VOES adjustments- Successfull or not ?

[PaJoe]

Old Crow:

Do you know if the ignition currently on sale for $99.00 is the same one that ships with Ultima engines?

[Old Crow]

Old Crow:

Do you know if the ignition currently on sale for $99.00 is the same one that ships with Ultima engines?

Not sure.  Jireh part# 53-644. 
The pic on the flyer looks the same as the ignition I have in my evo FLT.  6 little dip switches, a couple of led's and the legend of how to set the switches printed on the front of the module.


Here's the blurb that was printed along with the pic that I couldn't post:


Programmable and Data Recording features require separate purchase of Software package.

Click HERE to see Ignition manual< http://www.jirehproductinfo.com/info/Ignition_Instructions.pdf >
Part # 53-644
$99.99

Ultima USA Made Ignition has intelligent overvoltage/overcurrent protection and adjustable retard timing.  This ignition can be used with single or dual fire setups.

Programmable Features

8 Point fully definable wide open throttle curve.

8 Point fully definable part throttle curve.

Rev limit programmable in 50 rpm steps.

Programmable dead cranking revs 0-10

Programmable rear cylinder offset, total of +/- 10 Degrees.

Programmable rev limiter.

Separate programmable break-in rev limiter


Data Recording Features

Total Engine Hours.

Time at wide open throttle.

Numbers of engine starts (two minutes running time counts as one start.

Longest time operating at wide open throttle.

Maximum rpm.

Seconds near rev limit.

Statistical analysis of time at rpm

[FTBY55]

This afternoon I installed an FLT (5.5" Hg)VOES switch in my '96 FatBoy. SE Heads, 9.5 CR, Vthunder 3010 cam, adjustable P.R.'s, SE Adjst Ignition,curve 3, running Single fire w/Dyna coil, MIK42, cycle shack slip ons.
Weigh 265 and have a strong right wrist. LED installed as per instructions,very dim at idle and cruising, climbing hills or accelerating and the light is full on bright. Unfortunately I now have started hearing that can of marbles rattling under load.
VOES is working per the light but maybe I should go back to stock VOES switch which activated at approx. 3.5-4.0"Hg.
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Tom

[Reddog74usa]

 Did you check the voes to see when it activates? The new one may be off and not activating when it's supposed to. If it's operating correctly try adjusting it to 6.5. I am running a voes with my 113 and have it set at 6.5 with no ping.

[FTBY55]

It activates between 5.0-5.5 inches Hg. The one that I just replaced activated between 3.5 and 4 inches Hg and I did not have the pinging problem. Are my mods so minor on an 80 cu.in. motor that the heavier vacuum unit is not working properly. As I understand the operation high vacuum at idle or cruise= switch closed, normal advance, light off. Low vaccum at load or acceleration= switch open, light on, ignition retarded.

[JBarrettB]

Another way to think of it is in terms of power curve and economy curve.
Power - retarded @25deg switch open. Economy - advanced @35deg switch closed. The higher the threshold the quicker the switch to power as pressure drops and the longer you remain in that curve. The setting I use range from 4.5 - 6.5in hg.

JB 
 

[PaJoe]

I prefer having the LED wired in series, meaning it has to go through the LED before it can go to ground, it must light the led if it advances the timing. In a series connection the led will be off unless the timing is being advanced. It's simple and very effective and certainly works with a Crane Hi-4. Let me try to explain how it worked. First, I used a small 12 volt LED indicator, with built in resistor from Radio Shack ( a regular 12 volt indicator light  bulb will not allow enough current to go to ground for the ignition module to advance)   I unhooked the VOES wire that is attached to ground, on mine it was attached at the upper engine mount. I held the wire from the VOES going to ground in my left hand, that became the red or positive side of the led, my right hand touched the engine mount, that became the black lead or negative side of the led. The current from the VOES when activated goes through the red lead of the led (left hand) and out the black lead of the led ( right hand touching the engine) to the mount causing it to light. It was ON or OFF , no variable states no dim and bright- just ON and OFF. If the LED is lit (on) the current is flowing and the timing is being fully advanced, if the led is off the timing is NOT being advanced (or retarded as some like to say) The led will be lit when cruising and idle, most of the time you are riding and when you open the throttle the led goes out, and the timing stops being advanced (retarded).

[FTBY55]

So than do you believe that by running the LED in parralell I have caused the ignition to stay advanced?
The bulb has a very faint glow to it while idling, when the throttle is twisted or I begin to go up hill it becomes very bright.

Bottom line is what range inches of Hg should I be running on a mild 80" build?

Tom

[PaJoe]

The ignition module looks for ground and it does not care if the ground is through the LED or through the VOES, they both produce the same results, advancing the timing. It sounds to me you now have the timing fully advanced all the time, even though the VOES is dropping out, the current then goes through the LED to ground and tells the ignition to advance the timing.  I recommend you take the LED out of the system or switch it over to series as I described..when the led is lit the timing is being fully advanced, when it is not lit the timing follows the lower advance curve.

If it had no pinging with your old VOES, it should not ping with the vacuum set higher. Keep in mind, whenever the ignition module senses current going to ground it advances the timing, stop the current from going to ground and the timing will not be fully advanced, but will use the lower advance curve. Increasing the hg level forces the VOES to need more vacuum before the switch allows the current to flow to ground and thus fully advancing the timing, having a VOES with a higher setting will not make it ping more, but can eliminate  pinging if it was caused by the vacuum setting of the VOES being set too low.

[TheSwede]

Hi Guys,,,I have no VOES,,because it have nothing to do
with power,,But I have a flip switch that ground the cable
when I set the timing..
I have tested the cable during driveing and there is no
difference in speed with or without grounding the cable.
So my advice is skip the VOES,,and get rid of all hazzle
the only thing that happens is the EPA get pissed,,
because it is  theres idea.
And remember every dyno run is without VOES in function.

Best Regards
TheSwede

[FTBY55]

PaJoe,

   I am using the Radio Shack LED described in the instructions and when running it lights up faintly and gets fully lit when accelerating. If I understand you correctly I am passing enough voltage installed in parralell , to activate the advance curve full time. I purchased the components to fabricate a 6" spool piece with two pigtails that I connected to the LED. I guess I will have another made up with pigtails in the purple w/white tracer line and install the LED in there.
If I leave the VOES fully disconnected I would think that my gas mileage would suffer. Would it be detrimental to the engine to run at the lower advance. I believe that '96 EVO's were designed to run stock at 40 deg full advance. The DYNA  and SE units max at 35 degs total advance???

Tom

[FTBY55]

One other quick question. What is the better position to install the LED, before or after the VOES switch?

[PaJoe]

It was easier for me to get to the wire at the top engine mount, the one that attaches to  the ground, in a series circuit it should not matter where you insert it, the main thing is which is easier for you to work with. I have no idea what color the wires are, but know which one connects to ground.On mine, I just cut the wire about 4 inches up from where the ground is and put two matching connectors, then I used matching connectors on the leads to the LED indicator. I did it that way so I could unplug the LED if it gave me any problems. The only time I had a problem was when the VOES developed a vacuum leak. However, if the VOES goes bad it just doesn't allow the signal to ground and the timing is never fully advanced. As posted previously, you can run without a VOES, just don't ground the wire or the timing will be fully advanced all the time. Also remember which is positive and which is negative, negative is always the side closest to ground (top engine mount on mine), current flows from the ignition module through the voes wire to the ground.


on edit to your previous post:

Once again, I think what is happening, on your current set up is when the LED is dim the current is going through the VOES to ground which advances the timing, when the VOES switch opens the LED gets bright, allowing current to ground also advancing the timing. It is great to show the VOES switch is working but bad in the sense the timing is always fully advanced. You can run without a VOES, it will do no harm to your engine but may affect gas mileage and low speed throttle response. I am not using a VOES on my 113 .

[rdkng]

Thanks for the input.  SUCCESS !   (a big shout out to Pilgrem for the write up)

I had pretty bad ping even at 2200 RPM in 4th gear when I'd roll on the throttle.
(89 inch stroker, SBC heads, Hi4E, (down to curve #3)  561 cam.. almost 10:1 CR)

I adjusted my VOES from stock 5 hg to 6 hg and the ping is gone !
Runs much better.  (this may be the best 'free tweak' I've ever done

yahoo. rdkng