Clutch release ramps

[koko3052]

When riding a bicycle up a hill, a 21 degree hill will be steeper than an 18 degree hill. Now, imagine two valleys, riding down into and back out these valleys. And, both these valleys are the same distance across, tip to tip. One valley is 18 degree slope down and up, and one is 21. The 21 is going to be a deeper V, and therefore more distance traveled. This will make it harder to pedal back up the other side, since it is steeper and longer.
This correlates to the "divots" on the clutch throwout.
Therefore, it is easier to pull the clutch handle on an 18 degree ramp than a 21, because it is traveling less distance and performing less work. This also causes the handle to be easier to modulate as more movement performs less work. But, less work also means less stack movement and separation.
So there.

Now could you do one about the two trains traveling at different speeds in opposite directions for us?

[koko3052]

   Hoss, that was an excellent explanation, now you may sit at the front of the class & that way we won't be able to see all the dummies sitting behind you!

That really was & I see it as to your explanation. My trouble was that I was thinking that the degrees were the "other" way & that the more degrees there were that the longer the slots would be until they were 180 degrees & the slots would be flat...hence why I differed.

[Ohio HD]

Now you have me  Brian. More travel should equal less force?

The 21 degree causes more travel at the pushrod for a given travel at the lever. So stiffer pull at the lever due to less "leverage" if you will. 18 degree pull at the lever is a little softer because you are not pushing the pushrod quite as far for a given amount of clutch lever travel.

I will beg to differ with you. I believe that 18 & 21  degree move the pushrod the same distance, the only difference being the amount of effort used and the "speed" to which it gets to that point. (speed being a very finite term)
18 degree is a "faster" ramp so should take slightly more effort (harder pull)


"Your 2003 has 21 degree ramps, switching to the 18 degree ramps will give you "a little more travel in the lever when I'm in the fiction zone"."
Doesn't this mean that the "ratio" at the lever is greater with an 18 degree...so it is a steeper angle because it is moving less distance. Steeper angle =more resistance =harder pull.

The older 21 degree ramps will move the push rod a bit further. They went to the 18 degree to lessen the lever pull, a result is a bit less clutch travel.

[crazy joe]

So a 21* ramp with a good quality cable would work?

[BUBBIE]

 

Man Hoss,

Am I Ever Glad I sold my Peddle Bike... No Proving this From Me...

signed....BUBBIE

[jam65]

Along these lines, what is the ramp angle on Bakers throw out bearing kit?

[FSG]

Well ya all got me confused which set up gives the most throw out movement at the pressure plate 18- 21?

21

21 is more travel, and more force on the clutch lever to the rider.

correct

Along these lines, what is the ramp angle on Bakers throw out bearing kit?

18 ,  but they will machine your 21 deg Inner Ramp to take their larger diameter throw out bearing if you send it to them, as you can buy just the individual bits you need from them not the full kit.


Hoss           you da man 


http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=62664.msg669939#msg669939

http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=38527.msg398545#msg398545

http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=27469.msg279072#msg279072

http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=57546.msg613195#msg613195

[BUBBIE]

I can see IF you get more travel out of a 21, you will Push more Clutch separation,   meaning More Hand Squeeze force... That makes sense... 

signed....BUBBIE

[Hossamania]

Man Hoss,

Am I Ever Glad I sold my Peddle Bike... No Proving this From Me...

signed....BUBBIE

I haven't ridden a bicycle since I got my first car at 16 years old. I kept my bike for ten years, moved it from garage to garage with the all intentions of riding it since it was a high end Kabuki, but, came to my senses and traded it for a quarter ounce.
For the record, I'm left handed, but tend to be one of those dinks that covers his paper so no copying, trying to stay at the top of the bell curve. Man am I glad school is over. I always struggled with the two train equation.
I was hoping my explanation made sense, it took me a while to put it together. I get easily distracted by shiny stuff.

[No Cents]

Man Hoss,

Am I Ever Glad I sold my Peddle Bike... No Proving this From Me...

signed....BUBBIE

I haven't ridden a bicycle since I got my first car at 16 years old. I kept my bike for ten years, moved it from garage to garage with the all intentions of riding it since it was a high end Kabuki, but, came to my senses and traded it for a quarter ounce.
For the record, I'm left handed, but tend to be one of those dinks that covers his paper so no copying, trying to stay at the top of the bell curve. Man am I glad school is over. I always struggled with the two train equation.
I was hoping my explanation made sense, it took me a while to put it together. I get easily distracted by shiny stuff.

      I like your bicycle trade.   

Ray

[Hossamania]

So a 21* ramp with a good quality cable would work?

That's what I have with a Pro Clutch on the RK. It is quite a bit stiffer than the stock clutch on the 2012 Ultra, but I lube it often, and it is not uncomfortable. The '12 is like butter in comparison. I can't imagine needing to make it easier to pull.
I have found that many people complaining of a stiff clutch pull have not lubed their cables and clutch handle on a regular basis, including a friend with a mousetrap on an old Pan. He was shocked when I got done lubing it up for him.
I know the new cables are Teflon lined, but I think the liner eventually wears through, requiring lube or replacement.

[FSG]

Not my pic but my '90 FLHTCU had these 15 Deg Ramps in it, clutch adjustment was a PITA I tell you, until I changed them.

[-deuced-]

I read and reread and reread again this thread. And all the links. And all the links in the links. Man, I had it all wrong. I somehow thought the "degrees" related to the location of the arm on the ramp plate. D'oh! It's the angle of the slope in the divot. The divot is the "ramp". Now I'm picturing the Stooges.
Some of the stuff I came across is old, in 21st century terms, and pictures no longer exist.
Any chance of some more detail on muller modification for throwout bearing, oil slinger modification and also the release plate spacer?

edit: apologise if I'm going off topic.

[FSG]

I've been fixing the links and pix in a lot of threads that still point to the .org site.

Do you see the pix?

[-deuced-]

rofl, I can't remember which link in link I'm talking about. I saw several pics of different ramps, drawings of ball in ramp, etc. I also read any SB or TT referred to. I did try searching. I'll have another look through the thread and try to be more specific. Thanks, mate.

[FSG]

Baker Heavy Duty Throw Out Bearing

http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=61088.msg


Baker throw out bearing, oil slinger removal


http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=100451.msg


Clutch Advice

http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=40291.msg

[-deuced-]

Thank you very much. That's exactly what I was asking about.   

[FSG]

      

[Ohio HD]

Here's some picks of new and used 21° ramps. New of course staying in the package until used. I've been collecting them so I have them going forward.

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[FSG]

[-deuced-]

Huge effort restoring those old pics, FSG. Much appreciated.

[locker55]

After reading this and understanding it, my question...is the muller the way to go to ease the pull?
say you have energy one with extra plate with SE spring and BDL lock up plate.
Is muller the better way to go being the degree and neck is longer?
Or with the muller the separation will not be good at full pull on cable?
I'm just trying to understand what would be best for easier pull?
Thanks for the help.....

[FSG]

and the new Inner (37200261) and Outer (37200262) Ramps that HD have installed in the 2018 Softails

Well I just collected a set from the local Dealer where I ordered them weeks ago.  The guy that took my order was the same guy that handed them over to me this morning.  He was curious as to why I wanted them when I placed the order but had little or no interest as he handed them over.

These new ramps are 19 Degs, easy to see on the back of the Inner Ramp, so why the big secret or lack of information on them in the new 2018 Softail Literature ?

Price in Oz$:   Inner (37200261) AU$7.48   and Outer (37200262)   AU$6.45
Price in US$:   Inner (37200261) US$4.88   and Outer (37200262)   US$4.20












Weight:    New:  167 grams  ;  Old:  188 grams   , the outer is 3 lighter, the inner is 18 lighter

there are minor differences in the dims but they are so minor 20 thou or less that I'll say that they're not intentional

the PCD of the new 19 deg ramp is slightly smaller, while the width of the new 19 deg ramp is wider by around 40 thou and can be seen by eye

the recess for the throwout bearing is the same so it will need to be enlarged to 25mm (.960") for a Baker Heavy Duty Throwout Bearing to be used

backward compatible   YES   if I need to pull the exhaust off the fatty in the next few months I'll throw these in (replace the Mueller Ramps)

[Nastytls]

Are you replacing because it will be lighter pull than the Muller?

Those notches cut in to the back would seem to reduce the strength of the piece, maybe causing it to flex under heavy load from a performance clutch spring.

[1FSTRK]

This material does not flex, it either holds or fractures and breaks.
It is unlikely to have any troubles from the new design.