M8 Cams aftermarket

[1FSTRK]

I do not know about the M-8 But John Andrews ground dozens of test cams for the HD factory during the Twin cam development.

[turboprop]

Thousands of M8 Cams, during development, really?

[1FSTRK]

Thousands of M8 Cams, during development, really?

[rbabos]

Thousands of M8 Cams, during development, really?

You took it literally.  HD would have a source planned for production. That outfit would likely build the protos and take it from there once finalized. Standard manufacturing practice. Then they can make thousands.
Ron

[rbabos]

Thousands of M8 Cams, during development, really?

You too?
Ron

[1FSTRK]

Thousands of M8 Cams, during development, really?

You too?
Ron

Not meant toward you Ron, but to his take on your post. He had to edit the quote to take it out of context.
I knew what you were saying.

[rbabos]

Thousands of M8 Cams, during development, really?

You too?
Ron

Not meant toward you Ron, but to his take on your post. He had to edit the quote to take it out of context.
I knew what you were saying.

All good.
Ron

[turboprop]

Thousands of M8 Cams, during development, really?

You too?
Ron

Not meant toward you Ron, but to his take on your post. He had to edit the quote to take it out of context.
I knew what you were saying.

This has gone way off topic. I don't believe anyone outside of Harley saw M8 cams before the public release and maintain that aside from S&S, Zippers, and Andrews there isn't anyone grinding aftermarket cams for the M8.

[wfolarry]

I do believe that HD is grinding their cams in house. Don't quote me on that though.

[ultraswede]

The SE TC cams are ground by Andrews, at least the two I have seen. 263 and 259.

M8 

[1FSTRK]

The SE TC cams are ground by Andrews, at least the two I have seen. 263 and 259.

M8 

How did you determine that?

[Tattoo]

The SE TC cams are ground by Andrews, at least the two I have seen. 263 and 259.

M8 

are you sure about that ?

[No Cents]

 I thought Comp Cams was grinding the SE cams for some time...but now I see Comp Cams has released their own line of cams for the Harley's so I'm assuming they aren't grinding them anymore for the mother ship.

[Don D]

Comp Cams typically grind the SE cams
This motor is going to want different timing than the twin cam, I like and agree with Larrys advise.

[mp]

"And I bet Andrews has been doing that since the day the M8 was released."

At least by proxy anyway. That is, the early private label M8 cam purveyors who chose AP to grind for them in lieu of other grinders.
Andrews M8 cams per the flyer in the AP booth at the Expo:
M450 00/14__34/00 .450__.450 lift
M460 02/18__38/-02 (minus 02) .460__.460 lift

What horrible looking specs.  And on the Andrews website?  Zippo.  Not even a 2016 catalog, much less 2017.  And their price list is from 2014!

[ultraswede]

The SE TC cams are ground by Andrews, at least the two I have seen. 263 and 259.

M8 

are you sure about that ?

My memory failed me, I stand corrected.
It is indeed comp cams that grind the SE cams I have seen. Just pulled out the papers for the 259 cams from the 117 kit.

[Sunny Jim]

I would be careful picking a cam for these. The motor hasn't been out long enough for any real testing & I think some are putting stuff out there just to be first. Err on the side of caution. Some of the cam specs are all over the place.

I have been following the cam debate closely. Interesting what has appeared on the market thus far.
Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is these M8s are around 230 psi CCP. And around 10:1 comp.
pulling the CCP down to around 200 psi would surely be more suitable. Surely we can still create that Seat of the pants feel like one would get from a 107 Twin cam. Presumably this is all about cam design.
Happy to be guided on this one.

[Durwood]

I would be careful picking a cam for these. The motor hasn't been out long enough for any real testing & I think some are putting stuff out there just to be first. Err on the side of caution. Some of the cam specs are all over the place.

I have been following the cam debate closely. Interesting what has appeared on the market thus far.
Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is these M8s are around 230 psi CCP. And around 10:1 comp.
pulling the CCP down to around 200 psi would surely be more suitable. Surely we can still create that Seat of the pants feel like one would get from a 107 Twin cam. Presumably this is all about cam design.
Happy to be guided on this one.

The Milwaukee Eight 107 rolls over at 215/215 with the stock cam, at least mine did, and with the Cycle-Rama 450 it cranks 202/202. I haven't checked a CVO 114, but it comes with the same cam and is 10.5:1, I'd say that is where the 230 came from.

I have the CR-460 sitting on the work bench awaiting install and re-tune. I will post the data as soon as I can.

Jim, my bike is crossing 110 ft# at 2200 rpm, you can definitely feel that in the seat of the pants.

The sheet is here in post 105. http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=95948.100

As soon as the testing is completed Wes will put the final cam design for a stage 2 107 into production, this will be in the next couple of weeks.

Daren

[Sunny Jim]

Thankyou Durwood!
I own an M8. I am apprehensive. Down here in OZ we have heard several reports of porosity in heads and cases, engine studs pulling, noisey gearboxes etc.
I have only 5k(3500 mile) on mine. So far so good. FYI.

[Durwood]

Thankyou Durwood!
I own an M8. I am apprehensive. Down here in OZ we have heard several reports of porosity in heads and cases, engine studs pulling, noisey gearboxes etc.
I have only 5k(3500 mile) on mine. So far so good. FYI.

You're welcome Jim.

Mine only has 1000 miles on it but 700 of them were on the dyno, over 200 max power runs, combined with hours of steady state tuning.

She's a keeper.

[Sunny Jim]

Presumably Andrews are involved with the manufacture of the CR cam. I spoke with TR and he/ they seem to be happy with the progress of their second tier cam - 216. It will interesting to compare the cam specs when the CR cam becomes available.

[1FSTRK]

I would be careful picking a cam for these. The motor hasn't been out long enough for any real testing & I think some are putting stuff out there just to be first. Err on the side of caution. Some of the cam specs are all over the place.

I have been following the cam debate closely. Interesting what has appeared on the market thus far.
Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is these M8s are around 230 psi CCP. And around 10:1 comp.
pulling the CCP down to around 200 psi would surely be more suitable. Surely we can still create that Seat of the pants feel like one would get from a 107 Twin cam. Presumably this is all about cam design.
Happy to be guided on this one.

Just like the cam timing, M-8 CCP needs will not be directly comparable to a twin cam.
You have different flow patterns throughout the cylinder fill cycle, different combustion chamber shape, and dual sparkplugs. When properly set up this should allow the M-8 to having a more positive response to higher CCP's while needing less ignition timing to make better power under the same running conditions. Only time and test will yield the true results of this.

[Durwood]

I would be careful picking a cam for these. The motor hasn't been out long enough for any real testing & I think some are putting stuff out there just to be first. Err on the side of caution. Some of the cam specs are all over the place.

I have been following the cam debate closely. Interesting what has appeared on the market thus far.
Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is these M8s are around 230 psi CCP. And around 10:1 comp.
pulling the CCP down to around 200 psi would surely be more suitable. Surely we can still create that Seat of the pants feel like one would get from a 107 Twin cam. Presumably this is all about cam design.
Happy to be guided on this one.

Just like the cam timing, M-8 CCP needs will not be directly comparable to a twin cam.
You have different flow patterns throughout the cylinder fill cycle, different combustion chamber shape, and dual sparkplugs. When properly set up this should allow the M-8 to having a more positive response to higher CCP's while needing less ignition timing to make better power under the same running conditions. Only time and test will yield the true results of this.

Agreed to all the above.

This engine is a different animal for sure, that's why we are doing all of this testing before releasing a cam just for the sake of releasing a cam.

[Sunny Jim]

TTS has dams in production and more grinds to come. My understanding is these fellas have really don their homework too.

[TorQuePimp]

 Crane did most of the innitial testing and cam core/cam grinding for harley

My friend Jeff bought all three harley TC test mules,the HD engine dyno and everything from the harley dyno cell when crane went belly up.

  Comp no longer grinds cams for harley...contract ended

  Comp is selling cams developed for Dennis Kirk only ATM....they supposedly have more cams on the way after the deal with dennis kirk ends.

Comp has three grinds for the M-8  2 that I have seen dyno sheets for

  The smaller of the two increased power almost 20%