M8 trans fluid leaking in primary

[JYHD1]

After reading about the problems of trans fluid migrating to the primary, I checked the trans fluid in our 17' RK tonight and it's still at the full mark with 2,700 miles on it since the 1,000 mile service. Bel Ray 85W140 hypoid gear lube is what they put in it at the 1,000 mile service.

[harleytuner]

I believe the MoCo theory is/was the tear in the seal was allowing crankcase pressure to create a vacuum in the primary which in turn pulls the trans fluid through.   That was my point  venting the primary seperate to either prove this theory or disprove it.   Hopefully Darren will be able to test it,  I'm not sure when ill have another problem M8 in for a time to test it myself. Or if ill have the time to test even if i get one.

After your explanation I understand. It sounds kind of far out though. At this point I guess they are trying to rule out everything.

I think they are just trying anything.

[rigidthumper]

If you don't know where you are going, any path will take you there...

[Buglet]

     I had 3 16's in this week 2 were find 1 lose 16oz from transmission in 500 mi. The one that lost the oil had transmission work to take the neutral rattle out. There were a couple of parts that were change to the 17 part #. Now it has the oil problem. I would not think its the motor seal. Its a twin cam not a M8.   

[Durwood]

     I had 3 16's in this week 2 were find 1 lose 16oz from transmission in 500 mi. The one that lost the oil had transmission work to take the neutral rattle out. There were a couple of parts that were change to the 17 part #. Now it has the oil problem. I would not think its the motor seal. Its a twin cam not a M8.

I've had one 2016 which I mentioned earlier that the primary was overfull and the trans was low, but it's not had any work performed on it other than the service I just did...This one could have been a coincidence, but I honestly can't see someone filling the primary all the way to the access whole in the cover.

What parts were changed in the one you had issue with?

[harleytuner]

If you don't know where you are going, any path will take you there...

This is true. Even if the parts they are changing don't fix the problem,  its parts they can eliminate as the cause

[1FSTRK]

     I had 3 16's in this week 2 were find 1 lose 16oz from transmission in 500 mi. The one that lost the oil had transmission work to take the neutral rattle out. There were a couple of parts that were change to the 17 part #. Now it has the oil problem. I would not think its the motor seal. Its a twin cam not a M8.

Which 17 parts were used?

[Bike31]

Ok I'll speculate...to remove the neutral rattle noted in #403 replace the 2016's plain gear 35600104 COUNTERSHAFT XMSN 1ST GEAR with the 2017's 35600103 GEAR ASSEMBLY COUNTERSHAFT-FIRST (scissor gear). The 35467-06 INPUT SHAFT KIT is the same P/N for both years. The countershaft is the same P/N for 2016 and 2017 as well.

Ok this isn't an answer, but maybe....?

[tommy g]

If you don't know where you are going, any path will take you there...

The "quiet" Beatle.

[Sunny Jim]

Is this oil transition issue pressure based or vacuum based?

[Hossamania]

Is this oil transition issue pressure based or vacuum based?

Therein lies the issue. It doesn't sound like it has been positively identified yet.

[VDeuce]

Ok I'll speculate...to remove the neutral rattle noted in #403 replace the 2016's plain gear 35600104 COUNTERSHAFT XMSN 1ST GEAR with the 2017's 35600103 GEAR ASSEMBLY COUNTERSHAFT-FIRST (scissor gear). The 35467-06 INPUT SHAFT KIT is the same P/N for both years. The countershaft is the same P/N for 2016 and 2017 as well.

Ok this isn't an answer, but maybe....?

I've been wondering for some time if that scissor gear is acting as a pump...

[rbabos]

Is this oil transition issue pressure based or vacuum based?

Therein lies the issue. It doesn't sound like it has been positively identified yet.

It has but mums the word. There is no way in hell all those people at MoCo haven't found out what causes it. HD is the X files and area 51 in the motorcycle world.
Ron

[Scooterfish]

I assume the longer HD remains mum the bigger the expense is for them to fix. 

[harleytuner]

Is this oil transition issue pressure based or vacuum based?

Therein lies the issue. It doesn't sound like it has been positively identified yet.

It has but mums the word. There is no way in hell all those people at MoCo haven't found out what causes it. HD is the X files and area 51 in the motorcycle world.
Ron

I wouldn't be surprised if they found the problem, their probably looking for the cheapest way to fix it.

[Dan89flstc]

     I had 3 16's in this week 2 were find 1 lose 16oz from transmission in 500 mi. The one that lost the oil had transmission work to take the neutral rattle out.   

Was the `16 that appeared to have the oil transfer issue a hydraulic clutch type?

[Buglet]

   According to the paper work only two part #s where 17 #s one was 35600103 cs 1st gear and the other was 11000010 ball bearing for the cs. The rest of the part #s are the same that they changed.

[Bike31]

   According to the paper work only two part #s where 17 #s one was 35600103 cs 1st gear and the other was 11000010 ball bearing for the cs. The rest of the part #s are the same that they changed.

And it's transferring trans oil because of the parts changeout to the 2017 1st countershaft scissor gear and bearing end housing bearing? I guess we could suspect either or both of the parts as the cause. The trans is a 2016 with factory gaskets so.......now what's the fix?

[Bike31]

Grabbed this image from a Google search. It's the countershaft scissor gear.

Speculation:

Could oil get moved to the center and through the end bearing during high rpm running? Might cause a surplus that gets transferred. Could the new 11000010 bearing allow for more oil transfer than the old? Or maybe a combination of factors.

[Sunny Jim]

While it's spinning! I would've thought not. I guess we will see.

[1FSTRK]

I would think the cavity I circled in red would have to be full of oil up to the level of the center hole in the mainshaft to transfer the amount of oil we are seeing in the amount of time it is taking. Why not drill a drain hole back into the trans cavity at the bottom where I put the red arrow so that the oil can not be trapped and accumulate?

[Bike31]

If the only changes to the 2016 transmission in Post #403 above were the two parts noted (2017 scissor gear/bearing) and if suspected lube transfer started as a result, then...why not re-install the 2016 gear and bearing...but one at a time if possible...and see what happens?

[harleytuner]

If the only changes to the 2016 transmission in Post #403 above were the two parts noted (2017 scissor gear/bearing) and if suspected lube transfer started as a result, then...why not re-install the 2016 gear and bearing...but one at a time if possible...and see what happens?

Case was changed as well. It's smaller

[1FSTRK]

If the only changes to the 2016 transmission in Post #403 above were the two parts noted (2017 scissor gear/bearing) and if suspected lube transfer started as a result, then...why not re-install the 2016 gear and bearing...but one at a time if possible...and see what happens?

Case was changed as well. It's smaller

Chad we were talking about the 2016 bike in this post.

     I had 3 16's in this week 2 were find 1 lose 16oz from transmission in 500 mi. The one that lost the oil had transmission work to take the neutral rattle out. There were a couple of parts that were change to the 17 part #. Now it has the oil problem. I would not think its the motor seal. Its a twin cam not a M8.

[harleytuner]

If the only changes to the 2016 transmission in Post #403 above were the two parts noted (2017 scissor gear/bearing) and if suspected lube transfer started as a result, then...why not re-install the 2016 gear and bearing...but one at a time if possible...and see what happens?

Case was changed as well. It's smaller

Chad we were talking about the 2016 bike in this post.

     I had 3 16's in this week 2 were find 1 lose 16oz from transmission in 500 mi. The one that lost the oil had transmission work to take the neutral rattle out. There were a couple of parts that were change to the 17 part #. Now it has the oil problem. I would not think its the motor seal. Its a twin cam not a M8.

lol...oops.  at least I didn't have a bunch of typos!!