever vent system the engine has.

Some racers, and even warmed over street bikes will have a filter tee'd into the vent line between the tank and engine.

@John - the 30 psi at hot idle is somewhat typical with that pump. I assume you know about the S&S jets under the upper cap that canoe used to adjust the oil pressure. My red bike is running a 40 jet and has 30 Lbs at idle as well. Have been tinkering around with the idea of either soldering up a jet and drilling it to a smaller size or bleeding some of the pressure back into the tank.

@Max - Like many on this page, I too have a Jarz catch can rigged up on the red bike and noticed much less 'stuff' in the can after I vented the cap on the oil tank. This reenforces my hypothesis about the air flow from the tank to the engine and out the engine vents.

Will add that I think that with less air being expelled out the heads vents, that the oil being expelled through the head vents is reduced because there is less air flow to carry oil through the passageway and out the vent.  Again, my observations on several bikes supports this.

Are you running the one way valves in the heads or the cams case breather?  Evo motor or TC?  Makes a difference...

Yes to everything.

So you own a tevo?

[John/1]

On a 131 Merch evo what is the best way to vent the crankcase,there is 2 crankcase vent.I also have the top breathers in the rocker box.
John

[turboprop]

I think the venting is an emissions/EPA thing as to why the oil tank is not vented to the atmosphere.

It is really pretty simple. The oil pump pumps oil and air back to the tank. The tank is sealed so where does the air go, it goes back into the engine and is expelled though whatever vent system the engine has.

Some racers, and even warmed over street bikes will have a filter tee'd into the vent line between the tank and engine.

@John - the 30 psi at hot idle is somewhat typical with that pump. I assume you know about the S&S jets under the upper cap that canoe used to adjust the oil pressure. My red bike is running a 40 jet and has 30 Lbs at idle as well. Have been tinkering around with the idea of either soldering up a jet and drilling it to a smaller size or bleeding some of the pressure back into the tank.

@Max - Like many on this page, I too have a Jarz catch can rigged up on the red bike and noticed much less 'stuff' in the can after I vented the cap on the oil tank. This reenforces my hypothesis about the air flow from the tank to the engine and out the engine vents.

Will add that I think that with less air being expelled out the heads vents, that the oil being expelled through the head vents is reduced because there is less air flow to carry oil through the passageway and out the vent.  Again, my observations on several bikes supports this.

Are you running the one way valves in the heads or the cams case breather?  Evo motor or TC?  Makes a difference...

Yes to everything.

So you own a tevo?

Not sure what a tevo is. I have several bikes, mostly evo but also own a TC or two.

[hrdtail78]

On a 131 Merch evo what is the best way to vent the crankcase,there is 2 crankcase vent.I also have the top breathers in the rocker box.
John

When you say 2 crank case vents.  Are the right next to each other?  One is for a softail style application the other is for FXR.  Frame cross member will dictate which one is going to be used.  I suggest setting it up as a bottom breather only, first.  Your pump will help with oil carry over.

[John/1]

On a 131 Merch evo what is the best way to vent the crankcase,there is 2 crankcase vent.I also have the top breathers in the rocker box.
John

When you say 2 crank case vents.  Are the right next to each other?  One is for a softail style application the other is for FXR.  Frame cross member will dictate which one is going to be used.  I suggest setting it up as a bottom breather only, first.  Your pump will help with oil carry over.

Yes they are next to each other in a fxr,I vent them just below the frame both with 3/8 line and small filters.Top breathers are umbrella valves in rocker boxes oil pump is a Pro Flow.


Added:My rocker boxes are 2 pieces by UPM

[dynaglide]

Some racers, and even warmed over street bikes will have a filter tee'd into the vent line between the tank and engine.

@Max - Like many on this page, I too have a Jarz catch can rigged up on the red bike and noticed much less 'stuff' in the can after I vented the cap on the oil tank. This reenforces my hypothesis about the air flow from the tank to the engine and out the engine vents.

Will add that I think that with less air being expelled out the heads vents, that the oil being expelled through the head vents is reduced because there is less air flow to carry oil through the passageway and out the vent.  Again, my observations on several bikes supports this.

Just a regular 'ole vent, or can you use a PCV valve to make sure air is only expelled from the tank, but none can be drawn back into the tank? 

Edited to add:  reason I ask is that a) I once tried venting the oil cap on my Dyna, and found significantly more oil coming from the head breathers afterwards; and b) without it being vented, the oil cap is always tough to pull from the filler neck, feels like I'm fighting against mild suction in the tank.
So my conclusion is that there's at least a partial vacuum being pulled in the system (case/oil tank) with the current stock venting system, and anything which allows air to be re-introduced is not a good thing.  So would venting the cap with a PCV valve actually increase the amount of vacuum being pulled?    That would be a good thing, but don't know if it would actually happen...

[Admiral Akbar]

I think the venting is an emissions/EPA thing as to why the oil tank is not vented to the atmosphere.

It is really pretty simple. The oil pump pumps oil and air back to the tank. The tank is sealed so where does the air go, it goes back into the engine and is expelled though whatever vent system the engine has.

Some racers, and even warmed over street bikes will have a filter tee'd into the vent line between the tank and engine.

@John - the 30 psi at hot idle is somewhat typical with that pump. I assume you know about the S&S jets under the upper cap that canoe used to adjust the oil pressure. My red bike is running a 40 jet and has 30 Lbs at idle as well. Have been tinkering around with the idea of either soldering up a jet and drilling it to a smaller size or bleeding some of the pressure back into the tank.

@Max - Like many on this page, I too have a Jarz catch can rigged up on the red bike and noticed much less 'stuff' in the can after I vented the cap on the oil tank. This reenforces my hypothesis about the air flow from the tank to the engine and out the engine vents.

Will add that I think that with less air being expelled out the heads vents, that the oil being expelled through the head vents is reduced because there is less air flow to carry oil through the passageway and out the vent.  Again, my observations on several bikes supports this.

Are you running the one way valves in the heads or the cams case breather?  Evo motor or TC?  Makes a difference...

Yes to everything.

So you own a tevo?

Not sure what a tevo is. I have several bikes, mostly evo but also own a TC or two.

Do have you tried your vent thing on a twincam?

[John/1]

Hey Max t-vo is a new product from ultima check it out
http://www.ultimaproducts.com/tvo_engine.html


Tell what you think

[Nowhereman]

Hey Max t-vo is a new product from ultima check it out
http://www.ultimaproducts.com/tvo_engine.html


Tell what you think

Yes it is and it's a very nice design.

[turboprop]

I think the venting is an emissions/EPA thing as to why the oil tank is not vented to the atmosphere.

It is really pretty simple. The oil pump pumps oil and air back to the tank. The tank is sealed so where does the air go, it goes back into the engine and is expelled though whatever vent system the engine has.

Some racers, and even warmed over street bikes will have a filter tee'd into the vent line between the tank and engine.

@John - the 30 psi at hot idle is somewhat typical with that pump. I assume you know about the S&S jets under the upper cap that canoe used to adjust the oil pressure. My red bike is running a 40 jet and has 30 Lbs at idle as well. Have been tinkering around with the idea of either soldering up a jet and drilling it to a smaller size or bleeding some of the pressure back into the tank.

@Max - Like many on this page, I too have a Jarz catch can rigged up on the red bike and noticed much less 'stuff' in the can after I vented the cap on the oil tank. This reenforces my hypothesis about the air flow from the tank to the engine and out the engine vents.

Will add that I think that with less air being expelled out the heads vents, that the oil being expelled through the head vents is reduced because there is less air flow to carry oil through the passageway and out the vent.  Again, my observations on several bikes supports this.

Are you running the one way valves in the heads or the cams case breather?  Evo motor or TC?  Makes a difference...

Yes to everything.

So you own a tevo?

Not sure what a tevo is. I have several bikes, mostly evo but also own a TC or two.

Do have you tried your vent thing on a twincam?

This not my venting, but yes I have.

[turboprop]

Some racers, and even warmed over street bikes will have a filter tee'd into the vent line between the tank and engine.

@Max - Like many on this page, I too have a Jarz catch can rigged up on the red bike and noticed much less 'stuff' in the can after I vented the cap on the oil tank. This reenforces my hypothesis about the air flow from the tank to the engine and out the engine vents.

Will add that I think that with less air being expelled out the heads vents, that the oil being expelled through the head vents is reduced because there is less air flow to carry oil through the passageway and out the vent.  Again, my observations on several bikes supports this.

Just a regular 'ole vent, or can you use a PCV valve to make sure air is only expelled from the tank, but none can be drawn back into the tank? 

Edited to add:  reason I ask is that a) I once tried venting the oil cap on my Dyna, and found significantly more oil coming from the head breathers afterwards; and b) without it being vented, the oil cap is always tough to pull from the filler neck, feels like I'm fighting against mild suction in the tank.
So my conclusion is that there's at least a partial vacuum being pulled in the system (case/oil tank) with the current stock venting system, and anything which allows air to be re-introduced is not a good thing.  So would venting the cap with a PCV valve actually increase the amount of vacuum being pulled?    That would be a good thing, but don't know if it would actually happen...

I have seen it done a couple of different ways.

On my red bike, the system is a one way vent in the line between the case and the oil tank. The cap is vented to a small filter. The one way valve is oriented to allow air to leave the case but not return.

On my black bike, the stem is the same with the addition of a second, one-way valve between the cap on the oil tank and the filter. The valve is oriented to allow air to flow from the tank to the filter.

On a local friends TC126, it runs the case vent into a 'T' fitting. One side goes to one way valve and a filter, the other side goes to the oil tank. He also runs a vented cap with a one way valve and filter. The head vents on this bike are run through one way valves, one of the lines goes to a catch can, the other line goes into the airbox. He sees almost nothing in the catch can.

My friend has done a bunch of experimenting to come up with this setup. This summer we rode a few states away, at the end of the trip he opened the petcock on the catch can and few drops of oil and a little bit of water came out. I have never noticed any signs of oil mist around either of the filters or under the airbox.

[hrdtail78]

That's awful strange.  Most of the time water drains out of any sump first. 

[dynaglide]

thanks, Turboprop.  What is he using for a one-way valve?

[kd]

thanks, Turboprop.  What is he using for a one-way valve?

Here's a couple of previous threads that robertg shows his set-up. The first has one way (pcv) valves and the second is what appears to be the most recent version. Only he can explain why, but I notice he went away from the "one way valve" and now seems to go straight to a vent filter.


http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,58374.msg627234.html#msg627234

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,88719.0.html

[dynaglide]

Yes, but...

1.  Don't need to put a one-way valve at the heads, because the umbrella valves perform that function.
2.  The tank venting is where it would make sense to use a one-way valve, if needed.  Are all PCV valves the same in terms of how much pressure it takes to open them, etc?

[kd]

If you read the posts from rbabos in the attachments you will see his read on that. The seats are not positive and allow some bleed to the valve when in use.

[turboprop]

That's awful strange.  Most of the time water drains out of any sump first.

Quit being so nit picky.

I just reread my post and do not see how anyone could take from my post that I said or implied that either fluid came out of the catch can first.

[hrdtail78]

he opened the petcock on the catch can and few drops of oil and a little bit of water came out.

That's awful strange.  Most of the time water drains out of any sump first.

Quit being so nit picky.

I just reread my post and do not see how anyone could take from my post that I said or implied that either fluid came out of the catch can first.

I just read what you wrote and I found it strange.  I mentioned it was strange.  If I read it wrong, you typed it wrong, if you weren't clear enough, if my compensation skill are bad....... Seems easy enough to straighten out.  It really isn't a big deal.  Have a good day.

[BigNorm1]

This thread is starting to look like mixed oil and water.... 

[Nowhereman]

This thread is starting to look like mixed oil and water.... 

Friggen soap opera again.