Stage kits

[BVHOG]

The stage kits are interesting, they come with adjustable pushrods plus you have the adjustable rockers. will be interesting. I would assume you would set the rockers to be the same and then adjust the pushrods. Wonder what lifters these  motors will have.

[rigidthumper]

Non adjustable rockers, from what I see. Adjustable P-rods due to smaller base circle on the performance cam.

[rbabos]

The stage kits are interesting, they come with adjustable pushrods plus you have the adjustable rockers. will be interesting. I would assume you would set the rockers to be the same and then adjust the pushrods. Wonder what lifters these  motors will have.

You would likely adjust the pushrods as like before, then likely .005-.007 clearance on the rocker adjuster for the one valve. One will remain is typical hydraulic 0 lash while the other has clearance to allow for wear over time. Both valves cannot be set to 0 lash for obvious reasons. One should be a master for the lifters and the other adjusted for clearance. Both valves cannot contact the seat at the same time or the tip to rocker at the same time in the real world.
Well , just looked at the rocker pics. That is one fkd up design unless there's some hidden adjustment we can't see in the pics. Possibly a lash cap on the hydro valve to clearance the other. They would come in varying thickness for adjustments. Rocker shafts also rigid mounted on ends.
Ron

[Rockout Rocker Products]

Rocker shafts also rigid mounted on ends.
Ron

I noticed that too lol

[rbabos]

Rocker shafts also rigid mounted on ends.
Ron

I noticed that too lol

I was thinking of you when I typed that.
Ron

[wfolarry]

The stage kits are interesting, they come with adjustable pushrods plus you have the adjustable rockers. will be interesting. I would assume you would set the rockers to be the same and then adjust the pushrods. Wonder what lifters these  motors will have.

You would likely adjust the pushrods as like before, then likely .005-.007 clearance on the rocker adjuster for the one valve. One will remain is typical hydraulic 0 lash while the other has clearance to allow for wear over time. Both valves cannot be set to 0 lash for obvious reasons. One should be a master for the lifters and the other adjusted for clearance. Both valves cannot contact the seat at the same time or the tip to rocker at the same time in the real world.
Well , just looked at the rocker pics. That is one fkd up design unless there's some hidden adjustment we can't see in the pics. Possibly a lash cap on the hydro valve to clearance the other. They would come in varying thickness for adjustments. Rocker shafts also rigid mounted on ends.
Ron

" What we did is that the hydraulic lifters for each pushrod now account for thermal roll from the engine. We have no adjustment. It's factory set for life. We came up with an arrangement to set for very low lash at the factory and maintain that for the life of the motor."
from the article in Baggers magazine.

[No Cents]

 so...the MoCo is saying they got a lifter that will last that long now. 

[rbabos]

The stage kits are interesting, they come with adjustable pushrods plus you have the adjustable rockers. will be interesting. I would assume you would set the rockers to be the same and then adjust the pushrods. Wonder what lifters these  motors will have.

You would likely adjust the pushrods as like before, then likely .005-.007 clearance on the rocker adjuster for the one valve. One will remain is typical hydraulic 0 lash while the other has clearance to allow for wear over time. Both valves cannot be set to 0 lash for obvious reasons. One should be a master for the lifters and the other adjusted for clearance. Both valves cannot contact the seat at the same time or the tip to rocker at the same time in the real world.
Well , just looked at the rocker pics. That is one fkd up design unless there's some hidden adjustment we can't see in the pics. Possibly a lash cap on the hydro valve to clearance the other. They would come in varying thickness for adjustments. Rocker shafts also rigid mounted on ends.
Ron

" What we did is that the hydraulic lifters for each pushrod now account for thermal roll from the engine. We have no adjustment. It's factory set for life. We came up with an arrangement to set for very low lash at the factory and maintain that for the life of the motor."
from the article in Baggers magazine.

Regardless, even with no external adjusters, on a common rocker, one valve will need clearance when the other is in contact with the foot. Different stem protrusion, rocker foot or one tip of valve ground to produce some clearance.  Lifetime, possibly since I've read of several vrods with 120k on them and no valve shims done yet. The thermal roll is a fancy way of saying hydraulics take up the slack from an expanding engine. Been like that forever.
Ron

[rbabos]

so...the MoCo is saying they got a lifter that will last that long now. 

Valve spring pressures might be lower. Who know's but that would aid in lifespan.
Ron

[Soft 02]

They will probably make it through the 2 year warranty period....

[TorQuePimp]

Interesting that you can add 7 cubes without case boring

If the moco can add that much more power without headwork.....this might be fun

[motolocopat]

7 cubes is nice but on a 96" with a drop in 110" your adding 14"
I wonder if their new drop in kits use the same type of high strength/thin liner?

[Soft 02]

The 107" liners look to be 1/4" thick!

[rageglide]

   I was gonna say they were thick and approaching the 883 liner thickness.  .125 o/s should get real close to 7 cubes with room to spare.

But it does make you wonder why HD has invested a fair amount of time and money in the new steel liners for the "old" engine.

[turboprop]

so...the MoCo is saying they got a lifter that will last that long now. 

Valve spring pressures might be lower. Who know's but that would aid in lifespan.
Ron

Assuming the valve spring pressure her valve is lower, there are now two valves per lifter. There might actually be an increase in pressure on the lifter.

[tdkkart]

Regardless, even with no external adjusters, on a common rocker, one valve will need clearance when the other is in contact with the foot. Different stem protrusion, rocker foot or one tip of valve ground to produce some clearance.

Possibly a bit of engineered rocker arm flex to end up with equal lash on both valves??

[Matt C]

  I was gonna say they were thick and approaching the 883 liner thickness.  .125 o/s should get real close to 7 cubes with room to spare.

But it does make you wonder why HD has invested a fair amount of time and money in the new steel liners for the "old" engine.

That's easy; Cylinder Rigidity.

[rageglide]

  I was gonna say they were thick and approaching the 883 liner thickness.  .125 o/s should get real close to 7 cubes with room to spare.

But it does make you wonder why HD has invested a fair amount of time and money in the new steel liners for the "old" engine.

That's easy; Cylinder Rigidity.

Yet they are using cast iron liners in the new cylinders. 

[speed limit]

so...the MoCo is saying they got a lifter that will last that long now. 

Valve spring pressures might be lower. Who know's but that would aid in lifespan.
Ron

They should with cams being lower in lift

[glens]

Maybe they shim one side or the other of the rocker shaft to obtain similar clearance between stems.  Would cause the rocker to ride to the high side but might not be that much thrust, and could help with noise anyway.

[tmwmoose]

The stage kits are interesting, they come with adjustable pushrods plus you have the adjustable rockers. will be interesting. I would assume you would set the rockers to be the same and then adjust the pushrods. Wonder what lifters these  motors will have.

You would likely adjust the pushrods as like before, then likely .005-.007 clearance on the rocker adjuster for the one valve. One will remain is typical hydraulic 0 lash while the other has clearance to allow for wear over time. Both valves cannot be set to 0 lash for obvious reasons. One should be a master for the lifters and the other adjusted for clearance. Both valves cannot contact the seat at the same time or the tip to rocker at the same time in the real world.
Well , just looked at the rocker pics. That is one fkd up design unless there's some hidden adjustment we can't see in the pics. Possibly a lash cap on the hydro valve to clearance the other. They would come in varying thickness for adjustments. Rocker shafts also rigid mounted on ends.
Ron

It is confusing to me how or what the procedure would be ya think maybe theres a tool to hold the rocker arm still while the adjusters are set then do the pushrod

[rbabos]

Maybe they shim one side or the other of the rocker shaft to obtain similar clearance between stems.  Would cause the rocker to ride to the high side but might not be that much thrust, and could help with noise anyway.

Based on shaft mounting, that could be possible but not assembly line practical. These days precision is pretty high. I would have a colour coded valves with the shorter -.005-.007 or whatever stem installed in the farthest  location from the pushrod, intake and exhaust. Vrod cranks and bearings are color coded for fit and location on the line so this is entirely doable with valves. Mind you, some variations will happen. Some might be noisy from too much clearance, some won't make it to lifetime without leaking on a cold engine from valve leakage on the exhaust side. That's my take but we are guessing at this point and once we actually see it, it will be simple as dirt.
Ron

[rbabos]

The stage kits are interesting, they come with adjustable pushrods plus you have the adjustable rockers. will be interesting. I would assume you would set the rockers to be the same and then adjust the pushrods. Wonder what lifters these  motors will have.

You would likely adjust the pushrods as like before, then likely .005-.007 clearance on the rocker adjuster for the one valve. One will remain is typical hydraulic 0 lash while the other has clearance to allow for wear over time. Both valves cannot be set to 0 lash for obvious reasons. One should be a master for the lifters and the other adjusted for clearance. Both valves cannot contact the seat at the same time or the tip to rocker at the same time in the real world.
Well , just looked at the rocker pics. That is one fkd up design unless there's some hidden adjustment we can't see in the pics. Possibly a lash cap on the hydro valve to clearance the other. They would come in varying thickness for adjustments. Rocker shafts also rigid mounted on ends.
Ron

It is confusing to me how or what the procedure would be ya think maybe theres a tool to hold the rocker arm still while the adjusters are set then do the pushrod

Only tools you'd need is your finger pressure to hold the rocker foot against the valve and apply some upward pull on the rocker to take up and rocker bushing clearance while maintaining rocker foot contact with valve and a feeler gauge.   One rocker foot will make contact, the other will have the recommended clearance at the valve tip. At this stage I'm suspecting the furthest valve from the pushrod will have the clearance from a logical standpoint. Once that clearance is varified, adjust pushrod to lifter preload as usual and go.
Ron

[PoorUB]

I have seen the parts breakdown for the heads. No shims, no adjustment to account for valve stem height. Messes with my mind!

[rbabos]

I have seen the parts breakdown for the heads. No shims, no adjustment to account for valve stem height. Messes with my mind!

Same here. Like I say it will be simple once we actually see one. For now we overthink everything and come up with senerios that may or may not exist. Only sure thing is a clearance requirement for that one valve. How that was done exactly is still the big question.
Ron

[Hybredhog]

  Well maybe it is as simple as it seems. less valve weight, less spring pressure , larger base circles, better geometry, and a possibly weakened/more accurate lifters. So with all of these & metallurgy on a STOCK engine just might last a "life time".  But who's life time, your average rider might put on less than 5k miles a year, will it see 100k^?

[Soft 02]

The lifetime of the warranty!

[rbabos]

The lifetime of the warranty!

Sad but likely true.
Ron

[koko3052]

 

[Latrobedyna]

If you look at the specs of a stock 107 versus a 114 it appears from what i seen the stroke is different. With that being said what if you used the bigbore 114 kit on the 114 motor? wouldn't it net you a 120" motor. Please don't laugh at me just wondering out loud is all.

[rigidthumper]

117

[00se]

Talked to the parts man at our local dealer. He told me Harley has two kits. One is a 107 to a 114. The other a 114 to a 117.

[FSG]

Stock the 114 has both bore and stroke over the 107



the Big Bore Kit increase to 4.075 is better bang for the $$ for the 107 rather than the 114 although the result isn't to be sneezed at. 

Personally I'd be looking to see how far the cylinders can be bored before lashing out the $$$$

[happyman]

on the 117" have to wonder how far it can be punched out?  could be a 120"?