'01 RoadKing not pulling hard to redline

[Hossamania]

While doing a hard run through the gears, I was going past 5000 rpm's, when the motor seemed to sit down and not pull as hard to redline. It actually struggled to get there. Normally, it pulls hard right to the limiter. I figured the motor had finally let go, burned a valve, something.
But, the motor runs great, still makes good power right to about 5000+ rpm, then sits down like the timing has retarded or something. This was last year, so it has quite few miles on it since. Runs great pulls hard like normal, just loses power the last 500 to 1000 rpm's. (No tach)

'01 RK
95", SE flattops and cylinders
44 CV carb
DTT ignition, set 1,2, 6100. (Maybe 2,1, can't remember)
Heads by Eagle Jim
Andrews N55G, gear drive cams
"B" lifters
SE adjustable push rods
100,000 miles on motor, 75,000 on top end

Could this be caused by a bad MAP sensor?
Bad DTT?
I will check that the carb throttle body is opening all the way, but the way it was noticed, while WOT and then losing power, I don't think the carb is it. I have not done a compression test yet, but the way it runs, I don't know if it is down.
Thanks for any suggestions.

[Ohio HD]

I run a CCP test, easy and quick, might tell you something. That's a bunch of miles.

[Hossamania]

Yeah, they are all gentle, easy going miles...     

I will do a test maybe today. Put it off for quite a few months, maybe don't want to know.

[Admiral Akbar]

If the MAp sensor fails it, typically sets the output to 4.5 volts (100 kpa) and doesn't do anything with pressure.. This means the motor will appear sluggish but wide open throttle will behave fine.    I doubt it can cause the issue you see unless it was thinking the pressure was lower and advancing the timing.. Then you get pinging..

I think that you probably have a hole in the carb diaphragm from the symptoms.   Could also be sumping or weak valve spring.. Exhaust sound should change if valve spring..

[BUBBIE]

  

Could you have Gained Weight over the Winter months... 

just ask'n so don't  me...

signed....BUBBIE

[Hossamania]

 

Could you have Gained Weight over the Winter months... 

just ask'n so don't  me...

signed....BUBBIE

Um, yes. But this started last fall when I was WAY thinner!

[Hossamania]

No, exhaust note hasn't changed. It would be great if it is the carb. Sumping would suck. I originally figured something with the heads. Which would also suck. But, it runs great, same low and midrange power, no strange noises.
Troubleshooting to follow. Still damn cold here though, but got out for about 70 miles yesterday.

[BUBBIE]

Getting out on the DD7 for the first time Hoss... 70* here before noon (SE Az.)...... I might have to have My Leathers on tho... and a tow truck follow... 

Coyote gave me VERBAL instruction... Think I followed it...

Within the Subject of you  Post:

Check you ccc, Like said above?
IT Will tell you a bunch...

I usually do a rebuild of Bore n Rings/valves by them miles you have. But what do I Know?  

signed....BUBBIE

[Hossamania]

Checked compression. Motor wasn't real warm, ran about 3 or 4 minutes, 35 degrees out.
168 rear
167 front

Did not do a wet test.
I will be pulling the carb apart soon.

[kd]

Your just getting used to it Hoss. There's still time for a 177 or 124 kit before spring in Minnesota.  Tell the wife with that many miles it's due for maintenance.

[Hossamania]

I've kind of been looking at the 124, a lot. But, this one may have to wait a bit. She just told me to set the Ultra up the way I want it.
She's a good girl!

[Ohio HD]

That compression is kinda low.

[Hossamania]

It is, but at least it's equal. The motor wasn't real warm, my gauge was pretty cold, and not real expensive, a Mityvac brand. Maybe the cams don't build a lot either, not really sure. The motor may be a bit tired though.
I just know I could feel the power go away on a run, instantly. I was kind of hoping the MAP sensor could cause it. I may swap in the stock ignition for the DTT, to eliminate that as a problem. And, pull the carb apart and check it.

[Ohio HD]

 

[FXDBI]

Checked compression. Motor wasn't real warm, ran about 3 or 4 minutes, 35 degrees out.
168 rear
167 front

Did not do a wet test.
I will be pulling the carb apart soon.

Did you check the math on Bigboyz calculator?   It says 168 for that cam using .030 head gasket and 85cc heads.  Bob

[Buffalo]

A long with the diaphragm like Max suggested, check the vacuum line to the petcock if your still using the stock one. Might be a good idea to check the float level, set too low can cause a lean condition at higher throttle settings. fwiw Buffalo

[PoorUB]

Checked compression. Motor wasn't real warm, ran about 3 or 4 minutes, 35 degrees out.
168 rear
167 front

Did not do a wet test.
I will be pulling the carb apart soon.

Did you check the math on Bigboyz calculator?   It says 168 for that cam using .030 head gasket and 85cc heads.  Bob

I looked there too, the compression is right in line with Big Boyz so I would be looking elsewhere.

[Hossamania]

Checked compression. Motor wasn't real warm, ran about 3 or 4 minutes, 35 degrees out.
168 rear
167 front

Did not do a wet test.
I will be pulling the carb apart soon.

Did you check the math on Bigboyz calculator?   It says 168 for that cam using .030 head gasket and 85cc heads.  Bob

I looked there too, the compression is right in line with Big Boyz so I would be looking elsewhere.

Sweet! Who would have guessed that this motor might still be kind of healthy? That lets me look elsewhere.
I'm running a Pingel petcock, so no vacuum line. I will check for other vacuum leaks. Thanks everyone for the help. I will let you know what I find as I work through this.

[Ohio HD]

Well, I was going by the assumption that the heads would have been machined for more compression with those cams.   

[Trouble]

 "And, pull the carb apart and check it."

Pull the carb apart and CLEAN it.
Don't forget about winter fuels=sucky performance

[Hossamania]

"And, pull the carb apart and check it."

Pull the carb apart and CLEAN it.
Don't forget about winter fuels=sucky performance

Yup, but this has been running non-oxy all winter. And this started last summer. The carb will get a good going over, I want to change the needle anyway, I've been testing different ones, I think I've got those figured out now.

[bigfoot5x]

Do you have a fuel filter on it? First symptom of a filter starting to clog is loss of high rpm power. As it clogs up, the power loss starts to come on at lower and lower rpm. I have lots of experience with this as old Chevy's with Quadrajet did this all the time because the fuel filter  was so small. You have a classic symptom. It idles fine and runs great until the last 500 or 1000 rpm.

[Hossamania]

The only filter is the petcock screen. I will pull it and check it. Good call.

[86fxwg]

The only filter is the petcock screen. I will pull it and check it. Good call.

Hoss...check the tank for the sealer peeling off.


86

[Hossamania]

The only filter is the petcock screen. I will pull it and check it. Good call.

Hoss...check the tank for the sealer peeling off.


86

Will do, that would suck.

[86fxwg]

easy check on the slide. Blow shop air acrooss the large port on the inlet of the carb. if it raises all the way & holds chances are ur slide diaghram is good.


86

[Hossamania]

Not sure which port that is. Do I blow air into it, or across it?
The carb should come apart anyway, I want to change the needle.
I am leaning toward it being a fuel issue over an ignition issue. At least I hope so, easier for me to repair.

[86fxwg]

Not sure which port that is. Do I blow air into it, or across it?
The carb should come apart anyway, I want to change the needle.
I am leaning toward it being a fuel issue over an ignition issue. At least I hope so, easier for me to repair.

The eye brow hoss over the venturi blow air across it.
Hold throttle wide open,u will see the slide raise if it come all the way up ur slide diaphragm is OK.
Anyone got a video or picture to help hoss out on this.
If not il post after work.

86

[Hossamania]

Not sure which port that is. Do I blow air into it, or across it?
The carb should come apart anyway, I want to change the needle.
I am leaning toward it being a fuel issue over an ignition issue. At least I hope so, easier for me to repair.

The eye brow hoss over the venturi blow air across it.
Hold throttle wide open,u will see the slide raise if it come all the way up ur slide diaphragm is OK.
Anyone got a video or picture to help hoss out on this.
If not il post after work.

86

Very good, I know what you're talking about. Thanks

[Hossamania]

Well, Max nailed it in #3. Thank you Max. Shoulda listened to you right away!  The vacuum piston diaphragm is ripped right at the plastic. Interestingly enough, there was a discussion a few months ago about the burn marks that always turn up on the slide where the diaphragm meets the plastic. Well, that's where it ripped, right after I said they all do that I've never had a problem.

So that is the good news, cheap, easy fix.

The bad news, it is an obsolete part, CV44 carb.

Anybody know where a guy can find  part # 27552-99?

[Hossamania]

Oh, and will the slide for the CV40 work? Different part number, I know, but heard it might.

[Hossamania]

Oh, and will the slide for the CV40 work? Different part number, I know, but heard it might.

Nope, according to CV performance.

[Ohio HD]

I don't know if you can get that at all.   

           S&S Super?   

[Hossamania]

Well, the SnS does look,pretty cool!

I was hoping this would cost $50. Not $500.

[Hossamania]

Will a Mikuni 45 fit on a SE 44 intake? You know, just in case?

[Admiral Akbar]

Will a Mikuni 45 fit on a SE 44 intake? You know, just in case?

Yep.. You need to add an adapter from the carb to SE backing plate..  A 42 will also work if you can get the rubber seal that adapts the HSR42 to the SE manifold.. Used to come in the manifold kit IIRC.

[Ohio HD]

Well, the SnS does look,pretty cool!

I was hoping this would cost $50. Not $500.

Yeah, I get that, them damn decimal places....   

[rigidthumper]

 You may be able to get a regular diaphragm from any CV40 and carefully remove and transfer the rubber to your slide- use dish soap as lube so it doesn't tear.

[FSG]

Oh, and will the slide for the CV40 work? Different part number, I know, but heard it might.

Yes it will.

Carburetor Rebuild Kit Part No. 27554-99 is for both the CV40 and the CV44

and the Vacuum Piston P/N 27552-99 is included in the kit.


http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_us/media/downloads/service/isheets/-j01696.pdf

[Hossamania]

Oh, and will the slide for the CV40 work? Different part number, I know, but heard it might.

Yes it will.

Carburetor Rebuild Kit Part No. 27554-99 is for both the CV40 and the CV44

and the Vacuum Piston P/N 27552-99 is included in the kit.


http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_us/media/downloads/service/isheets/-j01696.pdf

So the slide isn't available, but the rebuild kit is? I will try and find one.

[Hossamania]

You may be able to get a regular diaphragm from any CV40 and carefully remove and transfer the rubber to your slide- use dish soap as lube so it doesn't tear.

I'd be willing to give that a try.

[Hossamania]

Oh, and will the slide for the CV40 work? Different part number, I know, but heard it might.

Yes it will.

Carburetor Rebuild Kit Part No. 27554-99 is for both the CV40 and the CV44

and the Vacuum Piston P/N 27552-99 is included in the kit.


http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_us/media/downloads/service/isheets/-j01696.pdf

So the slide isn't available, but the rebuild kit is? I will try and find one.

Seems to also be obsolete.

[Hossamania]

I will take my slide to the dealer tomorrow and see how it matches to the  40.

[FSG]

So the slide isn't available, but the rebuild kit is? I will try and find one.

just get a CV40 from ebay and pull the slide from it, I've a couple here but I'm too far away for it to be worth sending

[Hossamania]

So the slide isn't available, but the rebuild kit is? I will try and find one.

just get a CV40 from ebay and pull the slide from it, I've a couple here but I'm too far away for it to be worth sending

I've still got my old 40, but I'm going to leave that unmolested. I will just pick up a new slide tomorrow.
Thank you to everyone for your help. I will update my progress.

[05fatboy95]

Hoss, if you don't find it let me know, I have a couple partial rebuild kits laying around in the garage. I will dig through them and see if I have one for u.

[Hossamania]

Hoss, if you don't find it let me know, I have a couple partial rebuild kits laying around in the garage. I will dig through them and see if I have one for u.

Thanks , do you have 44 slides maybe? I can get the 40 slide, going to compare it to my 44 slide, hopefully close enough.

[05fatboy95]

I will dig through it all tonight, if so its yours but idk until I look.

[PoorUB]

Wow, 15 year old bike and simple parts are no longer available!? Makes you wonder!

[koko3052]

Hoss, there's a guy in Fl that sells just the diaphrams, I've bought a few for spares & of course FSG is correct, the 40 & 44's are the same. Sorry but I can't remember his company name, but google is your friend.

[Hossamania]

I did Google the part number, but the few sites I checked didn't have them. I will let you know what I find out with the 40 slide.

[wolf_59]

http://cv-performance.com
maybe these guys can help

[jbexeter]

CVK carb on the kawa vulcan is basically the same carb, I suspect many of the kelhin parts will work, diapgragms for sure

[Hossamania]

Picked up a new 40 slide yesterday, seems to match right up. I will do a couple final measurements, but I think I'm good to go. It will be in in a few hours, I will report back on how it works.
Again, thanks to everybody offering help and parts.

[Breeze]

Hoss; Maybe this link will help.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=keihin+cv+diaphragms+for+sale&tbm=shop

[Hossamania]

Hoss; Maybe this link will help.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=keihin+cv+diaphragms+for+sale&tbm=shop

Interesting. Can't replace just the diaphragm because my plastic mount is quite burnt and damaged.
The full slide that is listed is the right number, says it is a replacement for the slide I picked up, for the 40.
I think I've got it licked, let you know soon.

[Hossamania]

Success! The 40 slide works great, fit fine, ran really good. I forgot how quickly this thing comes up on the limiter.
Thanks everyone.

[motorhogman]

Success! The 40 slide works great, fit fine, ran really good. I forgot how quickly this thing comes up on the limiter.
Thanks everyone.

That's great !   I have to watch what you do here...My 01 will probably end up with a lot of similar repairs

[Hossamania]

Hogman, which model do you have? If it is an FLH, Touring model, keep an eye on the swingarm, they have a tendency to break at the pulley. In '02, this was redesigned.

[motorhogman]

Hogman, which model do you have? If it is an FLH, Touring model, keep an eye on the swingarm, they have a tendency to break at the pulley. In '02, this was redesigned.

2001 FLHT... Yep..You warned me about that a while ago when I was chasing a vibration.. I checked it real close last spring when I did the Swing arm isolator rubber mounts.. I'll be looking at it again soon.. New tire is here and that will be going on soon...

[motorhogman]

easy check on the slide. Blow shop air acrooss the large port on the inlet of the carb. if it raises all the way & holds chances are ur slide diaghram is good.


86

How many PSI ?   My compressor is at about 125 psi...Is that to much to blow in there to check slide operation?

I was thinking I'd check mine while the AF is off, just don't want to over do it and rip that diaphragm..

[86fxwg]

No

[motorhogman]

No

Thanx

[86fxwg]

No

Thanx

Just slowly squeeze theair nozzle across the eyebrow slide sshould raise & hold as it slides up,goes up & drops or can't hold a steddy height the diaphragm may be compromised.

86


86

[berserker]

The slide from a CV40 fit the CV44.  Did the diaphragm also fit?

[berserker]

Some posts mentioned eyebrow.  I thought this was some kind of typo.  But at the top of the carb is upside down smile about 1", or an eyebrow.  Watching videos, some have holes.

So far can of air was not enough.  I didn't try with air compressor.    But it goes up and down nice.  And diaphram looks ok.

A mechanic friend of mine said sometimes on older bikes the slide gets cockeyed a jams.  Only has 50k miles.  I did replace diaphragm a couple years ago.

I realize this is an old thread.  But I discovered it with google and someone else will too

I have other bikes to ride.  So I am also going to order some cap head allen to replace screws.  I do have JIS screwdriver.

[Hossamania]

The slide from a CV40 fit the CV44.  Did the diaphragm also fit?

Yes

[berserker]

Took my 2001 CV44 carb with a CV40 slide and diaphragm from J&P today, ran great.

I am going to have my old one. If I ever had to I might be able to sand the marks out.

I added allen cap screws thinking it may be easier to get bowl or top off with all key than a screw driver.  Put a little anti seize on the bolt.

Was not supper happy with the kit I got, bolts were kinda long.

I also blew air in the eye brow/frown and top of front of carb and got slide to raise. I had to open throttle to get to raise.  I did see some videos on line where they did not open throttle.  So maybe I was just to sheepish with air.

[Hossamania]

Quote:
"I am going to save my old one. If I ever had to I might be able to sand the marks out."

Don't bother, just buy new. Yours likely has a pin hole that was causing issues, not the marks. If you put a bright light behind the diaphragm and gently stretch it out, you'll probably see the hole.

[berserker]

I was getting swoosh noise when lifting slide.  Do you think I would get that with hole? 

reason I am saving, it seems harder to get carb parts.  But this for $40, I just replaced it.

[Hossamania]

I was getting swoosh noise when lifting slide.  Do you think I would get that with hole?

reason I am saving, it seems harder to get carb parts.  But this for $40, I just replaced it.

It's possible to still "swoosh", as it is a very small pin hole or tear, just enough to come into play with high vacuum.