Build more?

[otter10111]

Here's my build so far on a 2016 Twin Cooled RGU 103;
Harley stage 3 110 kit
4" cylinders
10:2.1 compression
SE 585 cams
SE high capacity tappits
Perfect fit push rods
High performance valve spring
Heavy duty clutch spring
SE billit camplate
SE high volume oil pump
VH power dual header
VH twin slasher slip-ons
VH V02 naked a/c
Power vision tuner

Originally I was going to keep the heads and throttle body stock. I have had it tuned by a local HD dealer they did ok, but I think there's more, it dyno'ed out at 91HP and 111TQ, but before I go and get a second opinion. I want to explore more build options as far throttle body, and heads. So I if just swap out the throttle body to a HPi 55mm with stock injectors, what would I gain? Now let's add heads to the build, this is where I start to fumble, 1) budget 2) now we're really changing things up, increase the compression with a .30 head gasket, changing the valve clearances, intake runner from like 1.66 or to a bigger number I guess, there's so many things, I'm not sure Best way to go on the heads. So here's is the real question I guess is if I replace the TB and not do anything to the heads will the heads severely limit what I have already done? I realize there would be significant gains by doing the heads I think. My plan was to turn this into a performance two up touring bike, if that even exists or is such a thing, and then be a ripper when I ride solo with buddies.

[Coff 06]

Stock heads WILL limit your build.Have your heads done,valve spring,and compression set up for your cam by the porter.It doesn't need to be an all out port job to see an advantage.
Port match your heads to a 1.8 intake HPI 55 or 58 and 5.3 injectors.
That should give you a lot more.          JMHO.               Coff 06

[otter10111]

So if I increase the intake runner from stock 1.660 to 1.71 or 1.73, what should the intake valves be and exhaust?

[TorQuePimp]

Depends on who does the heads....Opinions vary

1.73 runner you can use a 1.9 or 1.94 with a intake seat replacement

1.71 a 1.9 works

Should consider a different cam to go with whatever heads and TB you do

[prodrag1320]

1.900/1.615 valves

[Smarty]

1.900/1.615 valves

Bingo! We have a winner!

[rigidthumper]

HD CNC exchange heads will improve, across the board, fromwhat you currently have. SE 58TB will improve the area under the curve.  I've seen 125-128TQ and 105-110 HP with this setup. You might be spending another couple grand easy.  I'm sure better heads from one of our talented porters would yield bigger #s, and a bigger cam will shift the power to the right from that SE585- choose based on your desire for TQ area. No sense building for 4500-6000RPM when you shift at 3500 80% of the time.

[HD/Wrench]

HD CNC exchange heads will improve, across the board, fromwhat you currently have. SE 58TB will improve the area under the curve.  I've seen 125-128TQ and 105-110 HP with this setup. You might be spending another couple grand easy.  I'm sure better heads from one of our talented porters would yield bigger #s, and a bigger cam will shift the power to the right from that SE585- choose based on your desire for TQ area. No sense building for 4500-6000RPM when you shift at 3500 80% of the time.

winner winner.. I have to say I get at least 15 calls a week on some dyno sheet they heard about or HP numbers they think they want.. Its about the intended use of the final product.. Take a 110 drop on kit for example stock heads stock T/B that makes ok HP but extremely nice tq . That was with a SE kit S&S 585 cam the rest stock parts. Stock pushrods stock injectors I added a SE spring and AIM lock up .. Pipe is a DD fat cat . 

Here is another I just completed last night .. It is not going to set the world on fire HP wise but has one hell of a usable tq curve .

2015 RG SE 110 CYLINDERS 585 SS 10.3 COMP DD FAT CAT by GMR Performance, on Flickr

[sfmichael]

lots of good advice so far...I would dump the SE tappets, cam plate, and oil pump

save the money from the pump and cam plate and put it towards your heads

change out the tappets, just don't use anything Harley when it comes to lifters

if money is a big issue lots of guys on here can do a nice valve job and mild porting for around $400 - that's as cheap as it gets...$600-700 for more serious work

at the very least I'd have a performance valve job done by a known Harley cylinder head specialist

stock oil pump and cam plate will suit you just fine

SE585 cam works well in my opinion, there are others that can surpass it but you're building a touring bike - don't get caught up in the numbers game

[otter10111]

Good advice coming in thanks. The build is already done, exploring the options adding the TB, adding some mild head work. I'm not changing the cams, tappets, pushrods, camplate, oil
Pump. I just want everything to be happy and flow nicely, not really wanting to change valve tolerances or clearances which leads to making sure other stuff stays within there tolerances and clearance. I'm a hobbyist not a mechanic, or an engine builder.

[HD/Wrench]

Ok so you add a larger t/b port the heads re tune with a tiny cam ??  That does not add up.. But its your money spend it how you see fit.  Look at the sheet I posted . You do a simple cam swap re tune you will have less in it then your method .. 

That cam is a bolt in no issues hell you can use stock push rods if you want..

Well god speed .

[otter10111]

This what starting discover about these HD kits or Packages is that they are really pretty limiting. Sound like keeping the heads stock and the throttle body stock would be fine.

[HD/Wrench]

depending on what " a little more " is .

My point is this add the larger t/b call that 400 dollars re tune 450 , head porting ok 400 -600 call it 500  thats 1350.. and what you will gain is a slightly broader tq curve and you will gain HP above 4500 ish . However the cam does not lend itself to making HP it was not designed to do that.. so now we are back to the given cam you have..

[Yo_Boss]

I'm with you OP, torque is where it's at. All these guys want to build a motor for HP at high RPM's..... those motors don't last long.

I run the same build only I'm using rinehart crossbacks. Stock heads and throttle body she pulls like hell at 96 HP / 127 Torque.

[TorQuePimp]

Heads with smaller than 1.9/1.615 very much like the SE CNC heads are more than capable

[otter10111]

How do the Harley SE pro cnc portrd heads compare to having them set out an independent machinist? I know the independent can do more custom sizing.

[Hossamania]

For me, if it a question of whether to buy the SE heads, or send my originals out to a porter to have them set up for a specific cam and build, I send them out.

[Barrett]

There's a set of Zippers muscle 110 heads in the for sale section.

[otter10111]

A local shop said they have a new set for sale at cost $699. I know if I send mine out I have more options as far as intake runner, valve sizes, etc. I have no preference in valve sizing from 1875 or 1900, or intake runner from 1660, 1710, or 1800.

[02roadcling]

A local shop said they have a new set for sale at cost $699. I know if I send mine out I have more options as far as intake runner, valve sizes, etc. I have no preference in valve sizing from 1875 or 1900, or intake runner from 1660, 1710, or 1800.

Rule #1.
After you purchase your Harley you never go back!

   cling

[sfmichael]

Good advice coming in thanks. The build is already done, exploring the options adding the TB, adding some mild head work. I'm not changing the cams, tappets, pushrods, camplate, oil
Pump. I just want everything to be happy and flow nicely, not really wanting to change valve tolerances or clearances which leads to making sure other stuff stays within there tolerances and clearance. I'm a hobbyist not a mechanic, or an engine builder.

like Steve said, your money..your choice, but you left a lot on the table by not changing cams

after exhaust, cams are the single biggest best mechanical engine improvement you can do as far as performance gains per dollar spent (along with a competent dyno tune)

all the '14-'16 touring bikes need IMO is and exhaust system and a good tune, that stock cam in those bikes is decent

BUT...if I were taking it apart to do a bigger bore, I'd have done more than just that

[sfmichael]

A local shop said they have a new set for sale at cost $699. I know if I send mine out I have more options as far as intake runner, valve sizes, etc. I have no preference in valve sizing from 1875 or 1900, or intake runner from 1660, 1710, or 1800.

Rule #1.
After you purchase your Harley you never go back!

   cling

I'm not sure why this sentiment runs through this forum (and others I'm sure) so much? I worked at a dealer for about a year and our shop performed damn good work. Many times the dealer may not get it exactly right but that can be said of ANY and ALL businesses. We did a good job and had very few comebacks. The only place we lacked was in true, hard core dyno tuning. We couldn't devote all day to tuning one bike, it just wasn't economically viable.
You won't convince me that independents are always a better option because we fixed plenty of stuff that other shops (independent and dealer) fkd up.
Enough with the dealer hating....smfh

BTW...where do you think most independent mechanics learn the HD trade? 

[otter10111]

For me dealers do the work and most do a pretty good job they are not engine builders. This is the lesson I'm learning now, i.e. My bolt in HD 110 kit, everything included. Not really the best set up, like my cam se 585 good torque cam, but if I change it out with the tw 999-6a I get a way better build. So I want to move forward with the heads (se pro cnc ported)and throttle body (HPi 55mm with 4.9 injectors). Then change the cam out to the tw999-6a. I Should get big hp and tq.

[Coff 06]

You would have a better set of heads by putting the $700 into a stock set.You spend that on a set of heads that could still use $700 worth of port work.     Coff 06

[sfmichael]

Good advice coming in thanks. The build is already done, exploring the options adding the TB, adding some mild head work. I'm not changing the cams, tappets, pushrods, camplate, oil
Pump. I just want everything to be happy and flow nicely, not really wanting to change valve tolerances or clearances which leads to making sure other stuff stays within there tolerances and clearance. I'm a hobbyist not a mechanic, or an engine builder.

For me dealers do the work and most do a pretty good job they are not engine builders. This is the lesson I'm learning now, i.e. My bolt in HD 110 kit, everything included. Not really the best set up, like my cam se 585 good torque cam, but if I change it out with the tw 999-6a I get a way better build. So I want to move forward with the heads (se pro cnc ported)and throttle body (HPi 55mm with 4.9 injectors). Then change the cam out to the tw999-6a. I Should get big hp and tq.

okay...I'm confused  ...you did the cam or you didn't?

the SE585 cam works fine and if you think changing the cams to the Woods 999 alone is going to make a huge change in horsepower or torque, I believe you will be disappointed

I believe initially you said you were going for a touring build, now it seems you want a hot rod 
You should have bought the same kit but with the SE259 cam instead, that would change the personality of the motor and make it more of a hot rod 

[otter10111]

Yes I have the se 585 cam, but have been told it wouldn't be very advantageous to add the se pro cnc port heads and the HPi 55mm throttle body. So I thought if I changed cam I would get better torque and horse power. My current 91HP and 111 tq seems very weak for my build.

[sfmichael]

Yes I have the se 585 cam, but have been told it wouldn't be very advantageous to add the se pro cnc port heads and the HPi 55mm throttle body. So I thought if I changed cam I would get better torque and horse power. My current 91HP and 111 tq seems very weak for my build.

that is low...probably just needs a better tune - should be making high 90's hp or more and 115+ tq

the heads do help and when spending that much $$ you probably should've jumped in and got the heads & TB too

maybe find a better tuning facility that can bring the most out of your build?   

HPI makes great stuff but the SE58 TB works well and will save you a hundred bucks

[otter10111]

Hope was that I would get 100-105hp and 115-120tq. My first thought is to go get a second opinion on my tune and me have make some tweeks. Your right the SE 58tb would be 100 bucks cheaper. I think I've seen it for right around 350 online and then new injectors maybe another 200.

[sfmichael]

you wouldn't need injectors and the throttle body won't help a lot will do a small amount, enough to justify the relatively low cost in my book

I think your build needs a good / better dyno tune - do you know the cranking compression of your current set-up?