M8 trans fluid leaking in primary

[14GuineaPig]

On HD's SIP website it shows a recent bulletin (Tech Article) regarding the transfer of trans oil into the primary.  Unfortunately I don't have access to see what the bulletin says but here's the number/name for all of those that have dealers who "never heard of that before"

TA0022: Transmission to Primary Oil Transfer

[hattitude]

FSG beat you to it...

TA0022: Transmission to Primary Oil Transfer... it was issued on 9/27/17 and it's listed in the Tech Articles section here on this forum...

[Karl H.]

What the TA0022 tells us:

- excessive oil transfer with some engines started with the 2014 TC touring models and continued with the M8 touring models (2017/2018)
- little transfer is normal
- if it is more than 5 oz in 5,000miles action is needed
- fix for affected TC engines is replacing the oil seal and spacer
- no fix for the M8 yet. Just check oil level after 1,000 miles if transfer was more than 5 oz in 5,000miles.

Karl

[1FSTRK]

It sounds like there are two different problems and that is causing some confusion when it come to diagnosing and curing each problem.

[14GuineaPig]

Thanks FSG for posting a copy of TA0022.  I was hoping that someone would and now it's available for everyone to read.

As I stated in my post, I didn't have access to the document so I couldn't read or copy it.
And as HATTITUDE was kind enough to point out, "FSG beat you to it..." Yes he certainly did because he had a copy of the document.

Looks like only HD is late since it states that the condition could exist since the release of the "Rushmore" models.

 

[Buglet]

      Here,s one the 16 that was updated with 17 parts, first check 500 mi transferred 16 0z. Drain and refill 700.mi transferred nothing.

[FSG]

JMOOC  the problem was introduced in 2014 (see the Tech Forum) and has since been compounded with the introduction of the A&S Clutch.

[14GuineaPig]

You're probably right.
Just a question .... Was the A&S Clutch ever used in the cable operated clutch 2014+ touring models?  I guess that would be limited to the 2014-2016 Road King.
I also wonder if the gear that eliminates the neutral rattle on the 2017+ models contributes to the condition.

[Ozbob]

Are the 2018 cable operated clutch mechanisms in the softails compatible to the 17-18 tourer's

[rigidthumper]

Are the 2018 cable operated clutch mechanisms in the softails compatible to the 17-18 tourer's

Yes, you'd have to use lever/perch/cable(both halves)/side cover/ball& ramp assy/pushrod/throw out bearing/adjuster/nut. Couple hundred bucks in parts to switch over.

[Rockout Rocker Products]

My '15 Limited Low has the A&S clutch, as well as the narrow primary that went system wide in '16. Never a drop transferred. I don't even check the fluid level between changes any more. 

[1FSTRK]

My '15 Limited Low has the A&S clutch, as well as the narrow primary that went system wide in '16. Never a drop transferred. I don't even check the fluid level between changes any more. 

Manual or hydraulic clutch?

[FSG]

My '15 Limited Low has the A&S clutch, as well as the narrow primary that went system wide in '16. Never a drop transferred. I don't even check the fluid level between changes any more. 

and it has a pre Brembo Slave Cylinder which may not react as much to the A&S Clutch action

[FSG]

one easy thing to do is change those nyloc nuts (item #7), at least the one on the mainshaft, to a thin nut with no dome and use loctite, this would increase the clearance to the hyd inside cover and not push as much oil into the slave cylinder recess

[PoorUB]

My '15 Limited Low has the A&S clutch, as well as the narrow primary that went system wide in '16. Never a drop transferred. I don't even check the fluid level between changes any more. 

My '16 Limited has never transferred an measurable amount either. 10,000-15,000 miles on the tranny lube and still up on the stick. The engine uses very little oil too, 7,500 miles on the oil change and I added a few ounces when I changed the oil filter. Best Twin Cam I have owned out of the three years, '05 and '10.

[Karl H.]

 After reading the SIP info I checked the oil level in the tranny of my '14 Street Glide. The dipstick was dry (>5 oz off)...

Karl

[Durwood]

I would think the cavity I circled in red would have to be full of oil up to the level of the center hole in the mainshaft to transfer the amount of oil we are seeing in the amount of time it is taking. Why not drill a drain hole back into the trans cavity at the bottom where I put the red arrow so that the oil can not be trapped and accumulate?

I believe that Eric and FSG have the right idea..If the oil doesn't accumulate there is nothing to transfer. I am trying this next.

[Sunny Jim]

So what are you actually saying? The oil accumulates in the area circled? Surely drilling out the area below the shaft , would assist with drainage.
Any thoughts.?

[rbabos]

So what are you actually saying? The oil accumulates in the area circled? Surely drilling out the area below the shaft , would assist with drainage.
Any thoughts.?

Makes sense. With oil in that cavity the slave would act like a piston pump to some extent on each shift. Surely the MoCo Einsteins would have figured this out if that was the cause. Are the 18s having the same issue?
Ron

[1FSTRK]

The slave pumping would add to it but just the fact that it is designed to funnel oil in and has no return will cause oil to continuely run down the main shaft into the primary.

[Durwood]

So what are you actually saying? The oil accumulates in the area circled? Surely drilling out the area below the shaft , would assist with drainage.
Any thoughts.?

That's what I am thinking...If a guy blocks the entry then the primary can't vent, so with Eric's example it shouldn't accumulate to the point where it can get to the main shaft.

This time I am going to go back to the Schaeffer's 75/140 in the trans, as it is green in color and I will be able to detect transfer without having to log a bunch of miles.

A trip to the dyno, then pull the derby cover and see if the Formula plus has changed colors and/or smell. It definitely makes sense.

[Karl H.]

While the tranfer problem got worse with the M8 the problem started with the 2014 Rushmore models (Twin Cam). Comparing the pre 2014 CVO with the 2014 Rushmore (both with the same hydraulic clutch system) I can only find the pushrod as being different. A guy over here in Germany installed the pre 2014 pushrod in his M8 and stopped the oil transfer so far. 

Karl

[hd06]

 I'm sure this small problem will get worked out.

[PoorUB]

I'm sure this small problem will get worked out.

sure it will, when HD does the next major design change, like in 20 years!

[rbabos]

I'm sure this small problem will get worked out.

sure it will, when HD does the next major design change, like in 20 years!

Good one. Sad but true. Based on what I'm seeing with this issue and several others, no more new HDs for me. Matter of fact, if it wasn't for my current trouble free v rod I'd be riding a different brand. Issues like this are normally dealt with in a swift manor or customers change brands. A year in and same bs.  I was really hoping the M8 would be something special. Well,  it isn't in my view.
Ron