S&S Cylinder Dowels and O-rings

[Ohio HD]

Also, just FYI, the o-ring is a # 011

0.441" O.D. x 0.301 I.D. x 0.070" thick, about a durometer of 70.

[Ohio HD]

So just a followup on these, with the dowels in the cylinders, the rear dowel extrudes 0.343" and the front 0.345". The head sits on the cylinders, without head gaskets and you can't pull a piece of thin paper out of the head gasket surface, see cloths pin in photo. So they can be used if you can get them short enough for your application. It would be nice if S&S supplied two lengths for the what if, as most heads have been cut at one time or another.

Thanks again to Jim and Ray, I'm sure I would have found out, but would have been pissed at the time I found out.


[attach=0]

[FSG]

What are they and what dia is that anti rotation pin?

[Ohio HD]

Those are stockers, I have some 0.252", 0.254", and 0.256" from the Gage Shop that I need to get out of the shop and take to work to cut to 1.750". Then will fit them.

[FSG]

Those are stockers

-99C  then   

[Ohio HD]

Those are stockers

-99C  then   

They're stockers I converted to solids for mock up and testing. These are the final product.


[attach=0]

[FSG]

better      

[Ohio HD]

Best on the planet, the -B lifters.

[Chippitt68]

Sooooo, does this mean the 117 will be for sale?

[Ohio HD]

I kinda doubt it. This has been such a good motor, it should stay in the family. I have 40k on it, runs really good. Might go in a third bike if I find a bargain with a junky motor.

[HD/Wrench]

I used them in my 124 all S&S they fit fine double or o ring top drain side single o ring bottom drain no issues and my heads have been decked .

[Ohio HD]

Were they S&S heads Steve, maybe they're drilled deeper for the dowel?

[HD/Wrench]

Sorry yes ALL S&S items Not used them one anything else .. But I can tell you I am taking mine back apart as it has a base gasket leak.. I thought I had cometic base gaskets and did not so I uses the paper    Oh well time for more upgrades 

[Ohio HD]

Sorry yes ALL S&S items Not used them one anything else .. But I can tell you I am taking mine back apart as it has a base gasket leak.. I thought I had cometic base gaskets and did not so I uses the paper    Oh well time for more upgrades 

I "think" I have a pair of cometic base gaskets for the S&S style 4.125" bolt pattern, but I would have to look when I get home, and to see what thickness they are. I realize you can get them easy enough, but I won't ever use them, and I'd be happy to send them to you.

Added Later: I just looked, these are 4.125" for Axtell cylinders, so they would be HD Twin Cam bolt pattern. 

[Ohio HD]

What are they and what dia is that anti rotation pin?

Is this better Gary?   

[attach=0]

[FSG]

    very much so   

[Ohio HD]

Sorry yes ALL S&S items Not used them one anything else .. But I can tell you I am taking mine back apart as it has a base gasket leak.. I thought I had cometic base gaskets and did not so I uses the paper    Oh well time for more upgrades 

I "think" I have a pair of cometic base gaskets for the S&S style 4.125" bolt pattern, but I would have to look when I get home, and to see what thickness they are. I realize you can get them easy enough, but I won't ever use them, and I'd be happy to send them to you.

Added Later: I just looked, these are 4.125" for Axtell cylinders, so they would be HD Twin Cam bolt pattern.

Steve, I did find the S&S sidewinder base gaskets, thought I had these somewhere. These are the Cometic 0.020" thick rubber coated steel base gaskets. I'll drop them in the mail this weekend, I'll never use them.


[attach=0]

[attach=1]

[Ohio HD]

   Brian...your 117 using S&S cylinders doesn't have anything between the cylinders and heads beside the factory dowels and the MLS head gaskets.
I built my 124 the same way as I did the 117. I never had a leak on either engine. For the base gaskets I used aviation sealant on both sides of them...with the factory dowels in place in the cases with no O-rings...and I've never had a base gasket weep or seep down there either. I still don't see any gain by using the S&S dowels...but maybe I'm missing something. 

Ray, you can't argue with results I always say. So I took my stubborn German mind and changed it, and am using VersaChem type 3 aviation sealer on the base gaskets.

Thanks for the heads up.   

http://www.itwconsumer.com/versachem-products/product.cfm?id=Gasket%20Sealant%20%233%2C%20Aviation-130

[Ohio HD]

Following up on this old post about the S&S 500-0385 o-ringed dowel pins. I assumed that the length of these were designed for non molested parts, meaning heads that have not been milled, and cylinders that have not been decked.

These are brand new S&S cylinders that have not been decked. The heads are NOS 110+ heads that Larry made into wind tunnels for me. He left the combustion chambers large at my request and only lightly cleaned up the head gasket surface to make the two heads equal at 97cc. Since these are really new, I didn't want to start cutting them up for no reason. I was going to need an 8cc dome on the piston, I'll just use a 14cc dome.

So the fit without the heads and cylinders being cut on is adequate for the dowels. They still won't allow the head to sit flush against the cylinder, the dowel holds the head up and leaves a gap of 0.018". But any head gasket 0.030" and thicker should make it all work. Also keep in mind these are 110+ heads, and HD machines the head gasket surface down by 0.025" where as the stock 110 heads they do not. And in the end, S&S may have designed these for their heads, I don't know if they have a deeper bore for the dowel pin or not.

I'll still surface grind 0.030" from both ends of the dowels so that they in no way are close to causing a bind and the head cracks when you torque it down. All in all, I'm sure they expect an engine builder to check these and make adjustments as needed. You would think they might mention that in the paperwork that comes with them, but they don't.

But in reality you're supposed to check fit up of everything, right?

By the way, I also have Larry's finger prints, and will be selling them to the highest bidder.     



[attach=0]


[attach=1]


[attach=2]

[rigidthumper]

I ran into that recently- just chucked em up in the lathe, had to address both length and OD.

[Ohio HD]

I have a small benchtop lathe I can use now. I didn't have it when I ground the first set I did a few years back. But I'll just take them to work next week and grind them there, it'll only take a few minutes.

OD wise so far I've been ok, just needed to lube them and lightly tap them in with a plastic faced hammer.

[mike jesse]

May I suggest a 1/32x45* chamfer on both ends of the dowels.
The OCD machinist thinking out loud.

[jsachs1]

May I suggest a 1/32x45* chamfer on both ends of the dowels.
The OCD machinist thinking out loud.

John

[Ohio HD]

Ok, we added a chamfer.   



[attach=0,msg1395779]

[Admiral Akbar]

I'm rebuilding a motor right now, all bore 107.  What's the ID of the dowel?  Do you know if the O rings are Viton?