110"/117" Bolt On Kits

[Tattoo]

so I have been getting a few e-mails ,phone calls and PM's about how the 110"/117" bolt on kits are holding up. a few members on this site beat these kits up pretty bad when they first came out, well so far so good we have over 45 110" kits and about 15 117" dyno tuned and on the road with not one issue as of yet . our very first 110 kit went to California and back and the only thing it needed when he got back was tires and a service. have done several with T-Man heads and cams with great results and several with JC Walker heads with outstanding TQ and are pounded on daily. My employee had his done last winter has almost 4000 miles on his 110" and is  actually trying to blow it up but it is still going strong. not trying to sell anybody anything or promote HD products but I must say these kits have been holding up for our customers . if anything changes I will post pictures and details of the failed part.

[FSG]

 

and for those interested HD have only just released a new Instruction Sheet  REV. 2016-05-16

http://www.harley-davidson.com/app-content/service/isheets/-J06285.PDF

[wfolarry]

It seemed like a good idea to me. When guys first started punching out their 103's to 107 I thought that was a recipe for disaster because the spigots were too thin. There's a thousand motors out there to prove that wrong. With the better material those cylinders are made of I don't see any reason for them to fail. Always like to see new stuff working out like you hope it would. 

[rockytop117]

I've got close to 1500 miles on my 117 ( two oil changes & nothing in the oil to show issues)  I run the wheels off of it even done some drag racing & so far it seems to be awesome! I've got a 2000 mile trip coming up in June & that will be the test. If this kit works out I will also do the 110 drop in kit in my wives Softail.

[NHBagger]

Thanks for the update!! 

[Tattoo]

Thanks for the update!!

your PM box is full

[NHBagger]

Thanks, fixed.

[harleytuner]

Good info thanks for the update.  I've had a few customers call inquiring about the 117" kit.  My response so far has been i'm on the fence still.  I will wait a hit longer before installing one for a customer.  I'd like to see one with some miles on it torn down and measured for out of round, and I just haven't found the customer to do that with yet.  I have seen a few issues with the .060" over 110's being out of round and because of that I won't be doing anymore. 

[Raleigh111]

if a guy were to crank up his 110 to a 117 with heads and cam wouldn't the crank become a issue?

[Tattoo]

if a guy were to crank up his 110 to a 117 with heads and cam wouldn't the crank become a issue?

My service writer had 45,000 miles on his hopped up 103"(2012 FLTR) stock lower end  before he installed the 110' bolt on kit with JC Walker heads 125/126. like I said he as actually been trying to blow it up for around 4000 hard  miles and it is still running strong.

[GunShyKennedy]

I have one, travelled 4,000ks.
No problem.
Seriously and severely measured before fitting, especially bore size.

[NHBagger]

My service writer had 45,000 miles on his hopped up 103"(2012 FLTR) stock lower end  before he installed the 110' bolt on kit with JC Walker heads 125/126. like I said he as actually been trying to blow it up for around 4000 hard  miles and it is still running strong.
[/quote]

What cams, John's?

[Tattoo]

SE 259 ,they were the cams from his previous 103" build.

[Tommy D]

Wes,

Thanks for taking your time writing this summary,  Good to hear

[lisab]

Looks like another nail in the coffin for the Indy custom motor builders.  Pretty soon it will only be the alphabet gang S&S and HD for 110" and above.

[harleytuner]

Looks like another nail in the coffin for the Indy custom motor builders.  Pretty soon it will only be the alphabet gang S&S and HD for 110" and above.

Not really, at least i'm not worried about it.  If you look at what you could do with the amount of money the kit cost, and the cost of labor at a dealership, that money will go a long way towards something else.  Not to mention a lot of customers don't want a cookie cutter build.  A lot of dealers (at least in my area) won't install anything except MoCo/SE parts.

[lisab]

Take a good look at how the price of used Twin Cam engine case prices have dropped over the past two years.  What was selling for 850~900 is now half that.  Softail cases with flywheels in them for 600~700 dollars.  Motor company short blocks have made a dent and the SE cases are very competitive for building a big motor.

[LC110]

I have to ask, what happened to all the out of round cylinders and the special torque plates. Have not heard about any these things since the initial introduction. Was it all BS?
And did anyone get these special torque plates? I am sure I read that someone had them on order.

[wfolarry]

I have to ask, what happened to all the out of round cylinders and the special torque plates. Have not heard about any these things since the initial introduction. Was it all BS?

More like a lot of drama. But there's always one somewhere that had a problem that makes all the rest junk. There were some pictures on this site when they first came out that looked like there was a machining problem. A good engine builder will catch a problem before it becomes a problem. An assembler just puts it together & hopes for the best.

[Admiral Akbar]

I have to ask, what happened to all the out of round cylinders and the special torque plates. Have not heard about any these things since the initial introduction. Was it all BS?
And did anyone get these special torque plates? I am sure I read that someone had them on order.

What special TQ plates?   Jims ones work fine on a 4 inch bore.. They get a little tight when doing +0.010 tho.. Won't do +0.020..

[Paul in Alaska]

So how about the 117 kit for a 2011 CVO? I believe these kits are for 2014 and up.... Just slugs and jugs from the kit and go with it? Add a cam?

[HD/Wrench]

special tq plate     HD BS , nothing more .. I have only done the 117 and customers are happy and riding .  No issues that I have been made aware of on the installs we have done. Another going together in the morning.. 117 , Ported CVO heads HPI 62 MM our 600 cam VH pwr dual crusher mufflers and DD7. Should make for a very fast RK

[Tattoo]

HD BS ?? maybe that one dealer made that comment but I talked with a guy from SE and claims that statement did not come from the MOCO.

[HD/Wrench]

Well then that dealer lied  stating what I was told and dealer told me he contacted MOCO.. But I am not the only one that was told that. .

[1FSTRK]

I have to ask, what happened to all the out of round cylinders and the special torque plates. Have not heard about any these things since the initial introduction. Was it all BS?
And did anyone get these special torque plates? I am sure I read that someone had them on order.

What special TQ plates?   Jims ones work fine on a 4 inch bore.. They get a little tight when doing +0.010 tho.. Won't do +0.020..

I think he is referring to this post and thread as well as the one from the other web site.

I would be interested to see what they measure up like with torque plates on.By the look of them very poor quality control .

Which torque plates ?
The special MOCO ones ?

  Don't need to be special.. They'll fit a set of Jim's TC plates..

MY original reply was 'tongue in cheek'

special torque plates HD-48627-A
There has been a fair bit of discussion about out of round cylinders for the 117 kits on the CVO site

Thought you may have been aware of it Max
You had a thread on torque plates recently

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=106379.0
see reply #45 , reply #75

A 117 will need special plates as the bore is 4 1/8..  Don't go over to the CVO forum.. Only took me about 3-4 posts to get permanently banned from that place.. 

Taken from this thread
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,89644.msg1027660.html#msg1027660

[LC110]

What my thoughts were from the start on the torque plates. Just 

[Raleigh111]

special tq plate     HD BS , nothing more .. I have only done the 117 and customers are happy and riding .  No issues that I have been made aware of on the installs we have done. Another going together in the morning.. 117 , Ported CVO heads HPI 62 MM our 600 cam VH pwr dual crusher mufflers and DD7. Should make for a very fast RK

I ask because you would know. Not worried about that crank?

[Yellow09SERG]

Are the pistons still running the .005 to .007 in the hole on these kits or has Harley correct that? Also what is the CCP on these kits in stock form with the 259 cams

[bwernicke]

 I've got 6,000 miles on my 110 with tman cams and no issues. It's awesome to ride and i ride it 2up hard!

[HD/Wrench]

doing a 110 on a trike this week, using the GMR 577 cam and  CNC heads from Dragos.. I have no idea on flow numbers( before anyone ask's)  but they look good I am sure it will wake this trike right up!!!

[Nastytls]

Any way to get the compression up to 11-1 in these?

[noliners]

Just did a 110 kit . Used 110 heads ported by Ward Performance. HeadsCC d at 86. Cometic .30 gaskets.. Tman 590. S/S premiums S/E 58TB  Fatcat/ CCP 200.  TTS tune at RCCycles Bob. Break in Tune 124/127 SAE. Will get final tune after a few Hundred more miles. and post.Could not leave it alone

[sfmichael]

Just did a 110 kit . Used 110 heads ported by Ward Performance. HeadsCC d at 86. Cometic .30 gaskets.. Tman 590. S/S premiums S/E 58TB  Fatcat/ CCP 200.  TTS tune at RCCycles Bob. Break in Tune 124/127 SAE. Will get final tune after a few Hundred more miles. and post.Could not leave it alone

Outstanding 

Big fan of those kits myself 

[Tommy D]

Just did a 110 kit . Used 110 heads ported by Ward Performance. HeadsCC d at 86. Cometic .30 gaskets.. Tman 590. S/S premiums S/E 58TB  Fatcat/ CCP 200.  TTS tune at RCCycles Bob. Break in Tune 124/127 SAE. Will get final tune after a few Hundred more miles. and post.Could not leave it alone

Which model bike?

[noliners]

2015 Roadglide

[Tommy D]

2015 Roadglide

[rockytop117]

I've got nearly 3k on my 117 http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,89747.0.html & no problems to report. I leave on a 2k hot down south trip next week & will report back afterward!

[Cvoharleyrider]

It would be interesting for someone to pull the heads and take a look at the cylinders to see if you have any unusual wear due to possible distortion.  Ccp and Leak down may not detect a brewing issue.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[HD/Wrench]

I just got done on the 110 trike install. And I had wanted to weigh the cylinders , and I forgot . They seem to weigh more. Does any one have one to weigh?? just curious on my part.

[rockytop117]

It would be interesting for someone to pull the heads and take a look at the cylinders to see if you have any unusual wear due to possible distortion.  Ccp and Leak down may not detect a brewing issue.

A bore scope would reveal any issues as I've already checked! I'm the type that listens all the time for anything out of the ordinary & so far all is well!

[Tattoo]

I have weighed them and they are very close to the same weight

We tore a kit down that had 7000 miles on it because of a little weeping around the base and the cylinders looked fine with no unusual wear marks. replaced the base o-rings and he was back on the road. we have another customer that has been drag racing his bike every Friday night with his 110" bolt on kit in his ultra low once again he has had no issues as of yet. The employee that we did the 110" upgrade over the winter with JC's heads is still trying to blow his up and now over 6000 abusive miles with not one issue.

[TorQuePimp]

   Still kickin ass Tattoo ?

[Tattoo]

   Still kickin ass Tattoo ?

Yes between 110"/117" we have over 60 kits out with many different combinations some with your heads ,SE CNC,T-Man and many different cams they all are still running strong with no issues. I'm sure many still think these kits are junk and HD dealers are not qualified to install them BUT.............

[HD/Wrench]

I have weighed them and they are very close to the same weight

We tore a kit down that had 7000 miles on it because of a little weeping around the base and the cylinders looked fine with no unusual wear marks. replaced the base o-rings and he was back on the road. we have another customer that has been drag racing his bike every Friday night with his 110" bolt on kit in his ultra low once again he has had no issues as of yet. The employee that we did the 110" upgrade over the winter with JC's heads is still trying to blow his up and now over 6000 abusive miles with not one issue.

It just felt like ti weighed more.. The trike is up and running Since I do not have a X dyno  and customer had TTS I am tuning it with the green module and DTT Wego in flight mode.   CCP on it is 180/181 . The trike will pull away from a dead idle with no throttle and drop down to 800 rpm and move right along. Before it was anything but that. Fair amount of throttle and clutch needed to get it moving.  Roll on power is vastly improved from what it had before.( 103-255 cams) . Still not gone over 4000 RPM .. For a trike this is a very nice kit , I do not think that heads are needed , its nice but not needed. The stock heads would get the job done well enough to the 4500-5000 range..   

[mike jesse]

Hey Wes,

Can the cylinders/pistons be had as a kit, or does a person have to spring for the whole package?

[Tattoo]

you can buy the kit part# 92500039 it comes with cylinders,pistons and most of the gaskets.

[Snowyone]

Been reading through the post and was looking for piston/ring/wristpin weight.  Would like to try the 110 kit on my Crossbones but don't want to screw up the fine balance job done by Darkhorse.

[Don D]

Then get with a vendor that can match the gram weight of the pistons and put a dome on them for more push.
I have some very nice coated Diamond Racing pistons on the way, 4032, 10cc

[98fxstc]

We tore a kit down that had 7000 miles on it because of a little weeping around the base and the cylinders looked fine with no unusual wear marks. replaced the base o-rings and he was back on the road.

Curious about this Wes
was there anything to indicate why the quad rings were leaking ?
have you seen this before ?
Thanks

[Tattoo]

We tore a kit down that had 7000 miles on it because of a little weeping around the base and the cylinders looked fine with no unusual wear marks. replaced the base o-rings and he was back on the road.

Curious about this Wes
was there anything to indicate why the quad rings were leaking ?
have you seen this before ?
Thanks

We see it once in a great while even on the 103" motors just replaced all the gaskets and it has been fine ever since.

[98fxstc]

We tore a kit down that had 7000 miles on it because of a little weeping around the base and the cylinders looked fine with no unusual wear marks. replaced the base o-rings and he was back on the road.

Curious about this Wes
was there anything to indicate why the quad rings were leaking ?
have you seen this before ?
Thanks

We see it once in a great while even on the 103" motors just replaced all the gaskets and it has been fine ever since.

Thanks
I have a small weep at the base of the cylinder on my 110
follows a rebuild about 18 months ago when I replaced the o rings
Wondering if there is anything extra I can do to make sure I get a seal at the o rings

[TA63]

Would the 110 kit work on an 08 softail?

[Tattoo]

Would the 110 kit work on an 08 softail?

yes it would...

[joe_lyons]

We tore a kit down that had 7000 miles on it because of a little weeping around the base and the cylinders looked fine with no unusual wear marks. replaced the base o-rings and he was back on the road.

Curious about this Wes
was there anything to indicate why the quad rings were leaking ?
have you seen this before ?
Thanks

We see it once in a great while even on the 103" motors just replaced all the gaskets and it has been fine ever since.

Thanks
I have a small weep at the base of the cylinder on my 110
follows a rebuild about 18 months ago when I replaced the o rings
Wondering if there is anything extra I can do to make sure I get a seal at the o rings

What year is your 110?

[FSG]

you can buy the kit part# 92500039 it comes with cylinders,pistons and most of the gaskets.

http://www.harley-davidson.com/app-content/service/isheets/-J06216.PDF

[98fxstc]

We tore a kit down that had 7000 miles on it because of a little weeping around the base and the cylinders looked fine with no unusual wear marks. replaced the base o-rings and he was back on the road.

Curious about this Wes
was there anything to indicate why the quad rings were leaking ?
have you seen this before ?
Thanks

We see it once in a great while even on the 103" motors just replaced all the gaskets and it has been fine ever since.

Thanks
I have a small weep at the base of the cylinder on my 110
follows a rebuild about 18 months ago when I replaced the o rings
Wondering if there is anything extra I can do to make sure I get a seal at the o rings

What year is your 110?

09 fxdfse
Thanks Joe

[joe_lyons]

We tore a kit down that had 7000 miles on it because of a little weeping around the base and the cylinders looked fine with no unusual wear marks. replaced the base o-rings and he was back on the road.

Curious about this Wes
was there anything to indicate why the quad rings were leaking ?
have you seen this before ?
Thanks

We see it once in a great while even on the 103" motors just replaced all the gaskets and it has been fine ever since.

Thanks
I have a small weep at the base of the cylinder on my 110
follows a rebuild about 18 months ago when I replaced the o rings
Wondering if there is anything extra I can do to make sure I get a seal at the o rings

What year is your 110?

09 fxdfse
Thanks Joe

The early years of 110 cyls had some issues of getting oil between the liner and the aluminium through porous spots in the drain back passage. 

[98fxstc]

We tore a kit down that had 7000 miles on it because of a little weeping around the base and the cylinders looked fine with no unusual wear marks. replaced the base o-rings and he was back on the road.

Curious about this Wes
was there anything to indicate why the quad rings were leaking ?
have you seen this before ?
Thanks

We see it once in a great while even on the 103" motors just replaced all the gaskets and it has been fine ever since.

Thanks
I have a small weep at the base of the cylinder on my 110
follows a rebuild about 18 months ago when I replaced the o rings
Wondering if there is anything extra I can do to make sure I get a seal at the o rings

What year is your 110?

09 fxdfse
Thanks Joe

The early years of 110 cyls had some issues of getting oil between the liner and the aluminium through porous spots in the drain back passage.

I guess 09 is early ?
Was all good up until 2 months ago
I'll try to get a handle on it when I disassemble

Thanks Joe

[NHBagger]

This has probably already been asked, but can you get 10.5 pistons for the 110 cylinders?

[98fxstc]

This has probably already been asked, but can you get 10.5 pistons for the 110 cylinders?

got em in mine

[NHBagger]

This has probably already been asked, but can you get 10.5 pistons for the 110 cylinders?

got em in mine

From who?

[HunterJ]

This has probably already been asked, but can you get 10.5 pistons for the 110 cylinders?

I have them in mine. I have the harley screaming eagle 10.5 dome pistons. They are in the Screaming eagle catalog

[Tattoo]

This has probably already been asked, but can you get 10.5 pistons for the 110 cylinders?

I have them in mine. I have the harley screaming eagle 10.5 dome pistons. They are in the Screaming eagle catalog

your running those pistons in a 110" bolt on kit or your 110" CVO? there is a difference in the two.... 

[woodreaux]

Can HD 4"  pistons 22502-07B be used with the new 110 cylinders with  Mva heads ?

[Tattoo]

Can HD 4"  pistons 22502-07B be used with the new 110 cylinders with  Mva heads ?

No they can't the skirts hit the engine cases on the non CVO models.

[Good_Apollo]

Maybe a dumb question, but I know TC88 and TC96/103 cylinders are supposed to be interchangeable.

Would this 110 kit bolt up to a TC88? I realize it would not yield 110ci because of the stroke.

[HD/Wrench]

The cylinders in fact would go on , however the issue is the kit will not be a 110 and the pistons would not work due to compression height. Its meant for a 4 .375 stroke not a 4.00 stroke, A few have made pistons though.. It would not be a huge deal it would make a 100 CI  .. And the cost involved would be higher ,.. you can just bore your cylinders and end up at 98 CI

[HunterJ]

This has probably already been asked, but can you get 10.5 pistons for the 110 cylinders?

I have them in mine. I have the harley screaming eagle 10.5 dome pistons. They are in the Screaming eagle catalog

your running those pistons in a 110" bolt on kit or your 110" CVO? there is a difference in the two....

I have an old110 kit. Had my 96" case bored and crank worked over. I assumed a 4" bore was a 4" bore and should work with the drop on kits. I could be wrong.

[woodreaux]

The reason I was asking about the 4" pistons fitting in the new 110 kits  is -  I read elsewhere that some folks were going to install the new 110 cylinders with the 110 MVA pistons and heads on a 103 Dyna.

From what Tattoo wrote it sounds like they won't get  far with their concept.

[HD/Wrench]

Ok so to be clear 

88  3.75 bore    X 4 inch
95  3.875 bore  X 4 inch
98  3.937 bore  X 4 inch

96   3.750 bore   X 4.375  stroke
103 3.875 bore   X 4 .375 stroke


So to have same bore but longer stroke the wrist pin location is moved upward in piston..  So if you bolt on the 110 kit the piston would be approx .375 inch in the hole.. It is a piston thing nothing more

[harleytuner]

Ok so to be clear 

88  3.75 bore    X 4 inch
95  3.875 bore  X 4 inch
98  3.937 bore  X 4 inch

96   3.750 bore   X 4.375  stroke
103 3.875 bore   X 4 .375 stroke
107 3.937 bore   X 4 .375 stroke

So to have same bore but longer stroke the wrist pin location is moved upward in piston..  So if you bolt on the 110 kit the piston would be approx .375 inch in the hole.. It is a piston thing nothing more

I just added the 107" bore in your chart is all. 

[Tattoo]

The reason I was asking about the 4" pistons fitting in the new 110 kits  is -  I read elsewhere that some folks were going to install the new 110 cylinders with the 110 MVA pistons and heads on a 103 Dyna.

From what Tattoo wrote it sounds like they won't get  far with their concept.

CVO  cases are  machiened for the CVO 110" cylinders the 96/103 cases are not thats why they have the thinner spigot on the new 110 bolt on kits. the skirts on the CVO 4.00" pistons are a little longer and would hit inside the 96/103 case.

If you click on the link that FSG posted in reply #54 and read the instruction sheet it clearly states "Do not use stock CVO pistons with the 4" Bolt-on Cylinders or interference occurs between the pistons and crankcase" We did some testing at the dealership as well and confirmed this in deed is true.

[Admiral Akbar]

Ok so to be clear 

88  3.75 bore    X 4 inch
95  3.875 bore  X 4 inch
98  3.937 bore  X 4 inch

96   3.750 bore   X 4.375  stroke
103 3.875 bore   X 4 .375 stroke


So to have same bore but longer stroke the wrist pin location is moved upward in piston..  So if you bolt on the 110 kit the piston would be approx .375 inch in the hole.. It is a piston thing nothing more

You'd really be 1/2 that.. or about 3/16..

[HD/Wrench]

It was to explain the pin location  in simple terms, and show the numbers .  Not be spot on hence the approx

[NHBagger]

What's the CR of the 110 kit using an .030"?

[rigidthumper]

Depends on the heads- most late model air cooled stock heads average 86ccs, so ~10.55:1 with zero deck, 10.45:1 if down 5 thou ( very common to be 5-7 thou down)

[NHBagger]

Depends on the heads- most late model air cooled stock heads average 86ccs, so ~10.55:1 with zero deck, 10.45:1 if down 5 thou ( very common to be 5-7 thou down)

Twin Cooled Rushmores the same?

[rigidthumper]

No, twin cooled  bikes have ~ 83cc chambers, so they have ~10.75:1 with the Cometic  thirty thou gaskets and the drop on 110 kits

[Nastytls]

Any word of a manufacturer making higher compression pistons for these 110 cylinders?

[HD/Wrench]

Well mahle makes the pistons I do not see any reason why you cannot use the 10.5 SE piston..

[Tattoo]

Well mahle makes the pistons I do not see any reason why you cannot use the 10.5 SE piston..

Measure the skirt length....

[NHBagger]

No, twin cooled  bikes have ~ 83cc chambers, so they have ~10.75:1 with the Cometic  thirty thou gaskets and the drop on 110 kits

Do you think that's too much for one running TTS100 cams?  Seems like I heard that stock with these cams is around 195 ccp?

[rockytop117]

I just got back from a 2183 mile trip in 95-105 degree weather New Orleans heat index was 115 on Friday w/o any issues with my 117 drop in. Averaged 37.6 mpg 2- up loaded running 75-83 mph & other than heat off the back head no other downsides. I changed the oil when I got home & no usage, looked new & no debris on the drain.

[Tattoo]

I just got back from a 2183 mile trip in 95-105 degree weather New Orleans heat index was 115 on Friday w/o any issues with my 117 drop in. Averaged 37.6 mpg 2- up loaded running 75-83 mph & other than heat off the back head no other downsides. I changed the oil when I got home & no usage, looked new & no debris on the drain.

we have been getting the same feedback and results on over the sixty 110"/117" bolt on kits we have installed since last October.

[rigidthumper]

No, twin cooled  bikes have ~ 83cc chambers, so they have ~10.75:1 with the Cometic  thirty thou gaskets and the drop on 110 kits

Do you think that's too much for one running TTS100 cams?  Seems like I heard that stock with these cams is around 195 ccp?

I think so. I do know a few adventurous souls who've used them instead of the SE259 cams in the 103 stage 4 kits (supposed to be 10.5, measured is actually 10.28-10.35) and loved the throttle response. You could use a Cometic .040. That would get you back to 10.5.

I am thinking about trying the 150 in a 117 kit at 10.5.

[Just Nick]

I have a 117" drop in kit sitting in my office for my new dyna s and I am also thinking about the TTS 150 cams on the 117 some head work and a hpi 58e. This bike is going to be my "stunt" bike and I think the 150 fits the bill cams wise. I also have three different exhausts to play with for it. I am shooting for the 130's on h/t

[1FSTRK]

What are the specs on a TTS 150?

[jsachs1]

The measurement from the deck to the bottom of the SE piston skirt, Part # 22502-07B, is 1.770".
John

[rigidthumper]

What are the specs on a TTS 150?

Never seen anything published from the manufacturer.

[TorQuePimp]

The specs for the tts cams were posted a while back

@ 10.8 you are in t man590,RS 575,se259 territory

[NHBagger]

The specs for the tts cams were posted a while back

@ 10.8 you are in t man590,RS 575,se259 territory

A 110 @ 10.8 with a Tman 590 could be interesting.

[HD/Wrench]

We are putting together a 110 with our CNC heads our 600 cam and a 58 t/b  This kit in the 107 makes 130/124  so I am looking forward to seeing how this comes out

[rich1]

I have a 14 Softail. According to the catalog the 110 kit is for 16 only. Obviously it shouldl bolt up. What is the reason for that? Did HD just not develop any reflash maps for the 14's?

[rigidthumper]

16 Softails are TBW

[GunShyKennedy]

We are putting together a 110 with our CNC heads our 600 cam and a 58 t/b  This kit in the 107 makes 130/124  so I am looking forward to seeing how this comes out

So am I Steve 
When are you doing a 117...

[HD/Wrench]

already did that a few times now .. ( 117 that is)

[Hossamania]

Now you guys have me thinking. If these 110 kits really are holding up, I just may have to look into doing one. I was just going to cam my 103, but now the 110 kit looks appealing.

[rockytop117]

Does anyone make a aftermarket piston for the drop in 110 kits?

[Thinkpainting]

that part number brought up no such item?  # 92500039 ??

[ReapersWG]

I've been thinking of going the 110 route in my 2011 Wide Glide. Can to buy just the cylinders and pistons? I'm thinking of getting 10.5 SE pistons and deck my heads to get a 10.8 and running a Tman 590. I have the older stage 4 103 now and it makes real good power just over 110 hp/tq I've got the 110 heads with porting by Big Boyz and currently running a Tman 625. I like the cam but I've been told the 590 will give me a little more or even may try a 662-1 I personally like Tman cams. So do I have any options other than buying the 110 kit and Jenkins the rest of the parts I don't need? Thanks for the help. Been offline for a while but glad to get back in the swing of things

[Mountainman streetbob]

We are putting together a 110 with our CNC heads our 600 cam and a 58 t/b  This kit in the 107 makes 130/124  so I am looking forward to seeing how this comes out

How did the 110 with your cnc heads and 600 cam and se58tb turn out???

Sounds like a great combo...

[HD/Wrench]

HA HA I am very back logged with work. I have all the parts here just some other jobs in front of it.  But once done I will post it up.

[GRam]

Are the pistons still down in the bores some? Have a 117 kit on order, and with my current MVA heads having a 95 cc chamber, and my Tman 625 cams, corrected #'s
are a tiny bit low I think? Like 9.5-1 and 194.5 ccp. That's with a 0.030 hg. Thinking it's pretty close, but close enough?

But if pistons were zero deck, probably be almost perfect?

[rockytop117]

Are the pistons still down in the bores some? Have a 117 kit on order, and with my current MVA heads having a 95 cc chamber, and my Tman 625 cams, corrected #'s
are a tiny bit low I think? Like 9.5-1 and 194.5 ccp. That's with a 0.030 hg. Thinking it's pretty close, but close enough?

But if pistons were zero deck, probably be almost perfect?

if IRCC mine was .002 in the hole. It seems they vary as i've saw 4-5in the hole as well

[Tattoo]

Are the pistons still down in the bores some? Have a 117 kit on order, and with my current MVA heads having a 95 cc chamber, and my Tman 625 cams, corrected #'s
are a tiny bit low I think? Like 9.5-1 and 194.5 ccp. That's with a 0.030 hg. Thinking it's pretty close, but close enough?

But if pistons were zero deck, probably be almost perfect?

if IRCC mine was .002 in the hole. It seems they vary as i've saw 4-5in the hole as well

we have seen the same thing.

[HD/Wrench]

Does it really matter if its 2 or 10 these engines are no where near that picky .. Just like the HG guys want this perfect squish. Its not magical, there is no change. I have tuned high comp engines that guys ran very thick gasket to lower the comp ratio it tuned just fine.. What about a dish piston.. There is very little area that is not well below zero deck..

Get it as close as you can with what you have 2 or 5 is not going to make any difference that you will ever feel seat of the pants

[GRam]

Thanks GMR, didn't think it was something that would leave me shaking my head over.
Although the flip side of my personality says it's the details like that, that make the difference
between a good runner, and a great runner..
This experiment is just to get me through the season, think Xmas will see Santa deliver that shiny 124 I
have been asking about for the past few years lol

[TorQuePimp]

Does it really matter if its 2 or 10 these engines are no where near that picky .. Just like the HG guys want this perfect squish. Its not magical, there is no change. I have tuned high comp engines that guys ran very thick gasket to lower the comp ratio it tuned just fine.. What about a dish piston.. There is very little area that is not well below zero deck..

Get it as close as you can with what you have 2 or 5 is not going to make any difference that you will ever feel seat of the pants

  As far as tuning goes maybe true....power production,not true in the least

A little bit of blueprinting or ordering components to make up the difference helps.

[HD/Wrench]

Sure increase in comp ratio will help , but there is no reason to worry about 2 or 5 .. You comp ratio gain is minimal and power ?? not enough to worry about ..  30 to a 40 gasket same comp ratio no another non issue.. Sorry but that is my opinion and I tune these almost every day .. Same fuel same heat and you can run the same timing . its not enough to freak out over..  Race car engine or some thing that is max effort that is another story ..

[TorQuePimp]

almost never see .002 in the hole.....its always more than that

  If you don't address the heads they can be 1CC or more different from one another.

  Some of the CVO heads are worse yet.

It all adds up and separates a good build from a  better one

[Tattoo]

A old engine builder once told me that running a .030" head gasket on a high compression engine as well as tithing up your "Squish" area will reduce the risk of spark knock. I run .030" HG on 99% of the builds I do at home and at the dealership.

[strokerjlk]

I have weighed them and they are very close to the same weight

We tore a kit down that had 7000 miles on it because of a little weeping around the base and the cylinders looked fine with no unusual wear marks. replaced the base o-rings and he was back on the road. we have another customer that has been drag racing his bike every Friday night with his 110" bolt on kit in his ultra low once again he has had no issues as of yet. The employee that we did the 110" upgrade over the winter with JC's heads is still trying to blow his up and now over 6000 abusive miles with not one issue.

Local dealer had one leak at the base. the tech told me there was a better updated O ring now. you heard anything about it Wes?

[Tattoo]

we have had only one leak and I will have to look into a "updated" O-Ring.

[Merc1100sc]

Maybe this has been mentioned before but is there a race version and a non race version of the 117 kit?
If so, what are the differences in the two?

[NHBagger]

A old engine builder once told me that running a .030" head gasket on a high compression engine as well as tithing up your "Squish" area will reduce the risk of spark knock. I run .030" HG on 99% of the builds I do at home and at the dealership.

Since this was brought up, what is the CR of the 110 kit with a .030?  I have seen 10.2, 10.5 and 10.75 for numbers?  In my case, talking wethead.  Curious as I will be running TTS100 cams, and not sure how much compression they can handle before the CCP gets too high.

[boooby1744]

A old engine builder once told me that running a .030" head gasket on a high compression engine as well as tithing up your "Squish" area will reduce the risk of spark knock. I run .030" HG on 99% of the builds I do at home and at the dealership.

My buddy once had .030 blow on a rear cylinder, made him a little wary. he prefers a .040 and will go to a .036 if he must.

[bwernicke]

I've got one of these kits installed with a dark horse bottom end. While riding from Chicago to Memphis my wife and I noticed a vibration in the footboard we have never felt in 80k miles of riding. By the time we got to a local Harley dealer we barely had any oil pressure.

The dealer was closing and would not even look at it. They are assuming the crank walked causing the drop in oil pressure.

The dealership that completed the build is on their way here with a loaner bike and will take mine back home. I'll update this thread as I hear back. Specs on my build can be found in the dyno forum.

I am pretty disappointed. I spent quite a bit on this build but I also appreciate the customer service from the Harley dealership that did the build. They are doing the right thing here for sure.

[Tattoo]

If Darkhorse did the crank Im willing to bet the crank didn't "walk" but stranger things have happened.

[Barrett]

Does Darkhorse secure all crank bearings or is it something you need to ask for? What year is your bike?

[bwernicke]

It's a 2009. Part of the work they did was a Timken conversion (I think).

[bwernicke]

Darkhorse Bottom End including the Following:

DH-2164-BRG BRG.SET, CONN.ROD ROLLER
DH-7670 T/C COMP. CONN. ROD SET
DH-HDPIN-A CRANKPIN,2-HOLE, CENTOLS.GR
DH-SC-B SERVICE CRANKSHAFT W/BAL
DHC-PP PRO PLUG CRANKSHAFT
DHC-RCSS CENTER OE SPR. SHAFT, 07+
DHC-WELD WELD CRANKPIN

That was the description of work done by dark horse. I'm not sure what all of those descriptions mean.
The oil pump that was installed by the dealership was from zippers.

[Tattoo]

did Darkhorse install the crank in the cases?

[bwernicke]

did Darkhorse install the crank in the cases?

I honestly do not know that information.

[K4FXD]

Can these jugs be bought separately? Will they fit the 88 CI cases?

4 inch bore 4 inch stroke. I know I'd need pistons for the stroke, reason for asking if the jugs are available.

[rigidthumper]

Can these jugs be bought separately? Will they fit the 88 CI cases?

4 inch bore 4 inch stroke. I know I'd need pistons for the stroke, reason for asking if the jugs are available.

Yes, not cheap tho. Wiseco offers a K1760  4"x4" piston assy that may work.

[1FSTRK]

Can these jugs be bought separately? Will they fit the 88 CI cases?

4 inch bore 4 inch stroke. I know I'd need pistons for the stroke, reason for asking if the jugs are available.

There may be an issue with the piston skirt hitting a boss in the early cases at the bottom of the stroke, i still do not have a definitive answer on the this point.

http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,91152.msg1049282.html#msg1049282

[NHBagger]

[/quote]
Since this was brought up, what is the CR of the 110 kit with a .030?  I have seen 10.2, 10.5 and 10.75 for numbers?  In my case, talking wethead.  Curious as I will be running TTS100 cams, and not sure how much compression they can handle before the CCP gets too high.
[/quote]

Anyone??

[TorQuePimp]

about 10.8

This question has already been answered 

[ReapersWG]

So I've been reading all the posts and I'm unsure if this kit will work for me. I'm running the old stage 4 kit with SE 110 plus heads. With a 95cc chamber this cylinder and pistons kit won't work and as I've read the SE 10.5 pistons don't work in this kit. So what are my options other than milling my heads so much they'd be junk if I ever went bigger. Sounds like I might as well bore my cases and go 117. Any thoughts or suggestions?

[rigidthumper]

Either an expensive 117 or, for less $, Suburban Speed offers a 107 high compression piston for the 110+ heads (have yours ported) and add a better matching cam for a nice bump.

[FSG]

Can these jugs be bought separately? Will they fit the 88 CI cases?

4 inch bore 4 inch stroke. I know I'd need pistons for the stroke, reason for asking if the jugs are available.

a lot of $$$$ for 6 cubes if your at 95cu" now and if not then just go 98cu"

[bwernicke]

I've got one of these kits installed with a dark horse bottom end. While riding from Chicago to Memphis my wife and I noticed a vibration in the footboard we have never felt in 80k miles of riding. By the time we got to a local Harley dealer we barely had any oil pressure.

The dealer was closing and would not even look at it. They are assuming the crank walked causing the drop in oil pressure.

The dealership that completed the build is on their way here with a loaner bike and will take mine back home. I'll update this thread as I hear back. Specs on my build can be found in the dyno forum.

I am pretty disappointed. I spent quite a bit on this build but I also appreciate the customer service from the Harley dealership that did the build. They are doing the right thing here for sure.

As an update to this I talked to the dealership this morning. The main bearing (right) walked. The Timken conversion was done on the left.

This right main Bearing walking cracked the oil pump, and pretty much destroyed everything in the cam chest possibly including the cases.

With all that destruction in the cam chest the entire top end of the motor was also destroyed from the metal debris.

Yikes. Can that main bearing be secured?

[Tattoo]

yes it can that is why I was asking if Darkhorse installed the crank or not.

[Barrett]

I've got one of these kits installed with a dark horse bottom end. While riding from Chicago to Memphis my wife and I noticed a vibration in the footboard we have never felt in 80k miles of riding. By the time we got to a local Harley dealer we barely had any oil pressure.

The dealer was closing and would not even look at it. They are assuming the crank walked causing the drop in oil pressure.

The dealership that completed the build is on their way here with a loaner bike and will take mine back home. I'll update this thread as I hear back. Specs on my build can be found in the dyno forum.

I am pretty disappointed. I spent quite a bit on this build but I also appreciate the customer service from the Harley dealership that did the build. They are doing the right thing here for sure.

As an update to this I talked to the dealership this morning. The main bearing (right) walked. The Timken conversion was done on the left.

This right main Bearing walking cracked the oil pump, and pretty much destroyed everything in the cam chest possibly including the cases.

With all that destruction in the cam chest the entire top end of the motor was also destroyed from the metal debris.

Yikes. Can that main bearing be secured?

There's a good reason my parts are still in boxes.. I said I wanted that bearing secured and the guy who would be doing the Timken conversion said he never saw a problem with that bearing walking and didn't do anything with it. That was after I saw the pics of them walking. I'm about ready to sell all of it and by another Ninja..

[m1marty]

I had Randy at KOC do my bottom end. Along with the Timken, he installed a Lefty bearing on the right side and installed some retaining screws to hold it in place. Seeing the above posts make me glad I opted to do that.

[Good_Apollo]

I had Randy at KOC do my bottom end. Along with the Timken, he installed a Lefty bearing on the right side and installed some retaining screws to hold it in place. Seeing the above posts make me glad I opted to do that.

Amen to that, I'm going to do a build with this 110 drop in kit, but I am just going to send my whole lower end to DH and have them do everything, piece of mind especially after reading the above. Pretty sad, sounds like the rest of the build was solid.

[bwernicke]

I had Randy at KOC do my bottom end. Along with the Timken, he installed a Lefty bearing on the right side and installed some retaining screws to hold it in place. Seeing the above posts make me glad I opted to do that.

Amen to that, I'm going to do a build with this 110 drop in kit, but I am just going to send my whole lower end to DH and have them do everything, piece of mind especially after reading the above. Pretty sad, sounds like the rest of the build was solid.

Yeah I just confirmed that the Harley dealer did the Timken conversion, not Darkhorse.

It is sad. This dealer has been great to work with. I'll be curious to see how this all turns out.

[Cvoharleyrider]

Likely dealer did not check line bore of cases before installing Timken

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Tattoo]

Likely dealer did not check line bore of cases before installing Timken

Customer isn't sure if the Dealer or Darkhorse did the Timken conversion. I will say I have many Darkhorse timken conversions on the road with not one issue.

[1FSTRK]

Likely dealer did not check line bore of cases before installing Timken

Customer isn't sure if the Dealer or Darkhorse did the Timken conversion. I will say I have many Darkhorse timken conversions on the road with not one issue.

I had Randy at KOC do my bottom end. Along with the Timken, he installed a Lefty bearing on the right side and installed some retaining screws to hold it in place. Seeing the above posts make me glad I opted to do that.

Amen to that, I'm going to do a build with this 110 drop in kit, but I am just going to send my whole lower end to DH and have them do everything, piece of mind especially after reading the above. Pretty sad, sounds like the rest of the build was solid.

Yeah I just confirmed that the Harley dealer did the Timken conversion, not Darkhorse.

It is sad. This dealer has been great to work with. I'll be curious to see how this all turns out.

[Tattoo]

well that answers the question and they should be 100% responsible. 

[mike jesse]

Per the above instruction sheet, #92500050 would get me the 117 pistons, rings, and cylinders in black.

[FSG]

Per the above instruction sheet, #92500050 would get me the 117 pistons, rings, and cylinders in black.

http://www.harley-davidson.com/app-content/service/isheets/-J06284.PDF

[prodrag1320]

Either an expensive 117 or, for less $, Suburban Speed offers a 107 high compression piston for the 110+ heads (have yours ported) and add a better matching cam for a nice bump.

we also have high compression 107" piston kits for 110 heads

[Don D]

So I've been reading all the posts and I'm unsure if this kit will work for me. I'm running the old stage 4 kit with SE 110 plus heads. With a 95cc chamber this cylinder and pistons kit won't work and as I've read the SE 10.5 pistons don't work in this kit. So what are my options other than milling my heads so much they'd be junk if I ever went bigger. Sounds like I might as well bore my cases and go 117. Any thoughts or suggestions?

I stock Diamond Racing coated 4032 10cc domed pistons for the 117

[strokerjlk]

Darkhorse Bottom End including the Following:

DH-2164-BRG BRG.SET, CONN.ROD ROLLER
DH-7670 T/C COMP. CONN. ROD SET
DH-HDPIN-A CRANKPIN,2-HOLE, CENTOLS.GR
DH-SC-B SERVICE CRANKSHAFT W/BAL
DHC-PP PRO PLUG CRANKSHAFT
DHC-RCSS CENTER OE SPR. SHAFT, 07+
DHC-WELD WELD CRANKPIN

That was the description of work done by dark horse. I'm not sure what all of those descriptions mean.
The oil pump that was installed by the dealership was from zippers.

Curious . Who wanted the bottom end done on a drop in kit, dealership ? Or was it something you wanted ?

[bwernicke]

Darkhorse Bottom End including the Following:

DH-2164-BRG BRG.SET, CONN.ROD ROLLER
DH-7670 T/C COMP. CONN. ROD SET
DH-HDPIN-A CRANKPIN,2-HOLE, CENTOLS.GR
DH-SC-B SERVICE CRANKSHAFT W/BAL
DHC-PP PRO PLUG CRANKSHAFT
DHC-RCSS CENTER OE SPR. SHAFT, 07+
DHC-WELD WELD CRANKPIN

That was the description of work done by dark horse. I'm not sure what all of those descriptions mean.
The oil pump that was installed by the dealership was from zippers.

Curious . Who wanted the bottom end done on a drop in kit, dealership ? Or was it something you wanted ?

The stock bottom end was also slowly failing with the crank walking. The dealership would not upgrade the top without checking the bottom. The motor company contributed about $3k in warranty money to address the bottom end issues.

I am no expert and i instructed the dealer to make the decisions for the build. The requirements I gave them were torque for 2 up riding on long road trips along with reliability. I spent approximately $11k on the build in addition to the money provided by Harley.

As a side note, the dealership did the right thing when this broke down. They delivered me a 2015 ultra (as a loaner) from Woodstock Illinois to cape girardo, Missouri (a 6 hour drive) and took my bike back with them. I was able to finish my trip.

[strokerjlk]

Darkhorse Bottom End including the Following:

DH-2164-BRG BRG.SET, CONN.ROD ROLLER
DH-7670 T/C COMP. CONN. ROD SET
DH-HDPIN-A CRANKPIN,2-HOLE, CENTOLS.GR
DH-SC-B SERVICE CRANKSHAFT W/BAL
DHC-PP PRO PLUG CRANKSHAFT
DHC-RCSS CENTER OE SPR. SHAFT, 07+
DHC-WELD WELD CRANKPIN

That was the description of work done by dark horse. I'm not sure what all of those descriptions mean.
The oil pump that was installed by the dealership was from zippers.

Curious . Who wanted the bottom end done on a drop in kit, dealership ? Or was it something you wanted ?

The stock bottom end was also slowly failing with the crank walking. The dealership would not upgrade the top without checking the bottom. The motor company contributed about $3k in warranty money to address the bottom end issues.

I am no expert and i instructed the dealer to make the decisions for the build. The requirements I gave them were torque for 2 up riding on long road trips along with reliability. I spent approximately $11k on the build in addition to the money provided by Harley.

As a side note, the dealership did the right thing when this broke down. They delivered me a 2015 ultra (as a loaner) from Woodstock Illinois to cape girardo, Missouri (a 6 hour drive) and took my bike back with them. I was able to finish my trip.

Thank you . Maybe discuss a 120 ST replacement with the dealership . Everyone would be money ahead , and the lefty bearing is secured already .14,000 for a drop in 110/117 kit , is ridiculous . I can see them stepping up .
Good luck whatever happens .

[IronMike113]

Wow that is INSANE for that kind of money...... 

[Tattoo]

"14,000 for a drop in 110/117 kit , is ridiculous"

I would really like to see where those numbers are coming from.

[Nastytls]

Many dealers are screwing people for well over $100per hr labor. If thats the case here I can see the cost getting out of control very quickly. For that money he should have just bought a S&S 124'' or even143''.

[Hossamania]

"14,000 for a drop in 110/117 kit , is ridiculous"

I would really like to see where those numbers are coming from.

Post 146: Harley contributed $3000, and he has another $11,000 into the build.

[bwernicke]

The invoice pages are attached. I paid $13250.49 which included a mustang seat and grab rails. The HD Moco contributed an additional $2655.51 for the warranty. That work is on page 1.

[bwernicke]

Here are the rest of the invoice pages.

[Tattoo]

I see you had other things besides motor work Tires ,ETC.. but that still sounds high compared to what we charge. What is there labor rate??

[bwernicke]

The labor total on the motor job only was $2496.  See page 3. It looks like $96 an hour and 26 hours.

[bwernicke]

They have offered to replace the motor it as at no charge. The only difference being it would be a 113 instead of a 110. It needs new cases and everything.

They are also are checking how they could get me into a 120R. Thoughts on that? I am taking this thread way off topic now I guess.

[Tattoo]

you had to get full exhaust ,Race tuner and all the other stuff you would have needed for a crate motor as well. it still sounds high to me and I hope they take care of you either way.

[strokerjlk]

They have offered to replace the motor it as at no charge. The only difference being it would be a 113 instead of a 110. It needs new cases and everything.

They are also are checking how they could get me into a 120R. Thoughts on that? I am taking this thread way off topic now I guess.

push them for a 120 st or the 120r . the st would suite your riding style better.

[bwernicke]

They have offered to replace the motor it as at no charge. The only difference being it would be a 113 instead of a 110. It needs new cases and everything.

They are also are checking how they could get me into a 120R. Thoughts on that? I am taking this thread way off topic now I guess.

push them for a 120 st or the 120r . the st would suite your riding style better.

A stock 120ST?

[strokerjlk]

They have offered to replace the motor it as at no charge. The only difference being it would be a 113 instead of a 110. It needs new cases and everything.

They are also are checking how they could get me into a 120R. Thoughts on that? I am taking this thread way off topic now I guess.

push them for a 120 st or the 120r . the st would suite your riding style better.

A stock 120ST?

YES .
they feel really good with the 259 cams. the 266 cams in the r motor will make more HP. but the 259 in the S/T  feels better
http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,90905.0.html

[FlaHeatWave]

They have offered to replace the motor it as at no charge. The only difference being it would be a 113 instead of a 110. It needs new cases and everything.

They are also are checking how they could get me into a 120R. Thoughts on that? I am taking this thread way off topic now I guess.

push them for a 120 st or the 120r . the st would suite your riding style better.

A stock 120ST?

I'd go with the ST...

If the Dealer is eating everything including new cases, the 120 ST is a good deal for them too...

$13k+ in a 110 is insane!! You could buy 2 S&S 124s for that kind of $$$

[sfmichael]

Many dealers are screwing people for well over $100per hr labor. If thats the case here I can see the cost getting out of control very quickly. For that money he should have just bought a S&S 124'' or even143''.

Why don't you buy a dealership and see what it costs to run it and still try to turn a profit?

[sfmichael]

They have offered to replace the motor it as at no charge. The only difference being it would be a 113 instead of a 110. It needs new cases and everything.

They are also are checking how they could get me into a 120R. Thoughts on that? I am taking this thread way off topic now I guess.

push them for a 120 st or the 120r . the st would suite your riding style better.

A stock 120ST?

I'd go with the ST...

If the Dealer is eating everything including new cases, the 120 ST is a good deal for them too...

$13k+ in a 110 is insane!! You could buy 2 S&S 124s for that kind of $$$

Tell me where I can go get a new S&S 124 installed and tuned along with all the required associated parts needed to put it all together for $6500 and I'll be there Monday morning.

[Hossamania]

Many dealers are screwing people for well over $100per hr labor. If thats the case here I can see the cost getting out of control very quickly. For that money he should have just bought a S&S 124'' or even143''.

Why don't you buy a dealership and see what it costs to run it and still try to turn a profit?

I'm right there with you. I see a lot of complaining about hourly shop rates, by people who don't own shops.

[bwernicke]

Many dealers are screwing people for well over $100per hr labor. If thats the case here I can see the cost getting out of control very quickly. For that money he should have just bought a S&S 124'' or even143''.

Why don't you buy a dealership and see what it costs to run it and still try to turn a profit?

I'm right there with you. I see a lot of complaining about hourly shop rates, by people who don't own shops.

I do business with my dealer because their service is outstanding. I paid a lot for my build and I loved it. When it broke down my dealer drove 500 miles and brought me a loaner bike and said keep it until we make yours right. I was able to finish my trip.

I don't mind paying a premium for that kind of service. My family has done business with this dealer for years and they treat us very well.

It does appear that I will end up with a 120st. I will know for sure on Monday.

I also appreciate everything I've learned here. I am no mechanic but I've learned quite a bit following you guys for the past 9 months and I plan to become a donating supporter.

[sfmichael]

That's what I like to hear. It shouldn't always be about price. I've been in the service business all my life and truly appreciate customers that share your feelings.
I never wanted to be the cheapest...but I do try to be the best. 

[FlaHeatWave]

Many dealers are screwing people for well over $100per hr labor. If thats the case here I can see the cost getting out of control very quickly. For that money he should have just bought a S&S 124'' or even143''.

Why don't you buy a dealership and see what it costs to run it and still try to turn a profit?

I'm right there with you. I see a lot of complaining about hourly shop rates, by people who don't own shops.

I do business with my dealer because their service is outstanding. I paid a lot for my build and I loved it. When it broke down my dealer drove 500 miles and brought me a loaner bike and said keep it until we make yours right. I was able to finish my trip.

I don't mind paying a premium for that kind of service. My family has done business with this dealer for years and they treat us very well.

It does appear that I will end up with a 120st. I will know for sure on Monday.

I also appreciate everything I've learned here. I am no mechanic but I've learned quite a bit following you guys for the past 9 months and I plan to become a donating supporter.

Dealers like yours are few and far between anymore... 'Had a similar relationship with my local Dealer until they sold out to a "used car dealer" conglomerate

[bwernicke]

Many dealers are screwing people for well over $100per hr labor. If thats the case here I can see the cost getting out of control very quickly. For that money he should have just bought a S&S 124'' or even143''.

Why don't you buy a dealership and see what it costs to run it and still try to turn a profit?

I'm right there with you. I see a lot of complaining about hourly shop rates, by people who don't own shops.

I do business with my dealer because their service is outstanding. I paid a lot for my build and I loved it. When it broke down my dealer drove 500 miles and brought me a loaner bike and said keep it until we make yours right. I was able to finish my trip.

I don't mind paying a premium for that kind of service. My family has done business with this dealer for years and they treat us very well.

It does appear that I will end up with a 120st. I will know for sure on Monday.

I also appreciate everything I've learned here. I am no mechanic but I've learned quite a bit following you guys for the past 9 months and I plan to become a donating supporter.

Dealers like yours are few and far between anymore... 'Had a similar relationship with my local Dealer until they sold out to a "used car dealer" conglomerate

I also agree with your points. There are five dealers closer to me than the one I do business with.

I ride more than an hour one way to get serviced for that very reason.

[Nastytls]

Owned and operated my own business for many years. I chose to make my money on volume rather than attempting to bleed every last penny out of every customer. Funny, the Japanese, Euro, Indian/Victory dealers around here charge nowhere near what the HD dealers do. I'm pretty sure they aren't operating at a loss...

Many dealers are screwing people for well over $100per hr labor. If thats the case here I can see the cost getting out of control very quickly. For that money he should have just bought a S&S 124'' or even143''.

Why don't you buy a dealership and see what it costs to run it and still try to turn a profit?

[Hossamania]

One difference between your independent shop and the dealership's is that they also have to pay franchise fees. The HD dealers also have to pay for upgrades mandated by HD. Not saying they charge too much or not, just mentioning overhead costs. It would be interesting to see what the other brand dealers charge compared to HD.
I have an Indy shop near me that I use that tries to keep their hourly rate down, same as you, going for volume sales and long term customers. So far it has worked for them.

[rockytop117]

Many dealers are screwing people for well over $100per hr labor. If thats the case here I can see the cost getting out of control very quickly. For that money he should have just bought a S&S 124'' or even143''.

Why don't you buy a dealership and see what it costs to run it and still try to turn a profit?

I'm right there with you. I see a lot of complaining about hourly shop rates, by people who don't own shops.

I do business with my dealer because their service is outstanding. I paid a lot for my build and I loved it. When it broke down my dealer drove 500 miles and brought me a loaner bike and said keep it until we make yours right. I was able to finish my trip.

I don't mind paying a premium for that kind of service. My family has done business with this dealer for years and they treat us very well.

It does appear that I will end up with a 120st. I will know for sure on Monday.

I also appreciate everything I've learned here. I am no mechanic but I've learned quite a bit following you guys for the past 9 months and I plan to become a donating supporter.

Dealers like yours are few and far between anymore... 'Had a similar relationship with my local Dealer until they sold out to a "used car dealer" conglomerate

I previously worked for that conglomerate (Terry Taylor/AMSI) if your speaking of the Rossmeyer's group of HD dealers!

[FlaHeatWave]

Many dealers are screwing people for well over $100per hr labor. If thats the case here I can see the cost getting out of control very quickly. For that money he should have just bought a S&S 124'' or even143''.

Why don't you buy a dealership and see what it costs to run it and still try to turn a profit?

I'm right there with you. I see a lot of complaining about hourly shop rates, by people who don't own shops.

I do business with my dealer because their service is outstanding. I paid a lot for my build and I loved it. When it broke down my dealer drove 500 miles and brought me a loaner bike and said keep it until we make yours right. I was able to finish my trip.

I don't mind paying a premium for that kind of service. My family has done business with this dealer for years and they treat us very well.

It does appear that I will end up with a 120st. I will know for sure on Monday.

I also appreciate everything I've learned here. I am no mechanic but I've learned quite a bit following you guys for the past 9 months and I plan to become a donating supporter.

Dealers like yours are few and far between anymore... 'Had a similar relationship with my local Dealer until they sold out to a "used car dealer" conglomerate

I previously worked for that conglomerate (Terry Taylor/AMSI) if your speaking of the Rossmeyer's group of HD dealers!

No, I am in the Panhandle it's an outfit out of Louisiana...
It doesn't really matter, they are pretty much all the same...

[00se]

In my area the two Harley dealers charge about $90.00 an hour. The Newly opened Indian Dealer charges $90.00 an hour. They have hired a very good Harley mechanic. Reading on a Indian form, some dealers are charging $130.00 an hour.

[JCleary]

Many dealers are screwing people for well over $100per hr labor. If thats the case here I can see the cost getting out of control very quickly. For that money he should have just bought a S&S 124'' or even143''.

Why don't you buy a dealership and see what it costs to run it and still try to turn a profit?

I'm right there with you. I see a lot of complaining about hourly shop rates, by people who don't own shops.

I do business with my dealer because their service is outstanding. I paid a lot for my build and I loved it. When it broke down my dealer drove 500 miles and brought me a loaner bike and said keep it until we make yours right. I was able to finish my trip.

I don't mind paying a premium for that kind of service. My family has done business with this dealer for years and they treat us very well.

It does appear that I will end up with a 120st. I will know for sure on Monday.

I also appreciate everything I've learned here. I am no mechanic but I've learned quite a bit following you guys for the past 9 months and I plan to become a donating supporter.

Word.  I'll gladly pay full pop if I get service like that!

I know around here, you have to pay a guy at least $25-$30 an hour plus bennies to get a tech.  That's at least $50//hr cost.  Add the shop overhead, power, etc and it's easy to justify $100-$125 per hour.

My local Audi dealer is $200/hr LOL

[Tattoo]

   you see comments from some saying dealers don't pay there techs/parts people enough then some complain about the labor rate being to high. 

[Rockout Rocker Products]

  you see comments from some saying dealers don't pay there techs/parts people enough then some complain about the labor rate being to high. 

I think the problem is when both are true 

I don't know what they pay employees at the dealers around here but one thing's for sure.... it's not enough to keep them.

[koko3052]

Maybe off topic here, but if moco wanted to make a little coin, plus keep sales prices down , don't you think that just MAYBE use some parts, bearings & seals, that are standard dimensions instead of being proprietary? I have a problem with a company that wants/needs to make the most both from initial sale plus parts!
Beat me if I'm wrong!

[rigidthumper]

Maybe off topic here, but if moco wanted to make a little coin, plus keep sales prices down , don't you think that just MAYBE use some parts, bearings & seals, that are standard dimensions instead of being proprietary? I have a problem with a company that wants/needs to make the most both from initial sale plus parts!
Beat me if I'm wrong!

New engineers have to come up with something different to justify their big paycheck, and they have to have that big paycheck to cover their student loans.

[Helomech74]

Can the 110 bolt on cylinders be purchased without the entire kit?  I've considered using them with my own parts for a build.  If they can be purchased by themselves, does anyone have the part number?

[FSG]

does anyone have the part number?

http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,87566.msg995279.html#msg995279

[Helomech74]

Thanks a bunch. 

[tmwmoose]

With the cyl being this tool steel what does HD say about being  able to be ball honed for a new ring set if needed way down the road ? 

[bwernicke]

They have offered to replace the motor it as at no charge. The only difference being it would be a 113 instead of a 110. It needs new cases and everything.

They are also are checking how they could get me into a 120R. Thoughts on that? I am taking this thread way off topic now I guess.

push them for a 120 st or the 120r . the st would suite your riding style better.

A stock 120ST?

YES .
they feel really good with the 259 cams. the 266 cams in the r motor will make more HP. but the 259 in the S/T  feels better
http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,90905.0.html

I ended up with the 120ST. I picked it up Friday. The dealership covered everything.

The 120ST comes with a one year motor company warranty and since my bike had less than 75k miles I extended that to a five year motor company warranty on the whole bike for $3k including wheel and tire.

I put 500 miles on the motor this weekend and taking it from Chicago to glacier national park and back starting this Friday.

It pulls real good. 118/128. Dyno posted in the dyno forum. I think I'll do even better if I dump the rinehart high flow baffle.

Thanks for the advice. I think I'll be very happy with this decision!

[TorQuePimp]

A ball hone won't work

[klammer76]

Will the 110 kits work on earlier FL's (06 and earlier) that have been taken to 103 with S&S 4 3/8 lower end (traditional rods not tapered)?

Thanks,
klammer

[Tattoo]

I believe the pistons have to me modified to except the non tapered connecting rods.

[lonewolf]

I believe the pistons have to me modified to except the non tapered connecting rods.

[attach=0]

[Tattoo]

 

[klammer76]

Thanks, that is what I though the answer would be. I had heard the pistons could be modified, nice to see a picture 

[HD/Wrench]

The process is a simple one However I had a bike come in first of the year that had a cracked  piston. It started from the machined area and was working its way out. It would have a very odd rattle at times. If you do not use the right tooling it could leave a stress riser . In this case I think that is what happened to that one.. 

But mahle does this on the custom pistons you order and many many other shops have done it.. Provided it is done correctly you will be fine

[rbabos]

The process is a simple one However I had a bike come in first of the year that had a cracked  piston. It started from the machined area and was working its way out. It would have a very odd rattle at times. If you do not use the right tooling it could leave a stress riser . In this case I think that is what happened to that one.. 

But mahle does this on the custom pistons you order and many many other shops have done it.. Provided it is done correctly you will be fine

Should be fine with ample radius at the bottom of the cut.
Ron

[Don D]

A rounding end mill

[HD/Wrench]

Yes that is 100% correct , as I said the proper tooling