Lifters

[RXBOB]

M8 Lifters at 1400ks

[Ancient]

Not surprised.

[Karl H.]

According to HD service information a frosted roller surface is no quality issue...

[Sunny Jim]

Where can I find that info?

[RXBOB]

I have a theory on this frosting lifter roller

Well two of them

Is it just a shite lifter poor quality

or is this an initial spin up lube or lack of it problem

[joe_lyons]

Tech tip 439 in the documents section

[joe_lyons]

Even though the spring pressures are less per valve adding the two springs per lifter up would that equate to more pressure than before?

[Billy]

What do the cam lobes look like?

[hd06]

 What oil was he using.

[RXBOB]

What do the cam lobes look like?

[RXBOB]

What oil was he using.

what ever HD had in it

[-deuced-]

1400k's is less than a thousand miles. I'm leaning towards theory number one. I wonder why the frosting isn't uniform? Perhaps with a bit more service life it would be. I don't think any other brand would look like that at 1400k's.
I just read that Tech Tip. Maybe the frosting does not have a significant effect on performance. After all, there's an awful lot of bikes getting around with stock lifters that have never been looked at. Least your cam looks ok.
I don't know what the rating of the m8 springs are or what the m8 valves weigh but I'm thinking these two springs combined would be softer than one tc valve spring. Waiting for someone who's pulled an m8 head apart to post spring pressure although I don't think it's the cause of lifter frosting.

[FSG]

[joe_lyons]

The lifters just have to make it two years at an average of 2500 miles a year.  😉

[rbabos]

The lifters just have to make it two years at an average of 2500 miles a year.  😉

Sounds about right.   As long as people keep buying known flaws , MoCo will never change. Good for Indy shops though as they are a never ending source of income.
Ron

[rich1]

Tech tip 439 in the documents section

I have tired but cannot find this. Can someone point me to it?

[Karl H.]

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,11130.0.html

[rich1]

Thanks.

[rich1]

Reading the HD technical bulletin brings up a question. Are they correct that this frosting is just cosmetic and nothing to worry about? I have seen a lot of similar photos in recent years. Most of them were HD C lifters, but aftermarket ones have not been immune to it either. I dont necessarily trust HD on this, so just wondering what those who are smarter than me about this think.

[rbabos]

Reading the HD technical bulletin brings up a question. Are they correct that this frosting is just cosmetic and nothing to worry about? I have seen a lot of similar photos in recent years. Most of them were HD C lifters, but aftermarket ones have not been immune to it either. I dont necessarily trust HD on this, so just wondering what those who are smarter than me about this think.

Good point. It's basically saying there is problem but either they don't know the cause or won't admit to it. Nothing new there. There was never an admission to the 7 year compensator fiasco either.  Frosting is a first stage of a failure and only goes down hill from there. Not one normal person in the auto world or racing would state frosting is only cosmetic and harmless.
Ron

[04 SE Deuce]

I'll bet the combined spring rate of the 2 smaller valve springs isn't much if any more than the TC single spring.

[rich1]

To expand on this "frosted" lifter thread. Since it seems to be a concern to a lot of us. I am retired and have time to waste. So I did some searches yesterday and found an interesting one. And I would not recommend doing what this owner did but thats his business. One owner opened his cam chest up at 37K miles to change the timing chain tensioner shoes. He removed the lifters and they had the typical frosting. He did not replace them, but I would have. He opened it back up at 85K miles to change the cams, shoes, bearings and lifters. The lifters looked about the same at 85K as they did at 37K. I found that interesting and not sure what to make of it. Lucky?

[Karl H.]

Good info! 

[kristian]

M8 Lifters at 1400ks

are the 2 on the left from the same cylinder in/ex? or do you have them arranged in/ex front front and rear? 

[RXBOB]

They are all over the show

all mixed up

[joe_lyons]

How is the vertical roller movement? 

[cmashark]

Just in case it was missed, I was at the dealer and the parts manual calls out the C lifters for our M8's.  So they didn't try to improve anything there!

[kristian]

What do the cam lobes look like?

did you change the inner cam bearing?  what does/did it look like? looks like oils supply issue

[Paniolo]

I'm not an expert so pardon my questions if they seem out of left field. The rollers on the lifters are frosted. The cam shaft appears to be in good condition. Are they made from the same material? What doe S&S make their lifters out of that HD does not? Could it be a matter of different qualities of metal in contact?

[rbabos]

I'm not an expert so pardon my questions if they seem out of left field. The rollers on the lifters are frosted. The cam shaft appears to be in good condition. Are they made from the same material? What doe S&S make their lifters out of that HD does not? Could it be a matter of different qualities of metal in contact?

In reality they should be of two different hardness levels but not by much. Cam should survive and the lifter roller the sacrificial part. Looks like the rollers might be too much on the soft side in some of these cases or not hard enough for the intended loads. If you look at frosting under a scope you can see the surface as being chewed off in chunks and really rough.  Having two rubbing components of equal hardness tends to eat each other up. Quite a science actually.
Ron