7.....107'' mosquito killers

[Tattoo]

Man!  I'm lovin' my '15 Limited even more than before - and I wouldn't have believed that was possible, till I started seeing posts about the defects in these new motors.   

Wonder if this is gonna turn out to be yet another epic miss for the Almighty MoCo? 

the sky is not falling everything will be ok. 

[PoorUB]

Yep, pretty sure that if there is a problem with the M8 HD will take care of it. I just don't want to be the guy with the new $30k motorcycle I can't ride.

[Xyzzy]

Not really sure if I'd have the new road glide tho. The new fairing just looks odd to me. Don't like the dash or the head light look

The glare from the infotainment screen was the reason I test rode and eventually bought a SG. It might sound like something trivial but it bugged me a lot.

I think the RG headlamps look cool, though.

I was going to buy the H-D Daymaker for my SG but then I found that you can buy the LED from the original manufacturer (JW Speaker) for much less ($350) with a four year warranty instead of just one. The installation was a piece of cake. I had to buy H-D's plug harness ($20) but you have to do that for the Daymaker, too. H-D putting a halogen headlamp on a $24K motorcycle is baffling to me.

http://www.jwspeaker.com/products/led-headlights-model-8700-evolution-2/

[sbcharlie]

we got our 107 test mule today from montana. no drama with bike, it does not smoke. i told my friend to ride it like you stole it, and to lug it hard over the mountain passes.  runs good need to clean and change oil, if there any in the oil bag.  seems to be quite and nice ride.   sbc

[vafatboy1]

Yep, pretty sure that if there is a problem with the M8 HD will take care of it.

I'm not sure I agree with that....as long as it's under warranty they will fix it....not everyone purchasing reads about potential issues on the World Wide Web and might not be on top of things before their bike takes a dump.


Most would probably agree the cam bearing issues on the 1999 TC's was a design flaw and in my view every single one should have been upgraded on HD's dime. It's one thing if an issue is a nuisance, another if it can take an engine out. 

I know a few folks that have had 2 and in some cases 3 compensators replaced under warranty. Granted, these are high mileage riders and one day the repair bill will be on them. They went in with eyes wide open and bought the extended warranties with the compensators in mind.

I don't track it enough to know if HD has a reliable compensator for late models because I don't have a late model with the bum compensators.

[HV]

Did 4 more today ( PDI )  test rode looked for smoke on initial start up...etc....NONE .....

[Smarty]

Yep, pretty sure that if there is a problem with the M8 HD will take care of it.

I'm not sure I agree with that....as long as it's under warranty they will fix it....not everyone purchasing reads about potential issues on the World Wide Web and might not be on top of things before their bike takes a dump.


Most would probably agree the cam bearing issues on the 1999 TC's was a design flaw and in my view every single one should have been upgraded on HD's dime. It's one thing if an issue is a nuisance, another if it can take an engine out. 

I know a few folks that have had 2 and in some cases 3 compensators replaced under warranty. Granted, these are high mileage riders and one day the repair bill will be on them. They went in with eyes wide open and bought the extended warranties with the compensators in mind.

I don't track it enough to know if HD has a reliable compensator for late models because I don't have a late model with the bum compensators.

I just took my 16 RGS in today. Compensator was knocking so loud it sounded like a rod bearing or something. We change them out all the time at the shop. Figured today, it was Harley's time to pay. It was really bad and while I was there they changed out my voltmeter gauge. It was jumping from 14.1 to 14.6 volts back and forth quickly. I had already ridden it for  a test ride with a volt meter hooked up. Volt meter showed the regulator and stator were working great. Spent 4 hours at the dealer waiting on it and left with a fixed bike. I thought later, I should have just bought one and do it myself. Could have been making money while they did it plus the 1 1/2 hour drive. Well, sometimes you just got to bite the bullet and let them cover it and sit back.

[Bike31]

It could just be excessive build-up lube if not an actual defect...TBD. Not hard to pull a couple outside spark plugs at PDI and look for oil on them or the piston tops...through the plug holes or send a borescope in if it's a smoker. Might check CCP when PDI'd to see if it markedly climbs with a first ride?

Would setup techs have the authority to slow the sales train if needed for a smoker? 

[Bigbluff]

I've only seen the video, and it didn't smoke until the throttle was blipped. All the descriptions I've read, so far, refer to the throttle blip on a cold engine being when the smoke is observed. Also, the Harley techs who have been following this say that they don't see it on bikes that have been ridden enough for breakin to have taken place.

I would think that if all the smoking was caused by oil on top of the pistons, then it would not wait to smoke until the throttle was blipped. It would puff smoke immediately upon startup including at idle.

I'm more inclined to believe that during break-in of the rings, there might be a bit more blow-by into the crankcase and therefore a bit more oil in the ventilation system. With some condensation occurring when the engine cools so that some oil might be deposited at the front of the throttle body. When the throttle is blipped on cold startup, it might be increasing the flow in the throttle body or ventilation system to pick up the condensation and suck it into the combustion chamber until it dries out after a couple of blips and/or things heat up. After breaking in the rings this effect would be reduced.

Modern rings don't typically require a lot of breaking in, but it seems to me it might be worthwhile speculation.

OK...I've put on my flame retardant suit...

[les]

The thing is that when I build a brand new engine in my garage, it never smokes.  The new Road King I saw with my own eyes start up at the dealer blew out smoke right from the start without any throttle. 


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[Bike31]

In Revzilla's review of the M8 it's mentioned that HD uses a new piston ring design that has lower tension and offers lower friction (?). Maybe some the new rings fail to seat as quick as others? That's why I asked above if CCP increases and smoking decreases after a good initial run.

"Another bit of nifty tech in play is the use of low-tension piston rings - fairly sophisticated technology Harley has employed. Low-tension rings exert less pressure against cylinder walls than standard rings, and they're a bit thinner, too. This reduction in friction reduces a significant amount of drag on the motor"

[jbexeter]

That would account for the compression rings, but not the oil control ring, which will have a constant force against the cylinder walls irrespecting of combustion pressures....

visible blue smoke is oil burning, no new engine should burn oil under any circumstances *except* an initial assembly oil burn off, which would be burnt off when every engine is started and run up at the factory test stage.

we have smoke, but no gun to point at.

[les]

In Revzilla's review of the M8 it's mentioned that HD uses a new piston ring design that has lower tension and offers lower friction (?). Maybe some the new rings fail to seat as quick as others? That's why I asked above if CCP increases and smoking decreases after a good initial run.

"Another bit of nifty tech in play is the use of low-tension piston rings - fairly sophisticated technology Harley has employed. Low-tension rings exert less pressure against cylinder walls than standard rings, and they're a bit thinner, too. This reduction in friction reduces a significant amount of drag on the motor"

Oh.  Didn't know that about the new rings. 


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[rbabos]

Not sure what the hell rings have to do with startup smoke. Last I looked oil don't travel upwards to the top of the piston.
Ron

[jbexeter]

Not sure what the hell rings have to do with startup smoke. Last I looked oil don't travel upwards to the top of the piston.
Ron

it does in a runaway diesel, if you get dilution (diesel fuel getting into the sump) the level goes up and sooner or later it will start passing the rings and then you have a runaway...

.... so maybe these new motors with skinny rings and new oil bags etc are sumping? Clears up once the motor has run a minute or two?

[glens]

What are the chances the bike in the video was uncrated along with whatever else that entails, then pushed out into the parking lot to create the video without ever having been started up since it was crated?  I'm thinking it would've likely been started at least once already since delivered, and probably even ridden.  If the factory were fogging the cylinders prior to delivery, wouldn't every bike exhibit some smoke like that?

If it ain't transport-related then I can't see it being either a standard phenomenon or what the EPA had in mind when it issued certification.

[Tattoo]

we are doing a M8 114" upgrade tomorrow on a bike with 6 miles and We will be inspecting the cylinders and pistons. we also have several M8 bikes out the door with no "smoking" issues whats so ever and positive feedback from the customers.

[harleytuner]

The parts manager and owner of athe local dealership(s) dropped a bike of to be tuned yesterday, they said a pretty good percentage of the ones they have smoke on start up.  I've only seen one started up in person and I didn't notice any smoking.

Tattoo, are you using the street tuner on  114 job?

[HD/Wrench]

Leaving in a hour for BBQ rally and there is a 17 in the group. Its been a little smoky since he bought it but he has no real miles on it . So this trip should prove if it will seal up or not. He will have over 2000 miles on it after the trip and the riding we have planned . 

[Tattoo]

Tattoo, are you using the street tuner on  114 job?

Yes we are...     

[harleytuner]

Tattoo, are you using the street tuner on  114 job?

Yes we are...     

Good deal. I'm eagerly awaiting the results of this. The local dealer I tune for just chopped the neck, raked, big wheeled, New body work, and 114 stage III kit in one, ill be getting it to tune then it'll go on their floor for sale. Still trying to decide over the Street tuner or  TTS.

[rbabos]

Not sure what the hell rings have to do with startup smoke. Last I looked oil don't travel upwards to the top of the piston.
Ron

it does in a runaway diesel, if you get dilution (diesel fuel getting into the sump) the level goes up and sooner or later it will start passing the rings and then you have a runaway...

.... so maybe these new motors with skinny rings and new oil bags etc are sumping? Clears up once the motor has run a minute or two?

Over run diesel possible I guess but the only engine with full blown startup smoke I've dealt with is a radial aircraft engine for obvious reasons on the lower cyls.  Doubt the HD bagger engine can be effected that way. Even softails, even over long storage and the above engine tank bleeds down and fills the sump don't smoke on startup. Not that I've seen anyway. Startup smoke is usually 99% from oil from top working into the chamber when sitting. This is not assembly lube issue either and I doubt HD goes to much lengths using it plus all engines are run prior to shipping. Will be interesting to see what the cause is with the odd one that does a smoke start.
Ron

[Boost]

we are doing a M8 114" upgrade tomorrow on a bike with 6 miles and We will be inspecting the cylinders and pistons. we also have several M8 bikes out the door with no "smoking" issues whats so ever and positive feedback from the customers.

Hello Tattoo,

Could you measure the 107 and 114 cylinder liner thickness and the spigot hole in the case?

Thanks,

[Tattoo]

Will do...

[Rokinrider]

Three days and 280 miles no smoke on my new RG? I always let my bike warm up before I walk the throttle. That's been the case since I had British bikes in the 70s and Iron head/ Evo/ Twin cam. I don't baby my motorcycles but a short idle warm up is a good practice IMHO. I'm really liking my M ATE. I told my neighbor it's a bump head.