Rocker clutch adjustment

[easyricer]

Ok I had no luck on the Shovel page, maybe someone over here can help me out. I got a tank shifter and rocker clutch on my 76 shovel and I think I have it adjusted wrong so I broke my throw out finger on the tranny. Can any of you guys guide me in the right direction?
EASY

[Pynzo]

What kind of clutch arm is coming off you're kicker cover? Are you using footboards? Also- did you replace the wafer style throwout bearing and finger setup with the early style ball bearing setup?

[CraigArizona85248]

Pynzo has probably hit on your problem.  If you are using the short clutch release arm that came with your shovel, you are going to get too much movement with your rocker clutch.  I can see this leading to broken fingers on the clutch release shaft.  The correct release arm for a rocker clutch if very long so that when you move the rocker clutch the clutch release shaft doesn't twist as far as it would if are running a shorter release arm.

-Craig

[Little Al]

humm, I think I might be hijacking this thread shortly. put my oil tank on last night and I see some problems with clearance & travel of my arm and rocker clutch. gonna get back to that over the weekend after I finish my oil lines.

my problem seems to be that the arm doesn't go back far enough without hitting the bottom of the battery tray before it starts to move the pushrod

[chris haynes]

Adjust your clutch as described in your service manual. You will need a machinists ruler to do it correctly. You were told what to do on the Shovelhead board. You just choose to ignore it.

[MBSKEAM]

put my oil tank on last night and I see some problems with clearance & travel of my arm and rocker clutch

I bet your arm is a AM arm, the bends are not correct, had to heat mine with a torch and bend it to match a stock one I borrowed.
used to be chromed now its painted black....LOL

mbskeam

[chris haynes]

What is an AM arm?

[iiggii]

You just choose to ignore it.------whoa man

[CraigArizona85248]

What is an AM arm?

I think he means After Market...

[Little Al]

Mbskeam,

It turns out it's just fine. I got the clutch and primary all completed tonight. even put the floorboards on so I could get the rocker in the right position for good operation. it all worked out fine and the clutch action seems fine from a visual. of course time will tell once I have her running, lol

The only thing i had to do out of the ordinary was I had to cut down the rod from the pedal pivot to the arm and thread the shaft about another 2 inches so I could get it adjusted right. The rod and rocker are both aftermarket, the clutch arm, I believe, is oem. either way the whole thing seems good.

the only thing that surprised me a bit was to get it to work properly when I adjusted the pushrod screw after seating it I had to back off only 1/2 a turn before locking it down. anything else just didn't seem to move the plate enough to push the plate out enough to release the clutch. on my shovel back off about 3/4 of a turn and on my TC's I back off about a full turn. no big deal, just a little curious to me.

[Pynzo]

You probably had a mousetrap rod and that's why it was too long.

[easyricer]

Adjust your clutch as described in your service manual. You will need a machinists ruler to do it correctly. You were told what to do on the Shovelhead board. You just choose to ignore it.

If i HAD the manual I wouldn't be asking here now would I? I asked for the procedure to adjust it not for a bunch of flack about my ignorance of what I got here.
Now on to those who actually tried to help. I got rid of the wafer bearing and used the ball bearing one off of my other bike. The longer throw out arm that I have won't fit the aluminum primary, it's for the tin primary. It's kick and electric start. I added the kicker because the electric starter was frozen and I needed to get that motor turning before it froze up. With this rocker clutch "kit" I got it should work with the shorter factory arm because it has an adapter to move the rod mount point to the pivot bolt instead of on the side of the rocker pedal. It gives it a much shorter throw. 
As with alot of parts from swap meets these things don't come with instructions! That's where those who been there done that come in handy.

this is a pic of what I got goin on here. Click it and it will take you to the folder that has all the rest of the pics.
I can shorten the throw of that adapter by a little more if I need to. I have access to some of the finest welding and fabrication tools money can buy.
SO with out a bunch of flack about the damned manual (it's not like it really will apply to this bike in the first place!) I'm open to any suggestions before I break the other two throw out fingers I have here.
EASY

[Pzokes]

easyricer,
There are  four arms that I know of.  1. The original mousetrap/footclutch arm.  2. The aluminum primary mousetrap/foot clutch arm.  3. The shovelhead steel mousetrap eliminator arm. 4. The aluminum mousetrap eliminator arm. 

The arm that you should have is #2.  I couldn't find a picture of it in your pictures.

You have just saved some money!!!  Can you imagine joining the AMCA and asking one of those judges your question and getting the AMCA response you got.  Do you think that you would stay a member??  You have saved yourself the price of a year's membership.

[iiggii]

Pzokes  I agree with that .

[chris haynes]

  Without trying to be a wiseass I would suggest that you invest in a Factory Service Manual. Someone isn't always going to be available to bail your ass out. Every bike owner should have the manual for his bike so things get done properly, not by guesswork.
Adjusting a clutch properly is a prescion process that demands the use of a machinists ruler. If your are is hitting the tranny lid it is improperly adjusted.

[chris haynes]

easyricer,
There are  four arms that I know of.  1. The original mousetrap/footclutch arm.  2. The aluminum primary mousetrap/foot clutch arm.  3. The shovelhead steel mousetrap eliminator arm. 4. The aluminum mousetrap eliminator arm. 

The arm that you should have is #2.  I couldn't find a picture of it in your pictures.


Pzokes.
Here are #1, #2, And #3 as you described.
This information provided by a AMCA Judge.

[Pynzo]

Assuming you have the correct arm adjustment for '65 up with aluminum primary is:

Clutch engaged with lever toe down - clutch rod should have 1/8" free movement before clutch disengages (adjust at pushrod adjusting screw).

Clutch fully disengaged with heel down- arm should stop 1/4" away from starter drive housing.

You'll need the footboard for your pedal stop- it'll prevent the fingers breaking. Panheads and Knucks were adjusted so that the arm stopped against the tranny lid and can get away without the footboards to stop the footlever being pushed down too far.

[Pzokes]

Chris & Pynzo,
Thanks for the pictures and information, clarifying what I hazily mentioned.

[Pynzo]

I'm glad C.H. had a pic of the correct lever, I checked my Palmer's and he had the early mousetrap lever listed as fitting all shovels with footclutch to '78.

[Pzokes]

I really don't know the answer to the spread of information on repairing old bikes.  The Factory Manuals do provide a lot of information, but not all the information.  And the internet can provide some great pictures and information, but not all the information needed.  But what happens if the people providing the information die or refuse to provide the information?  Is the interest in these old bikes going to die? 

[chris haynes]

Information is free. Parts cost money!

[easyricer]

Thanks for all ya'lls advice. With the set up I got I don't think there is going to be much of a manual to cover this. I got a feeling that the rocker clutch was never meant to be used with a crossover exhaust system. That's what I got. I knew that my adjustment was pretty crude but it worked for the test rides while working on the bike getting it ready for the road. I had actually considered swapping out the electric start primary for my tin primary so that I had all the new stuff on the shovel. I rethought that a bit later though after I found that the clutch rod actually made it to the clutch arm with little modification. It took me a while to dig out the adapter that moved the rod from the pedal to the back side of the tensioner. The arm for the tin primary hit everything and wasn't even close enough to modify it to work.
Now I can go at it with a bit more of an informed view. looking at the arm, in the engaged position it's touching the starter. In the disengaged position it's 2 inches from the starter. So with my adapter I have a full inches of travel. I'm thinking I'll need to shorten the travel.
EASY

[chris haynes]

If you are not using the correct electric start clutch arm your geometry will be wrong. It should fit and work perfectly with a factory crossover. Follow the clutch adjusting instructions in the book and all will be well.

[Pynzo]

I think I know what your problem might be. It sounds like you are getting too much travel on the release arm and that's why you are breaking off the fingers. Not only do you need the correct release arm, HD # 37052-65, you also need the clutch rod HD # 36917-65. NOS Parts sells it. I'm not sure of the exact length of the rod just mentioned, and I'm going by specs in an aftermarket catalog, but as I read it the difference between the '52 to '64 mousetrap rod and the '65 to'67 rod is 2". The '36 to '64 rocker clutch rod is 18-1/2" long, so my guess is you need a rod 16-1/2" long. As you are doing your adjustment set the fully disengaged first. You are using your starter motor housing as your disengaged stop, right? Back off the pushrod adjuster screw until the clutch just barely slips ( Bike NOT running, in first gear) when the release lever hits the starter housing. If you're not using footboards you'll need to set up a pedal stop for toe down fully engaged position of rocker pedal. I drilled and tapped my footpeg clevis for an adjustable pedal stop bolt when I ran this setup. Engage the clutch and turn the clutch rod into the rod end until you get close to 1/4" free play at the release lever. Now start turning the pushrod adjuster screw in until you get your 1/8" free play. Test your disengaged position again, it may take a little back and forth adjustment between rod length and pushrod adjustment but you should be able to find the sweet spot where you get full clutch disengagement without stressing the fork fingers to the point of breaking.

[easyricer]

Thanks alot all. I moved the pivot point of the adapter up half way to lower the travel of the lever. Like that I was able to get it down to 1 inch at the throw out arm. From there I adjusted the rod length to fine tune the clutch. I still have a little too much drag right now but it works pretty decent. I think I'll have to shorten my rod by about 1/4 inch to get the walking out.
It worked out great on the test ride. Shifting was smooth, the take off was alot less grab and slipped nicley till I got my feet up and let her go. SO no problems with left turns from a stop.
I know that ya'll didn't intend on me doing things like this but I had to make do with what I got on hand. This bike and the pile of parts I have is all I have to work with. There ain't gonna be alot of money dumped into this. All of the info was very useful. I know Robert Palmer would have a field day with this bike but it's still a working running bike and is going to be my daily ride as soon as I have the road couch sold.
EASY