Stage 3 not worth it?

[SLAATY]

My first twin was a '75 FX - 74" motor, no heat issues. As these twins have grown there's been noticeable problems with heat management.

The 107 now has issues with oil cooling, so I'm wondering how much sense it makes to keep building them up. 114"= more heat. Isn't comfort and longevity going to be the price of yet more power?

I've got a Road King coming in November and would love to do a 114' but worry about everyday living with it.

[hd06]

 What kind of problems the M8 suppose to have with the oil cooler. I have a RGS M8 and I think 99.9 % is BS. There been a few problems with the new motor but any thing man made you will have problems. New motor is very smooth and lots of torque. Enjoy your new ride.     

[Tattoo]

 I have not checked in in awhile...  now the M8 has oil cooling issues? I have not seen this issue yet and have several M8 bikes out the door with miles on them with no issues at all. I will have to check the internet once in awhile to see whats really going on so please keep us in the loop. 

[glens]

I've got a Road King coming in November and would love to do a 114' but worry about everyday living with it.

So change the deal to one with a wet head.  They work admirably in the Rushmores at any rate.

Or just make a sweet deal on a '16 or maybe even sweeter on a yet-new '15.  Pretty hard to go wrong with what is arguably the pinnacle of Twin-Cam refinement.

[Breeze]

"Isn't comfort and longevity going to be the price of yet more power?"  There is/has always been a price for more power.
We used to deal with reliability and oil leaks, now its heat. Longivity is usually in the "wrist" of the owner.

[Tommy D]

Don't worry, Be Happy
You're buying the best motorcycle available on the planet from the best MOCO on the planet.
The MKE 8 will be a proven winner, if you're fortunate to have the resources to purchase a new MKE 8 & upgrade to a 114... spend the money...Let the warranty backed product from the MOCO do its job it states..
for what it is, the EPA compliant stage 3 114 rocks IMO

RIDE ON 

[les]

There is an optional fan you can install behind the oil cooler.  Have you looked into the accessory? 

[ocezam]

As these twins have grown there's been noticeable problems with heat management.

With more power comes more heat.  Basic physics.
If the MOCO would put more effort into weight reduction we'd get better performance at any given power level.  Weight reduction doesn't seem to be a concern for HD or it's customers.

Pity...

[hd06]

 Yes they could start putting more plastic on them. My M8 doesn't have the heat problem that my 15 did. The cat is moved farther back and the outlet is bigger to let the heat out. There is a big difference between the Twin Cam and M8. It has a larger cooling system better oil flow to the heads to cool them down and it has a 50% larger charging system. Twin Cam been a great motor and still is look how far we have come from 88".  This new motor is the way to go. We were need something to compete with the new bikes coming out and this is it.  I'm glad Harley doesn't build there bikes out of plastic. Wow did we get of the subject of Stage 3 not worth it.     

[rbabos]

There is an optional fan you can install behind the oil cooler.  Have you looked into the accessory?

That's a joke in itself. It should be a production item. Wait until you see what happens to the oil temp in stop and go traffic without a fan with the heads heating the oil up, unlike the TC where there was very little oil to the heads . People bitch about 250* now.
Ron

[tomcat64]

issues with oil cooling??? ok,, if you or the internet says so.. we have not seen any, on the contrary the ones we have on the road have been flawless, with the exception of one, and that was a wet head. (ez fix tho) we have a customer named Kenny, buys a new Harley every couple of years, has for decades, now keep in mind, Kenny is not a weekend warrior, rides 15k a year (pretty good here in MN) .. if you ask him he will tell you his new FLHXS is the absolutely the best motorcycle he has ever owned or ridden...

[Tattoo]

  We have one that rode to Florida and back with no issues.

[rbabos]

issues with oil cooling??? ok,, if you or the internet says so.. we have not seen any, on the contrary the ones we have on the road have been flawless, with the exception of one, and that was a wet head. (ez fix tho) we have a customer named Kenny, buys a new Harley every couple of years, has for decades, now keep in mind, Kenny is not a weekend warrior, rides 15k a year (pretty good here in MN) .. if you ask him he will tell you his new FLHXS is the absolutely the best motorcycle he has ever owned or ridden...

Then there's absolutely no reason for MoCo to have an optional cooler fan is there? All righty then.
Ron

[rbabos]

We have one that rode to Florida and back with no issues.

Not an issue moving along the road. Any liquid cooled anything will work fine that way to. I'm talking parade mode with no air moving through it.
Ron

[Tattoo]

We have one that rode to Florida and back with no issues.

Not an issue moving along the road. Any liquid cooled anything will work fine that way to. I'm talking parade mode with no air moving through it.
Ron

Ok I have to ask how many of the M8 issues have you seen/rode personally or have repaired in your shop?

[rbabos]

We have one that rode to Florida and back with no issues.

Not an issue moving along the road. Any liquid cooled anything will work fine that way to. I'm talking parade mode with no air moving through it.
Ron

Ok I have to ask how many of the M8 issues have you seen/rode personally or have repaired in your shop?

In order for a rad, liquid or oil to cool it needs air moving through it. When you take more of the sump oil and run it through the heads, it will heat this oil up more so then say a TC would, which is nothing more then a dribble. Oil temp gauges will varify this in time.
Ron

[SLAATY]

Didn't mean to start a flame war here guys. My concerns came from some field reports, mostly from the link cited in Nomad's post: http://www.hdforums.com/forum/milwaukee-eight-m8/1140770-m8-advanced-oil-cooler-system.html

Right now we're looking at a learning curve with these new motors. Because I'm picking mine up in late November, I'll need to make a decision no later than 60 days hence to get through the warranty window.

Heat with any larger displacement motor IS going to be an issue. I want to know if it's practical for long term purposes. If there's uncertainties I can always go with stage 2 and probably be fine.

[Tattoo]

all good here and respect everybody's opinion just was wondering if the people saying there is a problem have actually seen it first hand or had to repair the M8 themselves/dealer due to a failed part. I am around these things all day long and like to hear what others personally finding wrong. 

[rbabos]

Didn't mean to start a flame war here guys. My concerns came from some field reports, mostly from the link cited in Nomad's post: http://www.hdforums.com/forum/milwaukee-eight-m8/1140770-m8-advanced-oil-cooler-system.html

Right now we're looking at a learning curve with these new motors. Because I'm picking mine up in late November, I'll need to make a decision no later than 60 days hence to get through the warranty window.

Heat with any larger displacement motor IS going to be an issue. I want to know if it's practical for long term purposes. If there's uncertainties I can always go with stage 2 and probably be fine.

Interesting. While Steve Cole and I are pretty much like fire and water, his findings, suspicions are very close to the theory I just presented with oil temps and oil cooled heads.
Time, testing and field reports are the true test. Till then, it's only speculation, at least on my part.
Ron

[Bike31]

Why not stick one of these in the oil sump for a starter? http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/oil-level---temperature-dipstick---lighted-lcd-readout-pa-10-62700180--1

[hd06]

 Never had any luck with them.

[rbabos]

Never had any luck with them.

Yes they suck. Can't beat the plain old analog unit.
Ron

[Tommy D]

Never had any luck with them.

A Bling item more than anything

[Bike31]

I assume based on experience from the replies that the digital unit is inaccurate and not dependable...but has anyone actually bothered to cal one in boiling water? I've used both of the earlier models for pre-17's and the analog and digital ones I had read close...but yes the digital wasn't as long lived.

Well if folks are pissy about heat then just stick a deep fry therm in the hole, but it's not my concern or problem to begin with.

[Rockout Rocker Products]

Why not stick one of these in the oil sump for a starter? http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/oil-level---temperature-dipstick---lighted-lcd-readout-pa-10-62700180--1

I have one (for earlier models) that I tried to give away for the cost of shipping.

No one would take it.

[Nastytls]

Not sure I understand the "problem".

Is the assertion that oil cooled heads don't work and that they will make the oil even hotter? Oil cooled heads aren't exactly new technology and if it works elsewhere why not in the M8?. BMW's oil cooled heads work and they rev higher and produce more power ( i.e. heat ).

[Y2KRKNG]

That 114 will be standard equipment soon enough, then all this worry will be for nothing.

[rbabos]

Not sure I understand the "problem".

Is the assertion that oil cooled heads don't work and that they will make the oil even hotter? Oil cooled heads aren't exactly new technology and if it works elsewhere why not in the M8?. BMW's oil cooled heads work and they rev higher and produce more power ( i.e. heat ).

They work well if designed right. Size of cooler and air flow a big player. My bitch was no standard fan in the system to handle the cooling in slow speed and city traffic. I don't know why it is with HD that it's always on the owners dime to make things right. In this case, the optional fan should be in place from the factory. Oh wait, more money in their pocket that way, right?
Ron

[roadrash3]

I just picked up my 2017 with the stage 3, and i could not imagine owning this bike without it. The hottest temperature we have had here is 90 degrees, and i did not notice anywhere near the heat my 2013 had put out. The stage 3 is awesome, 7 year warranty on it and more power then i ever need. I have not had to take it over 4300rpm cause it flys. When i need to pass people on two lane roads i could not be happier. I have a fuel moto 107" build with head work and it smoked this bike on paper. but the dyno butt feeling is this 114" could beat it.

[Tattoo]

real world feedback 

[Nastytls]

So I guess my question is, if the BMW doesn't need a fan why does the Harley? Both air/oil cooled engines. Maybe the fan is nice to drop the temps a bit, but is it really needed? Most people that install the aftermarket oil coolers don't have any sort of fan on them.

[rbabos]

So I guess my question is, if the BMW doesn't need a fan why does the Harley? Both air/oil cooled engines. Maybe the fan is nice to drop the temps a bit, but is it really needed? Most people that install the aftermarket oil coolers don't have any sort of fan on them.

You think BMW didn't suffer from high oil temps in traffic on fanless oil cooled versions? They did. Had a bud always bitching about pinging if in the city too long.  As for adding oil coolers to the TC, well in most cases it's not needed. Once you go real oil cooled heads a cooler is a must and a fan is a bonus for a well rounded package.
Ron

[GregOn2Wheels]

I'm not sure how much difference it makes, but both heads on an oil cooled BMW are "in the wind" versus a Harley where the front head is kinda in the wind and the only wind the rear head gets is hot air off of the front head.  Of course it shouldn't make that much difference at idle, but I bet that it makes some due to the Harley heads being tucked up under the tank where some hot air is likely trapped.

[hd06]

 You guys are getting too far in the weeds.

[GregOn2Wheels]

You guys are getting too far in the weeds.

No place better to be at the moment, but thanks for letting us know.