Timken Bearing

[les]

Gent thanks for the feed back I should of elaborated

I do use a dummy shaft and have always been on the money with the spacer supplied in the bearing kit from Harley.

I have a bearing supplier that can supply me with Timken bearings ( cup and cone) and was wanting to know the thickness of the spacer in the kit from Harley so then I could buy that spacer and several different size spacers to cover all bases when mocking up on dumby shaft.

cheers

Just recently did my first non-native Timken conversion.  Yes, I've done native Timken replacements before and the spacer in the bearing kit has always been "matched" when measuring on the simulator.  However, during the Timken conversion, the spacer provided in the bearing kit was not even within a country mile of being accurate.  Total "set the flywheel endplay" from scratch...handful of spacers and keep simulating until it comes out right.

[les]

You must tell your supplier to provide the bearing as a complete assembly.  The complete assembly is two cups, two cones one cup spacer and one cone spacer.  The correct Timken part number is LM67048-90026  The assembly is a matched component set up by Timken when they are packaged with a selct fir cone spacer, the cup spacer is same for all assemblies.

if the "cup spacer" is the snap ring that goes in between the races,ive seen different sizes on them,dont EVER just assume you've got a "matched set" that the end play will be correct,especially when use a conversion insert,always check with a dummy shaft

Agreed.  I always use the snap ring that comes with the bearing kit when I do a native Timken replacement.  Using it all in the kit usually ends up being right on the money with the simulator.  Now...how many actually perform the endplay measurement [again] with the real flywheel?

[les]

OK now I have questions. The first time my TC had the conversion I was given the crank end play from the builder. I would hope/TRUST that the new (FTB) crank and Timkin bear assembly was a COMPLETE KIT (not just a new bearing on the NEW crank) as described in this post. Should the end play as installed to the cases be included in the paper work/build sheet?

It would have to be a new kit, because the before Timken crank does not have any Timken bearings.  But what you should look for is the builder giving you two measurements.  The one from the simulator and the final-final endplay measurement with the real flywheel, if the builder wants to be thorough in reporting their work.

[prodrag1320]

You must tell your supplier to provide the bearing as a complete assembly.  The complete assembly is two cups, two cones one cup spacer and one cone spacer.  The correct Timken part number is LM67048-90026  The assembly is a matched component set up by Timken when they are packaged with a selct fir cone spacer, the cup spacer is same for all assemblies.

I do here,but have never found a difference enough to be concerned about.no reason it should be significantly different if your setting up your dummy shaft correctly


if the "cup spacer" is the snap ring that goes in between the races,ive seen different sizes on them,dont EVER just assume you've got a "matched set" that the end play will be correct,especially when use a conversion insert,always check with a dummy shaft

Agreed.  I always use the snap ring that comes with the bearing kit when I do a native Timken replacement.  Using it all in the kit usually ends up being right on the money with the simulator.  Now...how many actually perform the endplay measurement [again] with the real flywheel?

[rbabos]

You must tell your supplier to provide the bearing as a complete assembly.  The complete assembly is two cups, two cones one cup spacer and one cone spacer.  The correct Timken part number is LM67048-90026  The assembly is a matched component set up by Timken when they are packaged with a selct fir cone spacer, the cup spacer is same for all assemblies.

I do here,but have never found a difference enough to be concerned about.no reason it should be significantly different if your setting up your dummy shaft correctly


if the "cup spacer" is the snap ring that goes in between the races,ive seen different sizes on them,dont EVER just assume you've got a "matched set" that the end play will be correct,especially when use a conversion insert,always check with a dummy shaft

Agreed.  I always use the snap ring that comes with the bearing kit when I do a native Timken replacement.  Using it all in the kit usually ends up being right on the money with the simulator. Now...how many actually perform the endplay measurement [again] with the real flywheel?

I did. Actual is slightly tighter then the dummy shaft from the two bearings being pressed. Not a lot but some. Can't quote exact figure since it's been so long now but .0005 rings a bell on a brand new virgin crank that's never has a bearing on it before.
Ron

[les]

You must tell your supplier to provide the bearing as a complete assembly.  The complete assembly is two cups, two cones one cup spacer and one cone spacer.  The correct Timken part number is LM67048-90026  The assembly is a matched component set up by Timken when they are packaged with a selct fir cone spacer, the cup spacer is same for all assemblies.

I do here,but have never found a difference enough to be concerned about.no reason it should be significantly different if your setting up your dummy shaft correctly


if the "cup spacer" is the snap ring that goes in between the races,ive seen different sizes on them,dont EVER just assume you've got a "matched set" that the end play will be correct,especially when use a conversion insert,always check with a dummy shaft

Agreed.  I always use the snap ring that comes with the bearing kit when I do a native Timken replacement.  Using it all in the kit usually ends up being right on the money with the simulator. Now...how many actually perform the endplay measurement [again] with the real flywheel?

I did. Actual is slightly tighter then the dummy shaft from the two bearings being pressed. Not a lot but some. Can't quote exact figure since it's been so long now but .0005 rings a bell on a brand new virgin crank that's never has a bearing on it before.
Ron

What I've seen, going from the [slip fit] simulator to the [hard press] flywheel is .0015" - .002" difference in the endplay.  For example, if adjust endplay until I read .003" on the simulator, I've measured .001" - .0015" endplay on the flywheel.

For me it's been consistent enough that if someone were to ship me their left half casing, a Timken insert kit, and a new Timken bearing kit, I could probably get away with setting the endplay on the simulator at .003" and shipping the casing back (along with the bearings and matched/measured spacer) and they'd most likely come out right on spot in terms of assembling their bottom end.

However, I don't feel totally comfortable until that final-final measurement is confirmed with the actual flywheel.  In other words, I'd rather waste my time doing that final-final measurement.

[rbabos]

You must tell your supplier to provide the bearing as a complete assembly.  The complete assembly is two cups, two cones one cup spacer and one cone spacer.  The correct Timken part number is LM67048-90026  The assembly is a matched component set up by Timken when they are packaged with a selct fir cone spacer, the cup spacer is same for all assemblies.

I do here,but have never found a difference enough to be concerned about.no reason it should be significantly different if your setting up your dummy shaft correctly


if the "cup spacer" is the snap ring that goes in between the races,ive seen different sizes on them,dont EVER just assume you've got a "matched set" that the end play will be correct,especially when use a conversion insert,always check with a dummy shaft

Agreed.  I always use the snap ring that comes with the bearing kit when I do a native Timken replacement.  Using it all in the kit usually ends up being right on the money with the simulator. Now...how many actually perform the endplay measurement [again] with the real flywheel?

I did. Actual is slightly tighter then the dummy shaft from the two bearings being pressed. Not a lot but some. Can't quote exact figure since it's been so long now but .0005 rings a bell on a brand new virgin crank that's never has a bearing on it before.
Ron

What I've seen, going from the [slip fit] simulator to the [hard press] flywheel is .0015" - .002" difference in the endplay.  For example, if adjust endplay until I read .003" on the simulator, I've measured .001" - .0015" endplay on the flywheel.

For me it's been consistent enough that if someone were to ship me their left half casing, a Timken insert kit, and a new Timken bearing kit, I could probably get away with setting the endplay on the simulator at .003" and shipping the casing back (along with the bearings and matched/measured spacer) and they'd most likely come out right on spot in terms of assembling their bottom end.

However, I don't feel totally comfortable until that final-final measurement is confirmed with the actual flywheel.  In other words, I'd rather waste my time doing that final-final measurement.

Could be more then I stated as it's been a while. I stopped pissing around with those things once I went plain bearings.  Main thing is the dummy isn't actual running clearance. Only real install will tell true end play and should be checked, like you mentioned.
Ron

[02FYRFTR]

I use a simulator but when I check end play with simulator I always torque to 50 ft/lbs before checking end play also I always hand tighten first to be sure that the cones are not locked up because the cone spacer is too small.  In forty plus years never a Timken failure caused by assembly.

[prodrag1320]

one thing to take note of,when I press the races in,i made a collar that fits up against race,ive seen motors that when one bearing is pressed or driven in,without supporting the other race,the race being installed can push on the spacer & actually press the opposite race out a bit.also install the inner first,then with the collar install the outer.this is very important (IMO)especially when using a conversion insert,as not supporting the race when installing that outer race can start to press the insert out (your pressing against the collar & not the insert itself)