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Help with spark plug reading/diagnosis

Started by Azgunner, October 23, 2016, 02:25:52 PM

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Azgunner

Can anyone with good experience tell me if they see anything unusual or of concern with these two sets of plugs. Both sets have been run for about two weeks.
Edit: I should have written 300-400 miles on plugs, time means nothing.

Set 1:
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

Azgunner

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"


Ohio HD

Nothing there jumps out as anything wrong. Unleaded fuel doesn't burn quite like leaded fuel, so the changes in the plugs are usually very subtle.

packrat56

Now I know, why some animals eat their young.

Phu Cat

Thanks Packrat, that is really a lot of useful information.  At least I thought it was interesting.  Some of the old guys might remember when our resident guru mechanic extraordinaire (God rest his soul) Samuel told us something like: "With these new lean burn engines it's almost impossible to tell much about F/A ratios by reading spark plugs".  (Old guys refresh my memory on that.) Along goes a quick 8-10 years and look at all the new information that's become available.

Ohio HD, I'm wondering how you know leaded gasoline burns differently than unleaded?  I don't mean to put you on the spot, but it's made from the exact same gasoline streams, just different volumes of one over the other.  It never occurred to me to run a distillation test on a leaded sample after it had the lead was put in it.  You very well might be right for all I know.

PC
Too much horsepower is almost enough.

koko3052

Quote from: Phu Cat on October 23, 2016, 05:55:22 PM
Thanks Packrat, that is really a lot of useful information.  At least I thought it was interesting.  Some of the old guys might remember when our resident guru mechanic extraordinaire (God rest his soul) Samuel told us something like: "With these new lean burn engines it's almost impossible to tell much about F/A ratios by reading spark plugs".  (Old guys refresh my memory on that.) Along goes a quick 8-10 years and look at all the new information that's become available.

Ohio HD, I'm wondering how you know leaded gasoline burns differently than unleaded?  I don't mean to put you on the spot, but it's made from the exact same gasoline streams, just different volumes of one over the other.  It never occurred to me to run a distillation test on a leaded sample after it had the lead was put in it.  You very well might be right for all I know.

PC

Simply saying.... what you read on the plugs is the lead deposits....no lead in the fuel...then much harder to read. What you do read with no-lead fuel is the temp. signs.

mr. pitts

Plugs look good to me. Are you having problems with something? :idunno:

Ohio HD

Quote from: Phu Cat on October 23, 2016, 05:55:22 PM
Thanks Packrat, that is really a lot of useful information.  At least I thought it was interesting.  Some of the old guys might remember when our resident guru mechanic extraordinaire (God rest his soul) Samuel told us something like: "With these new lean burn engines it's almost impossible to tell much about F/A ratios by reading spark plugs".  (Old guys refresh my memory on that.) Along goes a quick 8-10 years and look at all the new information that's become available.

Ohio HD, I'm wondering how you know leaded gasoline burns differently than unleaded?  I don't mean to put you on the spot, but it's made from the exact same gasoline streams, just different volumes of one over the other.  It never occurred to me to run a distillation test on a leaded sample after it had the lead was put in it.  You very well might be right for all I know.

PC

Experience has shown me that with unleaded you do not get the same coloring of the spark plug porcelain. The reason, I have always been told is that unleaded is an oxygenated fuel, and burns differently and cleaner than leaded. 

Azgunner

Quote from: mr. pitts on October 23, 2016, 09:43:33 PM
Plugs look good to me. Are you having problems with something? :idunno:

Having some oil consumption issues.

BTW, thanks for the replies & links.
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

Phu Cat

Well Ohio, that Oxygenated stuff started after I left that business so I can't say for sure.  I can see where lead might leave some color on the plug, but I wouldn't think it would change the resultant burn any.  But it would probably take somebody a whole lot smarter than you and me and 5 of your best buddys to know for sure, don't ya think?

PC
Too much horsepower is almost enough.

Ohio HD

That's why I say from my experience. The whole unleaded thing came into play when bikes were still 99.9% using a carburetor. Jetting a bike on unleaded was suddenly not as easily done for us poor guys who didn't have a dyno or AFR equipment to read the bikes. So we used seat O the pants and I also used this for difficult motors.

I still have my Pro Color Tune.

http://www.autoexpertproducts.com/images/ColortuneBlueFlame.JPG

http://www.carbtune.co.uk/Images/prosmall.jpg

mr. pitts

Quote from: Azgunner on October 24, 2016, 09:08:42 AM
Quote from: mr. pitts on October 23, 2016, 09:43:33 PM
Plugs look good to me. Are you having problems with something? :idunno:

Having some oil consumption issues.

BTW, thanks for the replies & links.
We need some details of the bike & consumption figures before we can help further.

FlaHeatWave

Quote from: Azgunner on October 24, 2016, 09:08:42 AM
Quote from: mr. pitts on October 23, 2016, 09:43:33 PM
Plugs look good to me. Are you having problems with something? :idunno:

Having some oil consumption issues.

BTW, thanks for the replies & links.
When I first looked at the pictures and saw that there are only three to four hundred miles on these plugs, I was thinking oil consumption, from the significant carbon build-up on the backside of the ground strap and the threads...
'01 FXDWG2 Red 103/6sp  '05 FLHTCSE2 Cherry  '09 FLTRSE3 Yellow 117/DD7

Azgunner

#14
Quote from: mr. pitts on October 24, 2016, 10:42:41 AM
Quote from: Azgunner on October 24, 2016, 09:08:42 AM
Quote from: mr. pitts on October 23, 2016, 09:43:33 PM
Plugs look good to me. Are you having problems with something? :idunno:

Having some oil consumption issues.

BTW, thanks for the replies & links.
We need some details of the bike & consumption figures before we can help further.

At this point I really would just like some input on what, if anything, the plugs are revealing. I don't want to bias anyone one way or the other & will have to address the fix on another discussion.

On set 2, bottom photo there are some brown specs on the porcelain just below he front of the electrode, what is that from?
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

Y2KRKNG

It definitely seems like one is darker which would mean a slight imbalance.  Is this a carbureted bike? If so it's good to know which cylinder runs leaner and make sure to monitor that one if you ever add an AFR meter.
My bike has a slight imbalance like this, the rear is a bit richer. I monitor the front
ATP(TurboHarry)95",Mik45,Branch/Mik "Flowmetric" heads,TW55,T.Header 2-1