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Clutch release ramps

Started by tmwmoose, February 18, 2017, 10:32:23 AM

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Ohio HD

Quote from: FSG on February 18, 2017, 06:56:51 PM
Can you eyeball the difference between a BT Inner Ramp and a XL Outer Ramp?   :wink:



Well, they do look the same....   sorta....     :smilep:

koko3052

Mirrored image I would say.  :wink:

tmwmoose

MAN is this going to be on the test end of the month?  :emsad:I hate tests

crazy joe

I have my clutch adjusted at at 3/4 turn at the hub with the the cable loose
so i have plenty of slack. after hub is is adjusted I set free play at about 1/16"
I would like to have a little more travel in the lever when I'm in the fiction zone.
Would changing the ramps accomplish this?

Ohio HD

February 19, 2017, 08:09:11 AM #29 Last Edit: February 04, 2024, 01:07:40 AM by FSG
Quote from: klammer76 on February 18, 2017, 07:13:27 PMI recently installed my Muller in my SE 6 speed. Have it adjusted 1/4 turn out from bottom on the adjustment screw and what I thought was 1/16 on cable. Clutch travel measures .050 at the adjustment screw. I need to lower the table lift down and readjust the cable again. Haven't had the bike out as still winter here. Pull is as nice with the Muller as it was with the white bros easy boy.

0.050" is a bit on the short side for push rode travel. I try to get at least 0.070" to keep the clutch from dragging.


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twincam8888

Quote from: crazy joe on February 19, 2017, 08:00:42 AM
I have my clutch adjusted at at 3/4 turn at the hub with the the cable loose
so i have plenty of slack. after hub is is adjusted I set free play at about 1/16"
I would like to have a little more travel in the lever when I'm in the fiction zone.
Would changing the ramps accomplish this?
What year and model is your bike?
But what do I know? I drive a party bus.

crazy joe


klammer76

Quote from: Ohio HD on February 19, 2017, 08:09:11 AM
Quote from: klammer76 on February 18, 2017, 07:13:27 PM
I recently installed my Muller in my SE 6 speed. Have it adjusted 1/4 turn out from bottom on the adjustment screw and what I thought was 1/16 on cable. Clutch travel measures .050 at the adjustment screw. I need to lower the table lift down and readjust the cable again. Haven't had the bike out as still winter here. Pull is as nice with the Muller as it was with the white bros easy boy.

0.050" is a bit on the short side for push rode travel. I try to get at least 0.070" to keep the clutch from dragging.


[attach=0]
Yeah, I know. Still have to play with the adjustment. Muller says 2mm which is .078 IIRC.


FSG

cold leave next to nothing at the lever and a hair to half at the ramps, as the engine/clutch/trannie warm then the "next to nothing" and the "hair" will grow

twincam8888

Quote from: crazy joe on February 19, 2017, 08:00:42 AM
I have my clutch adjusted at at 3/4 turn at the hub with the the cable loose
so i have plenty of slack. after hub is is adjusted I set free play at about 1/16"
I would like to have a little more travel in the lever when I'm in the fiction zone.
Would changing the ramps accomplish this?
Your 2003 has 21 degree ramps, switching to the 18 degree ramps will give you "a little more travel in the lever when I'm in the fiction zone".
But what do I know? I drive a party bus.

tmwmoose

Well ya all got me confused which set up gives the most throw out movement at the pressure plate 18- 21?

twincam8888

Quote from: tmwmoose on February 20, 2017, 05:12:49 AM
Well ya all got me confused which set up gives the most throw out movement at the pressure plate 18- 21?

The 21.
But what do I know? I drive a party bus.

machinist

The 21 degree gives you the most plate separation. (steeper angle same total rotation angle)
"it was a black bike officer"

koko3052

Quote from: machinist on February 20, 2017, 06:22:51 AM
The 21 degree gives you the most plate separation. (steeper angle same total rotation angle)

You are correct with (steeper angle same total rotation angle), but isn't 18 steeper than 21? :nix:

Ohio HD

21 is more travel, and more force on the clutch lever to the rider.


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koko3052

Now you have me  :scratch: Brian. More travel should equal less force?

koko3052


BUBBIE

Quote from: koko3052 on February 20, 2017, 07:36:26 AM
Now you have me  :scratch: Brian. More travel should equal less force?

My thinking TOO...  :scratch:

signed....BUBBIE
***********************
Quite Often I am Right, so Forgive me when I'm WRONG !!!

twincam8888

Quote from: koko3052 on February 20, 2017, 07:36:26 AM
Now you have me  :scratch: Brian. More travel should equal less force?
The 21 degree causes more travel at the pushrod for a given travel at the lever. So stiffer pull at the lever due to less "leverage" if you will. 18 degree pull at the lever is a little softer because you are not pushing the pushrod quite as far for a given amount of clutch lever travel.
But what do I know? I drive a party bus.

tmwmoose

Quote from: twincam8888 on February 20, 2017, 08:55:29 AM
Quote from: koko3052 on February 20, 2017, 07:36:26 AM
Now you have me  :scratch: Brian. More travel should equal less force?
The 21 degree causes more travel at the pushrod for a given travel at the lever. So stiffer pull at the lever due to less "leverage" if you will. 18 degree pull at the lever is a little softer because you are not pushing the pushrod quite as far for a given amount of clutch lever travel.


Yeah must be since the Muller is 15 degree

koko3052

Quote from: twincam8888 on February 20, 2017, 08:55:29 AM
Quote from: koko3052 on February 20, 2017, 07:36:26 AM
Now you have me  :scratch: Brian. More travel should equal less force?
The 21 degree causes more travel at the pushrod for a given travel at the lever. So stiffer pull at the lever due to less "leverage" if you will. 18 degree pull at the lever is a little softer because you are not pushing the pushrod quite as far for a given amount of clutch lever travel.


I will beg to differ with you. I believe that 18 & 21  degree move the pushrod the same distance, the only difference being the amount of effort used and the "speed" to which it gets to that point. (speed being a very finite term)
18 degree is a "faster" ramp so should take slightly more effort (harder pull)


"Your 2003 has 21 degree ramps, switching to the 18 degree ramps will give you "a little more travel in the lever when I'm in the fiction zone"."
Doesn't this mean that the "ratio" at the lever is greater with an 18 degree...so it is a steeper angle because it is moving less distance. Steeper angle =more resistance =harder pull.

Hossamania

When riding a bicycle up a hill, a 21 degree hill will be steeper than an 18 degree hill. Now, imagine two valleys, riding down into and back out these valleys. And, both these valleys are the same distance across, tip to tip. One valley is 18 degree slope down and up, and one is 21. The 21 is going to be a deeper V, and therefore more distance traveled. This will make it harder to pedal back up the other side, since it is steeper and longer.
This correlates to the "divots" on the clutch throwout.
Therefore, it is easier to pull the clutch handle on an 18 degree ramp than a 21, because it is traveling less distance and performing less work. This also causes the handle to be easier to modulate as more movement performs less work. But, less work also means less stack movement and separation.
So there.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

fatboy

Quote from: Hossamania on February 20, 2017, 01:39:27 PM
When riding a bicycle up a hill, a 21 degree hill will be steeper than an 18 degree hill. Now, imagine two valleys, riding down into and back out these valleys. And, both these valleys are the same distance across, tip to tip. One valley is 18 degree slope down and up, and one is 21. The 21 is going to be a deeper V, and therefore more distance traveled. This will make it harder to pedal back up the other side, since it is steeper and longer.
This correlates to the "divots" on the clutch throwout.
Therefore, it is easier to pull the clutch handle on an 18 degree ramp than a 21, because it is traveling less distance and performing less work. This also causes the handle to be easier to modulate as more movement performs less work. But, less work also means less stack movement and separation.
So there.
So no magic bullet ... Same pull distance at the handle bars,  you going to have to give one or the other; longer lever arm and add a steeper angle you got a wash.

tmwmoose

Quote from: Hossamania on February 20, 2017, 01:39:27 PM
When riding a bicycle up a hill, a 21 degree hill will be steeper than an 18 degree hill. Now, imagine two valleys, riding down into and back out these valleys. And, both these valleys are the same distance across, tip to tip. One valley is 18 degree slope down and up, and one is 21. The 21 is going to be a deeper V, and therefore more distance traveled. This will make it harder to pedal back up the other side, since it is steeper and longer.
This correlates to the "divots" on the clutch throwout.
Therefore, it is easier to pull the clutch handle on an 18 degree ramp than a 21, because it is traveling less distance and performing less work. This also causes the handle to be easier to modulate as more movement performs less work. But, less work also means less stack movement and separation.
So there.



Dang Hoss your going to ace the test Friday and I'm going to sit right behind you hmmm maybe not if yer big like your name you left  or right handed ::)

1FSTRK

Quote from: Hossamania on February 20, 2017, 01:39:27 PM
When riding a bicycle up a hill, a 21 degree hill will be steeper than an 18 degree hill. Now, imagine two valleys, riding down into and back out these valleys. And, both these valleys are the same distance across, tip to tip. One valley is 18 degree slope down and up, and one is 21. The 21 is going to be a deeper V, and therefore more distance traveled. This will make it harder to pedal back up the other side, since it is steeper and longer.
This correlates to the "divots" on the clutch throwout.
Therefore, it is easier to pull the clutch handle on an 18 degree ramp than a 21, because it is traveling less distance and performing less work. This also causes the handle to be easier to modulate as more movement performs less work. But, less work also means less stack movement and separation.
So there.

Now could you do one about the two trains traveling at different speeds in opposite directions for us?
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."