The future of the M8

[PoorUB]

The vast overwhelming majority of ride reviews of the M8 that I have seen have been positive.  That includes reviews from magazines and websites that get to ride bikes from all of the manufacturers.  From what I have seen, they have all indicated the M8 is a step forward, specifically in the areas of smoothness and power. 

As far as the four valve head having more or less potential than the two valve head:  A)  That remains to be seen  B)  Probably 90% of riders are going to be satisfied with either a stage one or two.  What the head can or cannot do would be a moot point.  Harley's fortunes might change for the worse, but it won't be because of the M8.

Magazine articles are generally biased. Keep in mind how a magazine makes money, and realize that it is not from subscription fees. Are you going to write up a negative article about HD if they spend several thousand dollars a year in advertising? I can not remember ever reading a negative article in any magazine. Even their motorcycle comparisons are poor as they rarely pick one bike over the other, and when they do, they concede that second place was not far behind and is a very good choice too.

As for the M8, IMO, it is just more of the same from HD. Seriously, the bottom end has very little changes as to the type of manufacture. Guys have been bitching about pressed together cranks for years, the M8? Still has a pressed crank and it is better than a TC? Still the same lousy lifters guys have been complaining about for the last ~5 years. About the only thing improved it the way the rocker arm shaft is retained, and many of us are still trying to figure out how to maintain valve lash with no adjustment on the rocker arms. Four valve heads on an engine that barely turns over 5,000 RPM?? Give me a forged one piece crank, automotive style con rods with caps, plain bearings with full pressure lube, and full water cooling then I might get excited.

The M8 is probably a good engine, I just don't see it as being a great engine, nothing to get really excited over. I bought a new Limited in July because I did not want an M8, at least not yet.

[HV]

Give me a forged one piece crank, automotive style con rods with caps, plain bearings with full pressure lube, and full water cooling then I might get excited.


They had one...called the V Rod ...not made any more due to lack of sales 

[PoorUB]

Give me a forged one piece crank, automotive style con rods with caps, plain bearings with full pressure lube, and full water cooling then I might get excited.


They had one...called the V Rod ...not made any more due to lack of sales 

They put it in the wrong motorcycle frame!

[HV]

Yup they did 

[RXBOB]

Took my new M8 RG ( SE Mufflers, high flow A/C) out for its first real test yesterday, did over 700ks for the day in 30*C weather on some pretty long straight, twisty and in interrupted roads. 140km/hr, cruise control, Tunes, GPS.

Well I was pretty impressed the suspension worked it cornered well, fuel economy was excellent, clutch is a dream and has plenty of power and torque for what it is ( an external push rod engine).

Checked my engine oil level at all stops and at home no movement on the dipstick.

So all in all this has to be the best thing Harley has done, I remember all the bagging of the Twin Cam when that took over from the Evo this is all just the same sorta stuff

I am I happy I got one,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,HELL YEAH

[hd06]

Congratulations  on your new ride they are smooth torqu running machines, I'm impressed with mine.

[FSG]

Took my new M8 RG ............................. 

Sometimes I hate people just because       but in this case I'm just jealous.       ride on   

[mobe]

[/quote]

They put it in the wrong motorcycle
[/quote]

Amen brother, amen.

[Admiral Akbar]

I hope s&s gets a 2 valve conversion quick

You should explain this.. Maybe put the T back in HTT??

[TorQuePimp]

I hope s&s gets a 2 valve conversion quick

You should explain this.. Maybe put the T back in HTT??

Scroll back already did

[Admiral Akbar]

I hope s&s gets a 2 valve conversion quick

You should explain this.. Maybe put the T back in HTT??

Scroll back already did

So that's your tech answer?  OK...

[Templer]

Think the M-8 is the next step. My question is WHO is going to shack up my rattle cans?? 

[1FSTRK]

Time will tell what kind of job Harley did with their 4 valve heads. The 4 valve per cylinder concept on a Harley is not new nor was it a leap forward but it was certainly not a step backwards either. I have seen several that went through Vic's shop on EVO engines and one that was converted to run on a Twin cam and they were all respectable back in the day. Now days with dual plugs, EFI and some other modern advances these M8 engines should be even better as long as HD did not make some unforeseen error in their design.

The grandfather of the single cam, 4 valve head, Harley engine was the Fueling/Quantum head on an Evo and here is an example of what they could do back in the day with a little effort.
113ci S&S cases, cylinders, pistons
4 Valve heads
W-6 Cam
S&S carb Force/K&N air cleaner
Custom pipe with Hooker muffler

[jmorton10]

There is nothing really new or revolutionary about 4 valve Harley heads.

http://thekneeslider.com/4-valve-hemi-heads-for-harley-big-twin-engines/

We built a few motors with the Fueling 4 valve heads years ago.  If they where dramatically better you would see them everywhere (I haven't seen a set in years)

~John

[HD/Wrench]

at some point I hope they dump the stupid cam set up and go over head. Now we can start making better changes. The ability to control intake and ex separately  has been one of the largest improvements in over head cam engines . HD is holding onto the past. If you want power like others then well take a long hard look at what they are doing how and freaking successful it has been. IE victory those engines have very little failures and make big power 110/110 with a cam swap and slip on mufflers. Engines are smooth with very wide bands of usable power. I feel you are seeing a intermediate engine myself.

Look at what the new EPA is looking for, ( noise is also in the EPA ) The regs keep getting stiffer. The dual over head cams would be of huge help . I do not think we will see a "vanos" system anytime soon. That would be great but packaging  is a nightmare.  And HD is anything but up for spending huge money. "more so just enough to almost get the job done"

[harleytuner]

at some point I hope they dump the stupid cam set up and go over head. Now we can start making better changes. The ability to control intake and ex separately  has been one of the largest improvements in over head cam engines . HD is holding onto the past. If you want power like others then well take a long hard look at what they are doing how and freaking successful it has been. IE victory those engines have very little failures and make big power 110/110 with a cam swap and slip on mufflers. Engines are smooth with very wide bands of usable power. I feel you are seeing a intermediate engine myself.

Look at what the new EPA is looking for, ( noise is also in the EPA ) The regs keep getting stiffer. The dual over head cams would be of huge help . I do not think we will see a "vanos" system anytime soon. That would be great but packaging  is a nightmare.  And HD is anything but up for spending huge money. "more so just enough to almost get the job done"

I agree but I would imagine it's a fine line for HD to walk, trying to become "modern" but keep the traditionalists happy.  We tend to demand more but don't want change to get it.

A very good friend of mine bought a bar that had been out of business for about 5 years.  When he got it opened up all the old regulars started coming in.  They soon started trying to run the new younger croud out. (the old timers didn't want the change, they wanted to hang out and play cards like they used to, without the jukebox blaring anything other than AC/DC.  I told Scott he better put an end to it quick, there's a reason it went out of business in the first place.  The old timer customers didn't spend enough to keep the place in business. 

[Durwood]

I personally like the M8 platform and feel it has a bright future in our industry.

George Bryce at Star racing posted some flow sheets on Facebook of M8 heads with minor port work and valve job that are eclipsing a fully ported 110 head.

We as humans are creatures of habit and typically don't like change, but IMO, this new mill will prove to be a winner for all in the business.

Everyone have a very Merry Christmas.

[Don D]

I like them, have great hope for the future

[1FSTRK]

I personally like the M8 platform and feel it has a bright future in our industry.

George Bryce at Star racing posted some flow sheets on Facebook of M8 heads with minor port work and valve job that are eclipsing a fully ported 110 head.

We as humans are creatures of habit and typically don't like change, but IMO, this new mill will prove to be a winner for all in the business.

Everyone have a very Merry Christmas.

I just saw some flow numbers from testing with prototype valves and port work that look like these heads will deliver great power and torque. No dyno number yet but once proper cams and TBs are added to the mix things should get very interesting.

[rigidthumper]

He showed 325/235 @ 1/2" lift stock, 343/255 @ 1/2" lift after port & valve work. Heads less of a restriction than the past...

[Jonny Cash]

Future looks bright to me for these engines. Axtell released their kit to take the 107's to 117, and suburban is showing a 120 piston and cylinder drop on kit.  Looks like parts development has been pretty quick.  Bryce,s initial port work looks really  promising.  Looks like big cubes on these is going to be a pretty easy deal.

[1FSTRK]

Big cubes will be a must with ports and valves this big in the M8. After finally growing the twin cam big enough to use it's ports they appear to have gone back to their old math for the port and valve sizes for the 107ci M8.

[PoorUB]

Like the M8? I guess I don't dislike it, I suppose I like it, but I like the Twin Cam too. I just don't see the M8 as much different that the TC,  remove one cam, add four valve heads to a TC. The engineering of the M8 screams TC variant ot me. It is all the same engineering in a slightly different package.

[Smarty]

Isn't that exactly what we love about the small block chevy? Variations but true to its roots.


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[Ohio HD]

at some point I hope they dump the stupid cam set up and go over head. Now we can start making better changes. The ability to control intake and ex separately  has been one of the largest improvements in over head cam engines . HD is holding onto the past. If you want power like others then well take a long hard look at what they are doing how and freaking successful it has been. IE victory those engines have very little failures and make big power 110/110 with a cam swap and slip on mufflers. Engines are smooth with very wide bands of usable power. I feel you are seeing a intermediate engine myself.

Look at what the new EPA is looking for, ( noise is also in the EPA ) The regs keep getting stiffer. The dual over head cams would be of huge help . I do not think we will see a "vanos" system anytime soon. That would be great but packaging  is a nightmare.  And HD is anything but up for spending huge money. "more so just enough to almost get the job done"

If HD could make a compact version of the 4 cam sportster valve train, we can have the separate intake from exhaust and keep the OHV with push rods. And I mean that for tradition sake. I think going OHV OHC might be a negative to HD owners. The V-Rod was enough change that it just didn't sell.