Oil in intake manifold, not from breathers?

[mattVA]

Does anyone have a nifty trick for removing stuck heads? Both of them won't budge. Yes the head bolts are out. .

I have a brake pad spreader tool like this one and even it isn't doing anything:

[No Cents]

 if the head bolts are all out...tap upward on the bottom side of the head where the p/rod tubes go into it with a rubber mallet.
They should pop right off.

Ray

[mattVA]

if the head bolts are all out...tap upward on the bottom side of the head where the p/rod tubes go into it with a rubber mallet.
They should pop right off.

Ray

Yeah. .not happening. I don't know what's up it's like they seized to the dowels.

[kd]

I think someone posted a wedge type device in the last year that seemed to take care of stubborn heads too.

[Hossamania]

Tap up with a wooden dowel and a 5 lb.?

[1FSTRK]

Does anyone have a nifty trick for removing stuck heads? Both of them won't budge. Yes the head bolts are out. .

Try your heat gun, mainly on the dowel side blowing between the fins right at where the dowels are.
Also looks like the only dry valve and port is the front exhaust, did this engine get run hot?

[Smarty]

How about feeding some 1/4" rope thru the spark plug hole and then rotate the engine with the bike tire in 6th gear. Wouldn't that do it without hurting anything?

[mattVA]

Man those suckers were on there good.

[mattVA]

Rear




Front

[mattVA]

Couple of notes. The mark on front piston from valve contact is known, happened during break in from valve retainer breaking. Oil puddle on rear piston is from me squirting it in the chamber for leak down.

[mattVA]

Top head in pic is front. Both seals are US Seal, bright blue. Bottom head is rear. Seals have no markings. Exhaust looks to be green, intake is blue.

[FlaHeatWave]

Lots of blow by on that rear piston,,,

Are those white spots detonation marks??

[FXDBI]

Looks like leaky guides/seal to me from the start this would glaze the cylinders and rings wont seal right.
It goes down hill from there. To much oil in the intake to be coming past the rings. Your rear piston and exhaust port look some thing like mine did after it ate the seal. You have some work to do on that engine.  Bob

[prodrag1320]

use AV&V seals,also TQ plate the cylinders & check for out of round & tapers

[kd]

Couple of notes. The mark on front piston from valve contact is known, happened during break in from valve retainer breaking. Oil puddle on rear piston is from me squirting it in the chamber for leak down.

The story is starting to come together now. The front intake valve had previously hit the piston during break in. Is it possible that the repair to that valve missed seeing some collateral damage to the guide, guide fit, or head? Was the guide changed? I think that valve contact is the culprit that started everything and should be kept in mind when disassembling for trouble shooting.

[mattVA]

Couple of notes. The mark on front piston from valve contact is known, happened during break in from valve retainer breaking. Oil puddle on rear piston is from me squirting it in the chamber for leak down.

The story is starting to come together now. The front intake valve had previously hit the piston during break in. I'll guess that's why the front intake valve seal is different. Is it possible that the repair to that valve missed seeing some collateral damage to the guide, guide fit, or head? Was the guide changed? I think that valve contact is the culprit that started everything and should be kept in mind when disassembling for trouble shooting.

Yes it will certainly be taken into consideration. The guide did break and was replaced. The rear cylinder not the front is having the most issues

[FlaHeatWave]

Are the white spots at 9 o'clock on the rear cylinder and 11 o'clock on the front cylinder signs of detonation??

[mattVA]

Are the white spots at 9 o'clock on the rear cylinder and 11 o'clock on the front cylinder signs of detonation??

I think that's the camera playing tricks.

[FXDBI]

Myself I would send those heads to SOMEONE ELSE and get them looked over.  Fresh heads shouldn't have valve retainers break.  Of course the head guy will blame the piston and rings. Did you think he would admit he had a booboo. When the valve kissed the piston did you tear it all down again or just do that cylinder? Hope you get this all sorted out. Bob

If it was mine I would send those heads out (elsewhere)  pull the pistons and jugs. Buy a new set of rings and run a glaze breaker thru the cylinders gently and re-ring the bores. Careful not to remove a bunch of material.  Clean the living "Potty mouth" out of them before re-assembly.  Dino oil and a good couple hour ride after assembly .   I run a compression test every oil change just to check bore seal condition.  Bob

[mattVA]

Does anyone have a nifty trick for removing stuck heads? Both of them won't budge. Yes the head bolts are out. .

Try your heat gun, mainly on the dowel side blowing between the fins right at where the dowels are.
Also looks like the only dry valve and port is the front exhaust, did this engine get run hot?

It may have but it was broken in on the dyno, AFR verified and tuned shortly thereafter. Only time it might have been out of tune was with an exhaust change but it was vtuned right away. Then again summers are hot here in Northern Virginia.

[FlaHeatWave]

Are the white spots at 9 o'clock on the rear cylinder and 11 o'clock on the front cylinder signs of detonation??

I think that's the camera playing tricks.

Sorry, I meant to say top of the Piston(s)

[mattVA]

Myself I would send those heads to SOMEONE ELSE and get them looked over.  Fresh heads shouldn't have valve retainers break.  Of course the head guy will blame the piston and rings. Did you think he would admit he had a booboo. When the valve kissed the piston did you tear it all down again or just do that cylinder? Hope you get this all sorted out. Bob

If it was mine I would send those heads out (elsewhere)  pull the pistons and jugs. Buy a new set of rings and run a glaze breaker thru the cylinders gently and re-ring the bores. Careful not to remove a bunch of material.  Clean the living "Potty mouth" out of them before re-assembly.  Dino oil and a good couple hour ride after assembly .   I run a compression test every oil change just to check bore seal condition.  Bob

I let a competent shop near me, forum sponsor here take over when the front retainer broke. At the time front head was sent back for repair/inspection. I believe the rear head was removed but not sent back. There weren't any indicators at the time it needed to be. I'm pretty thorough when I work on my bike but it'll be getting extra attention this time around. I think I want to try that total seal dry film assembly lubricant it's supposed to turn green if ready to go or so I'm told.

[rbabos]

Myself I would send those heads to SOMEONE ELSE and get them looked over.  Fresh heads shouldn't have valve retainers break.  Of course the head guy will blame the piston and rings. Did you think he would admit he had a booboo. When the valve kissed the piston did you tear it all down again or just do that cylinder? Hope you get this all sorted out. Bob

If it was mine I would send those heads out (elsewhere)  pull the pistons and jugs. Buy a new set of rings and run a glaze breaker thru the cylinders gently and re-ring the bores. Careful not to remove a bunch of material.  Clean the living "Potty mouth" out of them before re-assembly.  Dino oil and a good couple hour ride after assembly .   I run a compression test every oil change just to check bore seal condition.  Bob

I let a competent shop near me, forum sponsor here take over when the front retainer broke. At the time front head was sent back for repair/inspection. I believe the rear head was removed but not sent back. There weren't any indicators at the time it needed to be. I'm pretty thorough when I work on my bike but it'll be getting extra attention this time around. I think I want to try that total seal dry film assembly lubricant it's supposed to turn green if ready to go or so I'm told.

Not a fan of assembly lube for cyls. There needs to be plenty of preferably thinner oil flushing the bores during break in. If thick oil or lube hangs around too long during those first few cycles where generated heat is the highest that lack of flushing can cause the cyls to glaze. Once that happens, it will not break in, ever.  Last thing you need is a lube to impede this process. I'd stick with tried and true motor oil. Even that can bite you if the temps are cold using 20/50 on the first runs.
Ron

[m1marty]

I generally use a quality 15/40 conventional oil for the first few 100 miles. 20/50 conventional thereafter until 1k and then switch to synthetic. Absolutely necessary? Maybe not but it works for me.

[Admiral Akbar]

Are the white spots at 9 o'clock on the rear cylinder and 11 o'clock on the front cylinder signs of detonation??

Nope.. Compression release holes do that..