Wheel bearing removal questions

[Xyzzy]

Hello!

I got home from a ride a few days ago and when I was cleaning my bike ('17 SGS) I noticed that there was a huge spray of grease on the front right hub. After cleaning the grease away, it looks like the bearing seal has gone AWOL.

The bike has only 6,800 miles on it but I do not trust a dealer to change the bearing. This is what happened when I had to have a bearing replaced on my '16 RGS: http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=91223

I really doubt that I can just get a new seal, so I suppose I need to replace that bearing.

Some questions:

1 - Since it appears I will be changing bearings a few times over the next 20 years, I want to buy the tool to do it. I've looked at the JIM'S, George's Garage and Heartland Products tools. I'm not so worried about the price of the tool as getting the one that will hold up the best. Suggestions? (I'm not considering the Pit Posse tool because it doesn't have a thrust bearing and the reviews indicate that the build quality is less-than-robust.)

2 - The service manual tells me to replace both bearings but I'm pretty sure even this bearing with the blown seal is fine, so I plan to only replace it due to the seal. I don't think any damage has happened to it (yet) or the other bearing. Is this reasonable thinking? I don't mind buying more bearings but I don't like replacing parts that are new.

3 - My hub is the same style as the hub on the '16 RGS, so the puller will deform the hub unless I have an old-style brake disk to put under it. I don't have an old-style brake disk. Are there any alternatives to the brake disk?

Thanks!

[kd]

Can't you go to your dealer (or another one), relate to them your concerns and experience and ask them to put a more talented tech than their tire change guy on the job? It's not really a rocket engineer type job. The bearings and tool (if you chose to buy it) are expensive. You paid for warranty when you bought that new bike and should get the benefit of it. Take some pics of the condition of the wheel before and after the repair if you need to and demand a new wheel if they damage it.

[FSG]

 

but ................................

the new 9276B Non ABS bearing has metal grease seals on both sides AND only the outer race turns, the seals stay stationary, which is NOT how a bearing should work.

[Ohio HD]

The Heartland tool works very well.

[Xyzzy]

I just found the discount code for the Heartland tool so I will order that one. Thanks!

[motorhogman]

Just my .02...a bearing or seal going out that soon unless You have been riding through streams and rivers submerging your axles should not be happening.

Dealer would be replacing if it was mine with documentation as their reason for cause.  This is NOT normal..

My 01 has almost 99.000  mi with original wheel bearings front and rear.. Name the weather condition and they have been there.. rain water over the foot boards splashing on my chest to 10 degrees in snow.

They still turn free and 0 sign of grease leakage ..

I would be thoroughly disappointed.

While I really understand your lack of confidence in that dealer I would find another..

When I bought my bike new LOL  17 years ago I bought from the guy I did for 2 reasons, #1 service reputation, # 2 best price... He was 75 mi from my house. I would not go any where else to buy even a spark plug. 

I guess part of my rant is your satisfaction with your machine has an awful lot to do with who you buy from and do business with.

[PoorUB]

Just my .02...a bearing or seal going out that soon unless You have been riding through streams and rivers submerging your axles should not be happening.

Dealer would be replacing if it was mine with documentation as their reason for cause.  This is NOT normal..

My 01 has almost 99.000  mi with original wheel bearings front and rear..

I agree the bearing should last longer than 7,000.

Your '01 has different bearings and last longer that the latest HD has to offer. When the MoCo changed Axle size in '09 they came out with a new bearing too. I check them well at each tire change and expect to change them out at roughly 25,000 miles. I changed bearings twice in my 2010 Ultra, 82,000 miles on it when I traded it in. I have a puller and keep bearings on hand! (which reminds me, I need to stock up on ABS bearings now!)

I wonder if a piece of 1/2" poly cutting board with a hole cut slightly larger than the bearing would work as a wheel protector. It might be too slippery, or too thick.

[Moparnut72]

I have read that high power car washes can be bad for wheel bearings forcing water into them past the seals. I use them but do not spray directly on the hubs or switches for that matter. I actually do not put full pressure on anything except for the fenders on my truck.   
kk

[Xyzzy]

A follow-up:

I ordered the Heartland puller. I just pulled the bearing. I put 3 layers of masking tape on each ear of the tool and three layers on the hub. No marks! And the tape process only took maybe 2-3 minutes.

The bearing feels like it might actually be bad and not just have the seal missing. I will report back on that later.

I bought an EBC 6205DDC3G81 from my local bearing distributor. They seemed pretty knowledgeable and the price was reasonable. He told me that EBC bearings are made in the same plant and process as SKF and FAG bearings. Let me know if the EBC bearing (Made in Korea) is a bad idea.

FWIW, I checked the sleeve before I removed the bearing. It had just enough play in it to move it a tiny amount. I am assuming that smushing the bearings together real tight is bad for axial loading. So at least that was fine, right?

[Xyzzy]

The removed bearing feels very notchy. I suppose that could have happened from the pulling process?

I have two '17 Street Glides. The first one I bought has a rubber (?) seal on the bearing. The second one I bought, which is the topic of this thread, has a metal seal. I wonder why there is a difference?

I have attached a picture of the "older" bike. It is really dirty and has 30,500 miles on it so please excuse how filthy it is.

Maybe it is a running change? I bought the first one in the beginning of September and the second one at the end of March.

[Xyzzy]

I'm just documenting my thoughts here in the hope that it helps someone else.

Maybe it will even help me in the future when I forget all of this!

- I froze the new bearing and put grease on it and the wheel race.

- The bearing went in so easily I did not have to use a wrench on the opposite side of the wheel!

- I tightened it a bit too far at first. When I held the wheel using my fingers for an axle, it didn't spin smoothly.

- I pulled the bearing out ever so slightly. (I know! I'm not supposed to do that! But it took very little pressure on the puller. Maybe because the bearing was still frozen?)

- I re-tightened the bearing to the point that the axle sleeve is still loose, up-and-down, but not loose side-to-side.

Question: When you tighten down the axle nut isn't that going to push the bearing in as far as it will go? The inner races of the bearings will contact the sleeve and create a solid "pipe", right?

My (uneducated) theory is it is too easy to over-tighten the bearing in the wheel. The service manual literally gives no guidance except "install opposite side bearing until bearing contacts spacer sleeve".

Final note: I am not a professional mechanic nor even a competent amateur. I enjoy learning things and I really like the idea of being able to take care of myself. I actually had fun doing this! One reason I bought a H-D is so I could more easily do my own work.

Comments and insight are appreciated!

[Karl H.]

The right rear wheel bearing of our '15 Sportster went south at 5000 miles only. First it spewed grease then the damage could be heard and felt. It might have been the same situation in your case.

[attach=0]

Karl

[PoorUB]

When you drive the bearing back in with the puller/installer use the flat sides of the large washers against the bearings , both sides of the wheel and drive in in until the bearing bottoms against the spacer. Some installers have a step so the force against the outer race only and you, more likely than not, drive the bearing in too far. No clue why the washers have the step machined into them.

[Heatnbeat]

I'm with UB, I don't know why there would be a step. The inner and outer face are in the same plane. Tighten with a thick flat "washer" until the inner race stops against the inner tube.

I had MGs when I was younger and their wheel bearings were done the same way. The older ones had tapered bearings, the later had roller bearings. But both were tightened tight up against the inner spacer and there were shims to set the clearance on the tapered ones. My wife had a Nissan Sentra that was the same way in the rear; the bearing nut was tightened to something like 100lb/ft. It's really better mechanical practice than the common old way of tapered bearings on the front spindle that Detroit did.
It kept the inner race from fretting or spinning on the spindle.

[Xyzzy]

I found out that my son took the bad bearing and removed the shields on it to see what it looked like inside.

I have attached a picture of what he found.

It looks pretty rough!

(I think the black parts are what is left of the cage?)

PS - The rust is from him using hot water to get the grease out.

[Heatnbeat]

Oh yeah, you caught that one just in time. Good thing you were paying attention.

[koko3052]

Well good thing that you changed it, altho on a new bike with warranty THEY should have changed it!
That rust is just from hot water??? I have NEVER seen a bearing rust that bad & that quickly.
Where the hell are the rest of the balls?

[les]

You need to get the JIMS tool that is the protective plate for the 14 and up wheels.  Then you can use something like a GG wheel bearing tool.

[les]

Don't forget that the pulley also has bearings, and there is a tool to do those too.

[Xyzzy]

You need to get the JIMS tool that is the protective plate for the 14 and up wheels.  Then you can use something like a GG wheel bearing tool.

Don't forget that the pulley also has bearings, and there is a tool to do those too.

This is the tool I have.

I'm not sure what else I need?

[PoorUB]

Same tool I have. I have used it for pulley bearings.

[les]

To protect 2014 and up hubs, the JIMS 913.  It is used in conjunction with the wheel bearing puller.  The tool for doing the wheel pulley bearings is yet a different tool.

[Xyzzy]

http://www.jimsusa.com/pdf/instruction-sheets/913-IS.pdf

That plate looks pretty nice but I'll stick with my masking tape since it is "free".

One of these days I'll snag an old used rotor to use for a plate.

[Dan89flstc]

That rust is just from hot water??? I have NEVER seen a bearing rust that bad & that quickly. 

Clean all the lube off any ball or roller bearing and get it wet, it will rust while you watch, like a bare cylinder bore does. Lots of iron in those bearings.

[Coyote]

That rust is just from hot water??? I have NEVER seen a bearing rust that bad & that quickly. 

Clean all the lube off any ball or roller bearing and get it wet, it will rust while you watch, like a bare cylinder bore does. Lots of iron in those bearings.

That was the bearing he removed, not a new one. I washed the packing lube from every bearing I put in my motors, dried and lubed them. No rust at all.

[Dan89flstc]

That rust is just from hot water??? I have NEVER seen a bearing rust that bad & that quickly. 

Clean all the lube off any ball or roller bearing and get it wet, it will rust while you watch, like a bare cylinder bore does. Lots of iron in those bearings.

That was the bearing he removed, not a new one. I washed the packing lube from every bearing I put in my motors, dried and lubed them. No rust at all.

It is obvious the pic was of an old failed rusty bearing...

I was explaining to koko3052 how a bearing can rust, such as the case of flushing it with water and leaving it wet...

Any unprotected bearing will rust quickly if it comes in contact with water, in this case it did not matter because it was the old bearing, but it serves as a good example to protect the bearings by keeping them lubed at all times.

[fbn ent]

but ................................

the new 9276B Non ABS bearing has metal grease seals on both sides AND only the outer race turns, the seals stay stationary, which is NOT how a bearing should work.

Really???