NHRA adds TOP FUEL HARLEY as a class

[1FSTRK]

According to the Pomona TV race coverage NHRA will have the Top Fuel Harley class at several national events this year.
200 CID
98% nitro
single parachute
rules should hold them at about 230 mph 1/4 speeds

[turboprop]

Top Fuel Motorcycle is racing with the NHRA right now at Pomona.

[1FSTRK]

Yes FOXS1 has coverage all weekend.

[prodrag1320]

got a lot of friends out there right now,looking to ride a T/Fer at a couple closer NHRA races,BTW,230 is a VERY good MPH,rules are not "holding" them anywhere.T/F ers usually will run 200-225,with ET`s in the mid six range (6.13 is the quickest ever,DJ Johnson`s bike),which I happen to do the heads & other machine work on

[1FSTRK]

Great to hear your work is out there running strong. We will be watching for you when the races get to where you are out there riding. 

As for the rules, every racer knows that if not for the rules the speeds would be faster. NHRA likes to keep each class within a certain speed range for "Safety" reasons.

[Racepres]

As for the rules, every racer knows that if not for the rules the speeds would be faster. NHRA likes to keep each class within a certain speed range for "Safety" reasons.

^^ Really???

[1FSTRK]

Not sure where all the resistance is coming from 
There is NO speed limit rule, But they have been making race rules to try and keep speeds to what they feel is reasonable for years. Insurance as well as safety become factors. It was widely stated after the death of Scott Kalitta  that the Fuel car classes would be running 1000' instead of the 1/4 mile to keep speeds down. They have changed the Nitro % a few times stating that they needed to keep speeds down. Do you really thing that the chassis and engine rules are no the reason that the Prostock bikes cannot go faster? And isn't it a coincidence that for years the record is just tenths of a mph under 200 mph?  Any proracer  I have ever known has said that if they could go faster if they could do anything they wanted, but that would break the rules. Don't forget they mandated revlimiters on the pro-classes.
You can go as quick as you want but there is only so much room to slow down at many tracks so the speed has to be limited.

Added
You do not have to believe me, ask any NHRA pro class racer or crew chief, or just Google it.

Here just one
http://www.dragracingonline.com/analysis/xvi_1-slower-1.html

[prodrag1320]

The T/F harleys run a lot of sanctoning bodies besides NHRA (been racing on and off with the NHRA as a "exhibition  class for years),100% nitro,no "speed safety" rules,they do around 210-225,230 would be a very,very fast pass.dont need to goggle anything as i work on the bikes & work with the crew chiefs on a regular basis

[prodrag1320]

BTW,check the speeds the F/C & T/F cars are doing now,as fast or faster than when it was 1/4,the NHRA can call it what they want,but the 1000' rule came from the crew chiefs calling for it as the most engine damage was happening in the last 300',expense issue.not a "safety" issue

[1FSTRK]

Well the speeds have been close to the old 1/4 mile record speeds a couple times and each time the NHRA has made changes to re-lower them.

Notice the word "slower" is actually in the title of the link
http://www.dragracingonline.com/analysis/xvi_1-slower-1.html
From the linked article,

"The problem was that, despite constant changes the NHRA has mandated to slow the cars down such as shortening the track length for nitro cars to 1,000 feet instead of 1320 and initially reducing the maximum rpm, the racers found ways to circumvent those measures and defeat what the rev-limiter was supposed to do. Despite those changes, in 2013 Top Fuel cars were again running 328+ mph trap speeds.

At about the halfway point of last season, the NHRA tech department, under the direction of Glen Gray and with help from the rev-limiter manufacturer, MSD, instituted a testing program that included again reducing max rpm and controlling when and how much timing increase the crew chiefs could program into the ignition system.

Some crew chiefs have told me that drivers routinely keep the throttle open for a full quarter mile instead of 1,000 feet resulting in a true top speed significantly over 330 mph. But it should be noted that in 2013 only one NHRA Top Fueler went over 330 mph and that was in testing. During the 2013 season, NHRA's Top Fuel cars attained speeds in the 327-328+ mph range and once again they were going within five mph of the speeds that NHRA said was too fast for some if not all of NHRA's tracks when they implemented the 1,000-foot rule."

[prodrag1320]

OK,"joe drag racer" 

[Racepres]

I will say that the Reason Pro Fuel is Not as Fast as Top Fuel...is the Rules!!!
Be Quite the Sanction that operated without Rules...Huh?

Lots of passes made that are Faster than the Record...Quicker sometimes also...which is What Wins Races!!!
That is why there is the rule about "back-up" passes...
BTW What are the NHRA Records for TFH?  Hmmm

Speaking of Rules....I think I'll go make some!!!  LOL
Books anyway!!! Don't get nervous Kirby!!

[prodrag1320]

I will say that the Reason Pro Fuel is Not as Fast as Top Fuel...is the Rules!!!
Be Quite the Sanction that operated without Rules...Huh?

Lots of passes made that are Faster than the Record...Quicker sometimes also...which is What Wins Races!!!
That is why there is the rule about "back-up" passes...
BTW What are the NHRA Records for TFH?  Hmmm

Speaking of Rules....I think I'll go make some!!!  LOL
Books anyway!!! Don't get nervous Kirby!!

if your referring to my response with this marty,i never said there are no rules,but there are no rules to purposely slow down bikes for safety reasons

[Racepres]

No Kirby...the only reference for you, was to not Worry about Rule Changes...
Working on the Book...not the Rules...
On Rules purposely restricting Top Speeds...we Agree....

I still do wonder tho....What are the "records" for TFH in NHRA???

[prodrag1320]

ide have to assume its jays 6.27 @ 220 something he ran last weekend (first real race as a class,race,so I don't think theres any "records" from just when it was exhibition)

[Shooter1]

All I know is I'm glad they are bringing the TF Harleys to the Heartland Park Topeka Kansas event. Hell we couldn't even get the Pro stock bikes here. I e-mailed NHRA years ago suggesting they consider rotating the PS bike schedule so the venues that never got to see them might get them every 3 maybe 4 years or so. I didn't expect a reply and didn't get one and no, we never got the PS bikes either.

Years ago I think for one year only, they did a PF/TF HD exhibition, only had maybe 8 bikes and ran them after the PS cars. About 70% of the crowd left to go to the pits. I hope we get a big bike count and they market the class well before and during the race so people will stay in their seats. Nothing like watching a TF H-D carry the front wheel to half track to make you a believer.

[Racepres]

^^ Been my Experience that TF is getting more and more expensive.  And the average "customer" won't pay for it... A few cry about not having it...but even fewer are willing to pay more for them!
In My world Anyway!!!
BTW when you see a Street Tire bike without a bar go 160+MPH in the 8's...it is pretty Friggin Cool too!!!!
Watching a Top Fueler that does 8's? Not so much!!!!!

[1FSTRK]

BTW,check the speeds the F/C & T/F cars are doing now,as fast or faster than when it was 1/4,the NHRA can call it what they want,but the 1000' rule came from the crew chiefs calling for it as the most engine damage was happening in the last 300',expense issue.not a "safety" issue

Really?
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20131109/nhra-debate-rages-on-1000-vs-traditional-1320-feet

[garyajaz]

too many rules.
T/F fuel should be just that.
TOP
multi engines, super chargers, anything.
I stopped racing bikes 40 years ago.
went boat racing. had a nice class.
MOD U hydro. (outboards)
ok, modifications Unlimited.
I made one that went well.
oh, YOU violated the rules.
huh? what rules?  what part of Unlimited don't I understand.
well yeah, but you cant do that....
oh...why?
its too quick.
is not the reason I racing??

[kd]

Gary, that's Unlimited ... "ish"   

[prodrag1320]

too many rules.
T/F fuel should be just that.
TOP
multi engines, super chargers, anything.
I stopped racing bikes 40 years ago.
went boat racing. had a nice class.
MOD U hydro. (outboards)
ok, modifications Unlimited.
I made one that went well.
oh, YOU violated the rules.
huh? what rules?  what part of Unlimited don't I understand.
well yeah, but you cant do that....
oh...why?
its too quick.
is not the reason I racing??

top fuel Harley is pretty much "anything goes",they do have a 200" limit,but not much besides that.my class does have a 120",high gear with carbs,but even that's about it

[prodrag1320]

Well the speeds have been close to the old 1/4 mile record speeds a couple times and each time the NHRA has made changes to re-lower them.

Notice the word "slower" is actually in the title of the link
http://www.dragracingonline.com/analysis/xvi_1-slower-1.html
From the linked article,

"The problem was that, despite constant changes the NHRA has mandated to slow the cars down such as shortening the track length for nitro cars to 1,000 feet instead of 1320 and initially reducing the maximum rpm, the racers found ways to circumvent those measures and defeat what the rev-limiter was supposed to do. Despite those changes, in 2013 Top Fuel cars were again running 328+ mph trap speeds.

At about the halfway point of last season, the NHRA tech department, under the direction of Glen Gray and with help from the rev-limiter manufacturer, MSD, instituted a testing program that included again reducing max rpm and controlling when and how much timing increase the crew chiefs could program into the ignition system.

Some crew chiefs have told me that drivers routinely keep the throttle open for a full quarter mile instead of 1,000 feet resulting in a true top speed significantly over 330 mph. But it should be noted that in 2013 only one NHRA Top Fueler went over 330 mph and that was in testing. During the 2013 season, NHRA's Top Fuel cars attained speeds in the 327-328+ mph range and once again they were going within five mph of the speeds that NHRA said was too fast for some if not all of NHRA's tracks when they implemented the 1,000-foot rule."

so I guess that's why both F/C & T/F are running consistently over 330 now,@ 1000'.pretty much the same as they ran in the 1/4 mile.i may not be good at "cutting & pasting" "Potty mouth",but ive been involved in drag racing for close to 40 years,so I know whats going on.if the NHRA was so concerned with safety as far as speeds go,they`de lengthen the shorter track for more run off (the last race in Pomona is the shortest track on the circuit,instead of making the track longer,they built a 1.5 million $$ timing tower.gainsville here in florida is the longest track and could easily have cars stop if they were going 350+.it was a $$ deal cause the teams were hurting too many parts in the last 320'

[prodrag1320]

All I know is I'm glad they are bringing the TF Harleys to the Heartland Park Topeka Kansas event. Hell we couldn't even get the Pro stock bikes here. I e-mailed NHRA years ago suggesting they consider rotating the PS bike schedule so the venues that never got to see them might get them every 3 maybe 4 years or so. I didn't expect a reply and didn't get one and no, we never got the PS bikes either.

Years ago I think for one year only, they did a PF/TF HD exhibition, only had maybe 8 bikes and ran them after the PS cars. About 70% of the crowd left to go to the pits. I hope we get a big bike count and they market the class well before and during the race so people will stay in their seats. Nothing like watching a TF H-D carry the front wheel to half track to make you a believer.

the T/F hd`s will only race at the races where P/S bikes wont be.I was at last years Topeka race helping out on DJ johnsons T/F hd,hell of a facility there!!

[1FSTRK]

Well the speeds have been close to the old 1/4 mile record speeds a couple times and each time the NHRA has made changes to re-lower them.

Notice the word "slower" is actually in the title of the link
http://www.dragracingonline.com/analysis/xvi_1-slower-1.html
From the linked article,

"The problem was that, despite constant changes the NHRA has mandated to slow the cars down such as shortening the track length for nitro cars to 1,000 feet instead of 1320 and initially reducing the maximum rpm, the racers found ways to circumvent those measures and defeat what the rev-limiter was supposed to do. Despite those changes, in 2013 Top Fuel cars were again running 328+ mph trap speeds.

At about the halfway point of last season, the NHRA tech department, under the direction of Glen Gray and with help from the rev-limiter manufacturer, MSD, instituted a testing program that included again reducing max rpm and controlling when and how much timing increase the crew chiefs could program into the ignition system.

Some crew chiefs have told me that drivers routinely keep the throttle open for a full quarter mile instead of 1,000 feet resulting in a true top speed significantly over 330 mph. But it should be noted that in 2013 only one NHRA Top Fueler went over 330 mph and that was in testing. During the 2013 season, NHRA's Top Fuel cars attained speeds in the 327-328+ mph range and once again they were going within five mph of the speeds that NHRA said was too fast for some if not all of NHRA's tracks when they implemented the 1,000-foot rule."

so I guess that's why both F/C & T/F are running consistently over 330 now,@ 1000'.pretty much the same as they ran in the 1/4 mile.i may not be good at "cutting & pasting" "Potty mouth",but ive been involved in drag racing for close to 40 years,so I know whats going on.if the NHRA was so concerned with safety as far as speeds go,they`de lengthen the shorter track for more run off (the last race in Pomona is the shortest track on the circuit,instead of making the track longer,they built a 1.5 million $$ timing tower.gainsville here in florida is the longest track and could easily have cars stop if they were going 350+.it was a $$ deal cause the teams were hurting too many parts in the last 320'

I cut, paste and provide links so that anyone here that reads and is actually interested in how this stuff really works can see I have not given an opinion here. I just post the links to the people that actual know and state publicly the facts that are a direct contradiction to your opinions and unfounded claims.

You are not arguing with me, you are arguing with them.

Thanks for taking away from my thread on NHRA class and the welcome TV coverage of it.
Your reply will let you get the last word, I am done here.

[garyajaz]

LOL  KD.
"unlimited  ish"
I think you hit it on head.
also I was told its not nice to beat the factory guys.
then some rules came out pretty much directed at my boat.
I quit the hydro world and went tunnel  formula boats.
there were many rules.  but not just for my boat.
when they went capsule it priced lots of us little shop guys out.