Bagger Brace or True Track

[rking1550]

Bikes a 01 roadking,  last year had some high speed wobble issues.
Did new neck bearing and put in a set of Rivera "stiffy" bushings,  the one that go inside the rubber at the seeing arm pivot. And a new rear tire.
All seemed well last year.

This year at slightly above highway speeds (85-95) I'm getting a bad wobble again,  I call it the death wobble.  I know I shouldn't be riding at those speeds but 80 is just cruising with traffic and the bike should be stable at higher speed anyway.

Here's my thoughts, I want to go thru the swing arm and replace all parts there. They are 15 years old and original to the bike. Remove the "stiffy" bushing,  I feel too much vibration back thru the rest of the bike with them.

Then after add either the Bagger Brace or True Track, which is better and why ?
Thanks for any info and opinions. [emoji482]

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[masstch]

These early frames have two separate design issues that need to be addressed: 1.) the swing arm bushings (Cleve blocks) and 2.) the mushy motor / swing arm mounting system. OK, there's a third issue also...StaBo makes two products that help a good deal. They have Delrin bushings to replace those awful Cleve blocks inside the swing arm and that is a must-do regardless how you address the other part of the equation. The mount system (mainly the "donuts") allows the back of the  engine to move sideways and there are several products that are made to reduce that movement. Tru-track, alloyArt, Bagger Brace are linkages, StaBo does it with spacers (separate from the swing arm bushings). I prefer the spacers as they are effective and totally reversible in minutes and they are also way cheap!
I once wrote a bunch about the things http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/hot-topics/105194-sta-bo-works.html

[rking1550]

These early frames have two separate design issues that need to be addressed: 1.) the swing arm bushings (Cleve blocks) and 2.) the mushy motor / swing arm mounting system. OK, there's a third issue also...StaBo makes two products that help a good deal. They have Delrin bushings to replace those awful Cleve blocks inside the swing arm and that is a must-do regardless how you address the other part of the equation. The mount system (mainly the "donuts") allows the back of the  engine to move sideways and there are several products that are made to reduce that movement. Tru-track, alloyArt, Bagger Brace are linkages, StaBo does it with spacers (separate from the swing arm bushings). I prefer the spacers as they are effective and totally reversible in minutes and they are also way cheap!
I once wrote a bunch about the things http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/hot-topics/105194-sta-bo-works.html

I forgot about the Sta-bo stuff, I'll have to look into that more, before I start buying parts. And read the info on the link you posted.
Thanks

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[masstch]

There's more.  The Third Issue mentioned above is proper alignment. How to achieve it is a little involved but for me, with my bike, taking the time to do this correctly paid great dividends. The first problem was creating a method that actually *worked*.
I have a history with this issue and a more serious high speed wobble issue and spent quite a lot of time chasing causes .
I finally determined the cause and a fix that worked for me and my '01 RK.
I finally wrote it down (with pics) see post #23 in this thread http://www.doofclenas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180526&highlight=Fork+options%2C

Note that that is a years-old thread that has been resurrected, so be sure to jump to the second page.

[Admiral Akbar]

IIRC the Revera Stiffy is an aluminum version of Stabo..  I would use the stabo over the aluminum as the Delrin they use has better self lubricating qualities.. 

If you want to improve the swing arm to tranny count, I'd got with CCE swing arm bearing conversion, and / or upgrade to a later 2002 swingarm. You will need to convert the rear axle to 1 inch but it corrects issues with the older pre 2002 swing arm cracking.  I really don't care for the Stabo swingarm bushing as you are relying on a Delrin bushing to keep the swingarm straight and where the steel inner sleeve hits meets the tranny is smaller than even the old cleeve block system..

[attach=0]

[Admiral Akbar]

There's more.  The Third Issue mentioned above is proper alignment. How to achieve it is a little involved but for me, with my bike, taking the time to do this correctly paid great dividends. The first problem was creating a method that actually *worked*.
I have a history with this issue and a more serious high speed wobble issue and spend quite a lot of time chasing causes .
I finally determined the cause and a fix that worked for me and an '01 RK.
I finally wrote it down (with pics) see post #23 in this thread http://www.doofclenas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180526&highlight=Fork+options%2C

Note that that is a years-old thread that has been resurrected, so be sure to jump to the second page.

Don't see anything in post 23..

[masstch]

Sorry, I messed up the link but it *starts* there. Several more posts in the same thread.
On my phone right now. Will see if I can get the link to the thread fixed in a bit.
Here's the whole thread, you'll have to skip to the second page or so
http://www.doofclenas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180526&highlight=Fork+options

[rking1550]

IIRC the Revera Stiffy is an aluminum version of Stabo..  I would use the stabo over the aluminum as the Delrin they use has better self lubricating qualities.. 

If you want to improve the swing arm to tranny count, I'd got with CCE swing arm bearing conversion, and / or upgrade to a later 2002 swingarm. You will need to convert the rear axle to 1 inch but it corrects issues with the older pre 2002 swing arm cracking.  I really don't care for the Stabo swingarm bushing as you are relying on a Delrin bushing to keep the swingarm straight and where the steel inner sleeve hits meets the tranny is smaller than even the old cleeve block system..

[attach=0]

The Stiffy is aluminum, just pushed into the stock rubber donuts, not sure if that's the same as the sta-bo.

Sure looks like I've got a lot of reading to do.  My original thought was to rebuild the swing arm with all stock parts,  they lasted 15 years.
And add the True Track or Bagger Brace. I might have to rethink that now.

Didn't really want to go to the 02 and up swing arm.  I understand some of the benifits tho.
Just didn't want to have to worry about reeming out the tranny. Get new wheel bearings and 1" axel.
But I thought I saw a kit some where to use the newer swing arm and not have to reem the tranny. But I think it was expensive and can't find it now.

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[masstch]

The link i posted is to a forum that for some damn reason is experiencing technical difficulties.... weird, but I can connect on Tap-a-Talk but not a PC.... it'll be fixed soon, though

[Admiral Akbar]

The link i posted is to a forum that for some damn reason is experiencing technical difficulties.... weird, but I can connect on Tap-a-Talk but not a PC.... it'll be fixed soon, though

That forum has so much crap on it, don't know how you can find anything.. Good luck on that..

[masstch]

The link i posted is to a forum that for some damn reason is experiencing technical difficulties.... weird, but I can connect on Tap-a-Talk but not a PC.... it'll be fixed soon, though

That forum has so much crap on it, don't know how you can find anything.. Good luck on that..

Did the link to the topic work this time, Max?  The explanation of my alignment method begins about post 26.

[Admiral Akbar]

The link i posted is to a forum that for some damn reason is experiencing technical difficulties.... weird, but I can connect on Tap-a-Talk but not a PC.... it'll be fixed soon, though

That forum has so much crap on it, don't know how you can find anything.. Good luck on that..

Did the link to the topic work this time, Max?  The explanation of my alignment method begins about post 26.

Got it.. Much better.. Need to go through it..

[masstch]

The point of it is primarily the problem I have with the often-cited GlidePro video. The guy uses a sketchy reference, but since the factory manual offers no reference at all, his seems plausible. Except that it doesn't always work.


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[Admiral Akbar]

IIRC the Revera Stiffy is an aluminum version of Stabo..  I would use the stabo over the aluminum as the Delrin they use has better self lubricating qualities.. 

If you want to improve the swing arm to tranny count, I'd got with CCE swing arm bearing conversion, and / or upgrade to a later 2002 swingarm. You will need to convert the rear axle to 1 inch but it corrects issues with the older pre 2002 swing arm cracking.  I really don't care for the Stabo swingarm bushing as you are relying on a Delrin bushing to keep the swingarm straight and where the steel inner sleeve hits meets the tranny is smaller than even the old cleeve block system..

[attach=0]

The Stiffy is aluminum, just pushed into the stock rubber donuts, not sure if that's the same as the sta-bo.

Sure looks like I've got a lot of reading to do.  My original thought was to rebuild the swing arm with all stock parts,  they lasted 15 years.
And add the True Track or Bagger Brace. I might have to rethink that now.

Didn't really want to go to the 02 and up swing arm.  I understand some of the benifits tho.
Just didn't want to have to worry about reeming out the tranny. Get new wheel bearings and 1" axel.
But I thought I saw a kit some where to use the newer swing arm and not have to reem the tranny. But I think it was expensive and can't find it now.

You can buy the SA kit for the early bikes that still use the old swingarm and pivot axle..

https://www.customcycleengineering.com/Category/Swing_Arm_Kits-2

[attach=1]


They are in the drag catalog so you can order them from California Phil or any other favorite supplier..

Stabo stabilizer is exactly the same same as the Stiffy but made from plastic as I stated above.. You can still get some vibes but the plastic is a better bearing material than aluminum. Both the stabo and stiffy need to slip on the steel plate that's inside donuts to provide vertical isolation of the rubber mounts but not let them squarsh..

If you go with the CCE system with their Axle you can use bagger nuts which support the frame from the outside using delrin bushings.. Works even better than stabo and no links to wear out..

[Admiral Akbar]

The point of it is primarily the problem I have with the often-cited GlidePro video. The guy uses a sketchy reference, but since the factory manual offers no reference at all, his seems plausible. Except that it doesn't always work.

I agree. I prefer to line  up the rear wheel with the drive train and adjust the rear wheel so it points dead center of the front wheel. Get the wheel straight with each other then use the digital protractor to get then wheel in the same vertical plane.

[JW113]

I just changed those spherical swing arm bearings in a '04 RK. Was not impressed how loose they were. And they have essentially no lubrication so how can they not wear out? I replaced with All Balls, same as stock type. But sorta of wish I had given these a try Sta-Bo. Anyone used these?

-JW

[attach=1]

[masstch]

The point of it is primarily the problem I have with the often-cited GlidePro video. The guy uses a sketchy reference, but since the factory manual offers no reference at all, his seems plausible. Except that it doesn't always work.

I agree. I prefer to line  up the rear wheel with the drive train and adjust the rear wheel so it points dead center of the front wheel. Get the wheel straight with each other then use the digital protractor to get then wheel in the same vertical plane.

That's the reason I went through the process I did, in order to attain a true "steering neck ~the whole frame~ is now vertical" reference. You can't align the vertical (plumb) of the rear with the front.... unless you have the front perfectly centered with the frame *first, and then plumb. That's what the whole procedure is built around, attaining a "true plumb" reference.

[jsachs1]

Also, if using non-air rear shocks, you need to set the sag properly.
After laser alignment, and the "Touring Link" adjusting the shock sag made the major difference on my SEEG.
John

[rking1550]

Also, if using non-air rear shocks, you need to set the sag properly.
After laser alignment, and the "Touring Link" adjusting the shock sag made the major difference.
John

Yes, I'm using non air shocks, I've got a set of ohlins from Howard. Sag is set but I'll be sure to re check it when it's time,  thanks for the tip.

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[JohnCA58]

I just changed those spherical swing arm bearings in a '04 RK. Was not impressed how loose they were. And they have essentially no lubrication so how can they not wear out? I replaced with All Balls, same as stock type. But sorta of wish I had given these a try Sta-Bo. Anyone used these?

-JW

[attach=1]

JW,  if your asking about the Sta-bo,  I have been running them for the last 10 years on my bike along with the Bitchin Bagger brace, the bike is rock solid on any sweepers or twisties at any speed.  when I check my swing arm movement, I use a 3 foot pry bar and dial indicator on the swing arm and only get about .030 flex with a good pry.

[jmorton10]

JW,  if your asking about the Sta-bo,  I have been running them for the last 10 years on my bike along with the Bitchin Bagger brace, the bike is rock solid on any sweepers or twisties at any speed.

That is exactly the same setup I use & I agree the bike handles like it's on rails at any speed......

~John

[rking1550]

IIRC the Revera Stiffy is an aluminum version of Stabo..  I would use the stabo over the aluminum as the Delrin they use has better self lubricating qualities.. 

If you want to improve the swing arm to tranny count, I'd got with CCE swing arm bearing conversion, and / or upgrade to a later 2002 swingarm. You will need to convert the rear axle to 1 inch but it corrects issues with the older pre 2002 swing arm cracking.  I really don't care for the Stabo swingarm bushing as you are relying on a Delrin bushing to keep the swingarm straight and where the steel inner sleeve hits meets the tranny is smaller than even the old cleeve block system..

[attach=0]

The Stiffy is aluminum, just pushed into the stock rubber donuts, not sure if that's the same as the sta-bo.

Sure looks like I've got a lot of reading to do.  My original thought was to rebuild the swing arm with all stock parts,  they lasted 15 years.
And add the True Track or Bagger Brace. I might have to rethink that now.

Didn't really want to go to the 02 and up swing arm.  I understand some of the benifits tho.
Just didn't want to have to worry about reeming out the tranny. Get new wheel bearings and 1" axel.
But I thought I saw a kit some where to use the newer swing arm and not have to reem the tranny. But I think it was expensive and can't find it now.

You can buy the SA kit for the early bikes that still use the old swingarm and pivot axle..

https://www.customcycleengineering.com/Category/Swing_Arm_Kits-2

[attach=1]


They are in the drag catalog so you can order them from California Phil or any other favorite supplier..

Stabo stabilizer is exactly the same same as the Stiffy but made from plastic as I stated above.. You can still get some vibes but the plastic is a better bearing material than aluminum. Both the stabo and stiffy need to slip on the steel plate that's inside donuts to provide vertical isolation of the rubber mounts but not let them squarsh..

If you go with the CCE system with their Axle you can use bagger nuts which support the frame from the outside using delrin bushings.. Works even better than stabo and no links to wear out..

Max,  have you used the CCE system ?
I like the idea of it,  keep my swing arm and up grade the internals of it. Just hate to spend 3 bills without any good feedback from a user of it.

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[Admiral Akbar]

IIRC the Revera Stiffy is an aluminum version of Stabo..  I would use the stabo over the aluminum as the Delrin they use has better self lubricating qualities.. 

If you want to improve the swing arm to tranny count, I'd got with CCE swing arm bearing conversion, and / or upgrade to a later 2002 swingarm. You will need to convert the rear axle to 1 inch but it corrects issues with the older pre 2002 swing arm cracking.  I really don't care for the Stabo swingarm bushing as you are relying on a Delrin bushing to keep the swingarm straight and where the steel inner sleeve hits meets the tranny is smaller than even the old cleeve block system..

[attach=0]

The Stiffy is aluminum, just pushed into the stock rubber donuts, not sure if that's the same as the sta-bo.

Sure looks like I've got a lot of reading to do.  My original thought was to rebuild the swing arm with all stock parts,  they lasted 15 years.
And add the True Track or Bagger Brace. I might have to rethink that now.

Didn't really want to go to the 02 and up swing arm.  I understand some of the benifits tho.
Just didn't want to have to worry about reeming out the tranny. Get new wheel bearings and 1" axel.
But I thought I saw a kit some where to use the newer swing arm and not have to reem the tranny. But I think it was expensive and can't find it now.

You can buy the SA kit for the early bikes that still use the old swingarm and pivot axle..

https://www.customcycleengineering.com/Category/Swing_Arm_Kits-2

[attach=1]


They are in the drag catalog so you can order them from California Phil or any other favorite supplier..

Stabo stabilizer is exactly the same same as the Stiffy but made from plastic as I stated above.. You can still get some vibes but the plastic is a better bearing material than aluminum. Both the stabo and stiffy need to slip on the steel plate that's inside donuts to provide vertical isolation of the rubber mounts but not let them squarsh..

If you go with the CCE system with their Axle you can use bagger nuts which support the frame from the outside using delrin bushings.. Works even better than stabo and no links to wear out..

Max,  have you used the CCE system ?
I like the idea of it,  keep my swing arm and up grade the internals of it. Just hate to spend 3 bills without any good feedback from a user of it.

Nope.. It's been in the Drag Catalog for a while.. Someone here has, I believe..  I bought an 02 bagger... 

[rking1550]

I would've liked a 02,  but they weren't out yet when I bought mine in 01. [emoji41]

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[Eglider05]

Max,  have you used the CCE system ?
I like the idea of it,  keep my swing arm and up grade the internals of it. Just hate to spend 3 bills without any good feedback from a user of it.

Not Max, but I used it on my friends 2000 RK. He loves it. I used a rear wheel, swingarm, pulley and belt from a 2006 RK, and drilled out the caliper mounting hole for the bigger axle. This also lets him run a little wider tire.

Rick