Screw Found in My Oil Pump Today

[StevieRay59]

Piston oil jet screw one of four. This is from my 2017 FLHTK  Limited.  3000 miles on this Replacement Motor.
The first engine failed with 700 miles on it bad oil pump full of debris from factory. So to recap, 4000 total miles
on my bike, 2 engines self destructed. Both motors built b4 Oct 2016. This $30,000 M8 Mistake is Worst Harley
Ever Sold to the public. Should I demand a replacement bike,  or let them put another engine in it?  2 complete
engines failures all ready, 4000 miles on my bike total. Maybe Engine number 3 will be the one. Ha what a F... Joke.
Disappointed doesn't even begin to describe how I feel.

[misfitJason]

Yikes. Full rebuild on Harley's dime?

[N-gin]

 

[FloridaJim5]

Could you elaborate a little more please?  Your bio says you ride a '14 which would be a twin cam.   

[rigidthumper]

Well, that'll screw things up!
Seriously, I'm curious, how did that travel from the flywheel cavity to the cam cavity? There is no direct path I can think of...and the crossover passage is way too small...
Have you torn down the engine to verify, or did somebody leave you with an extra?

[StevieRay59]

I was at Fuel Moto for a cam install yesterday and they found the screw in the oil pump
when they pulled the stock cam out. We had to Stop the cam installation right there load it back on my
truck and I brought back to Westland, Mi . This is the Second Motor in my bike. First one
failed with 700 miles on it back in Sept 2016. Oil pump was full of debris on the original motor. This motor only has 3000 miles on it. Both engines
built B4 Oct 2016. Both engines self destructed from Shoddy Assembly right out of the factory.

[StevieRay59]

Pic of the oil jet retaining screw found in oil pump.

[koko3052]

Hmmm.... to find a screw in the oil pump w/o any prior indication of engine problems would mean that engine stopped exactly the moment that the screw was ingested. What are the odds of that?
Darn good thing that you were going to do the cam change.

[rbabos]

Why does my mind keep thinking AMF?
Ron

[BVHOG]

Hmmm.... to find a screw in the oil pump w/o any prior indication of engine problems would mean that engine stopped exactly the moment that the screw was ingested. What are the odds of that?
Darn good thing that you were going to do the cam change.

Yes, a bit odd indeed

[1FSTRK]

Hmmm.... to find a screw in the oil pump w/o any prior indication of engine problems would mean that engine stopped exactly the moment that the screw was ingested. What are the odds of that?
Darn good thing that you were going to do the cam change.

Not really, the screw was probably beat up in the flywheel compartment and became lodged in the return side pick-up passage. He does not say it made it into the pump gears so it may rode in there for miles and could have for many more.

[StevieRay59]

Metal shavings I found in the oil filter magnet

[rbabos]

Metal shavings I found in the oil filter magnet

So, we talking engine number 3 coming up in less then a year? That blows.
Ron

[markymark]

What kind of response has the dealer given you ??

[StevieRay59]

Dropped it off this afternoon. Waiting on the mothership to respond plus dealership needs to look at it.
Waiting game now. Told my salesman to see about replacement bike. So wait and see how much Harley cares about
their customers. At this point I'm just numb. 4000 mi on bike and 2 engines failed.

[rigidthumper]

When they replaced the first engine, did they replace the oil tank, cooler, and all the oil lines? Screw could have come from there.  Please let us know what they find on tear down- if, indeed, there is a screw missing from one of the squirters, or was this a spare. I think calling the second one "blowed up" may be a bit premature. The bike was still running without issue, correct?  I'm thinking so, because, why take an in warranty, non running bike to FuelMoto for a cam and tune upgrade, right?  There was no evidence of anything wrong? Good oil pressure? You were just looking to improve the performance, right?

[StevieRay59]

Could you elaborate a little more please?  Your bio says you ride a '14 which would be a twin cam.

Yea forgot to update my bio. Should be correct now. 2017 Limited M8

[StevieRay59]

When they replaced the first engine, did they replace the oil tank, cooler, and all the oil lines? Screw could have come from there.  Please let us know what they find on tear down- if, indeed, there is a screw missing from one of the squirters, or was this a spare. I think calling the second one "blowed up" may be a bit premature. The bike was still running without issue, correct?  I'm thinking so, because, why take an in warranty, non running bike to FuelMoto for a cam and tune upgrade, right?  There was no evidence of anything wrong? Good oil pressure? You were just looking to improve the performance, right?

There was no indication of a noise or problem when I loaded up the bike to go to Wi. It was running great. Maybe the screw fell out when they rode it into the shop? Who knows?

[fbn ent]

Did you show the dealer the oil filter? Just wondering how they feel as far as warranty and those....

[rbabos]

Did you show the dealer the oil filter? Just wondering how they feel as far as warranty and those....

Good question. It does not meet OEM spec big time.
Ron

[StevieRay59]

Did you show the dealer the oil filter? Just wondering how they feel as far as warranty and those....

I showed him the pics of the oil filter.

[harleytuner]

I believe HD changed the torque spec on the piston jet screw. Anybody else heard this?

[hogpipes1]

Did you show the dealer the oil filter? Just wondering how they feel as far as warranty and those....

I showed him the pics of the oil filter.

What brand of filter is this?  Looks like the screw is brass? thanks .

[Rockout Rocker Products]

I believe HD changed the torque spec on the piston jet screw. Anybody else heard this?

Saw that on HDF in a list of things the HD tech is supposed to check now.

[FSG]

I believe HD changed the torque spec on the piston jet screw. Anybody else heard this?

The M8 uses the same screw (68042-99 , 8-32 X 3/8 TORX) as the TC, the Torque Spec for the screw in a TC is 25-35 in-lbs and Loctite 222, what are they doing in a M8, I see no reason why it'd be much different.

[harleytuner]

I believe HD changed the torque spec on the piston jet screw. Anybody else heard this?

The M8 uses the same screw (68042-99 , 8-32 X 3/8 TORX) as the TC, the Torque Spec for the screw in a TC is 25-35 in-lbs and Loctite 222, what are they doing in a M8, I see no reason why it'd be much different.

I'm hearing they had then set at the factory torqued to 20" lbs.   They are now wanting them re-torqued to 30.  I don't know this for fact but its I'm hearing. If it's true and these screws are in fact coming loose out could possibly lead up to the sumping issue were hearing about

[FSG]

If it's true and these screws are in fact coming loose out could possibly lead up to the sumping issue were hearing about

   just look at the base of the oiler, the TC as round and used an o-ring, the M8 is a long skinny rectangle and uses a gasket, a loose screw either end will leak a lot, perhaps the saved on the loctite

the M8 oiler base could have been done a whole lot better

[harleytuner]

If it's true and these screws are in fact coming loose out could possibly lead up to the sumping issue were hearing about

   just look at the base of the oiler, the TC as round and used an o-ring, the M8 is a long skinny rectangle and uses a gasket, a loose screw either end will leak a lot, perhaps the saved on the loctite

the M8 oiler base could have been done a whole lot better

That's how I see it also.  Seams like they dumbed up s good proven design.  Even if this isn't the issue I don't get why they wouldn't of stayed worry an o ring type seal

[rbabos]

Who the hell would be dumb enough to use a gasket sealing design rather then O-ring there?  It just asks for trouble. Now let's all add some torque and distort the base of the squirt base. That'll learn it.
Ron

[StevieRay59]

What kind of response has the dealer given you ??

They were told by corporate to bore scope cylinders and send pics to them today. Dealership called today offering a loaner so I'm headed to the shop now.

[ultraswede]

If this cause sumping,  that  oil causing sumping isnt going where its designen to go, cooling pistons. 
This may be the the reason for some cooked topp ends? 

[K4FXD]

Any updates?

Or is this anther denied warranty deal?

[StevieRay59]

New Motor coming this week. Take your time corporate my summer vacation is over this Friday. Been in shop since June 27.
Having them install the torque cam B4 I pick it up. God knows how much longer I have to wait on this $30,000 mistake?   

[Paniolo]

Maybe I missed it, but did they ever determine where the part came from, or how it got into the pump?

[Good_Apollo]

New Motor coming this week. Take your time corporate my summer vacation is over this Friday. Been in shop since June 27.
Having them install the torque cam B4 I pick it up. God knows how much longer I have to wait on this $30,000 mistake?

As crappy as the situation is and all the waiting, it does seem like the dealer is working with you. Which dealership?

[StevieRay59]

New Motor coming this week. Take your time corporate my summer vacation is over this Friday. Been in shop since June 27.
Having them install the torque cam B4 I pick it up. God knows how much longer I have to wait on this $30,000 mistake?

As crappy as the situation is and all the waiting, it does seem like the dealer is working with you. Which dealership?

Dealership has been great, but they have to wait on Harley to ship a motor. They said the motor will arrive Thur. Who knows maybe get it back this weekend. I'm having the torque cam installed B4 I pick it up. Put on the street cannons, and the K&N Filter and a tune. Call me when it's done ! Motor City Harley, great people in Farmington Hills, Mi.

[Good_Apollo]

My brother works there, Fat Bob in sales

[StevieRay59]

My brother works there, Fat Bob in sales

Bought my 2014 Limited from Big Bob, great guy. I bought this 2017 Limited from James. I think his office is next to Bob's?

[lucasg]

First off, sorry to hear about all your problems.  I don't think I could've been as patient as you.  A shame that a company that's been around this long can't get it right..... And then try to cover up known issues....
Hope it all works out for bud...

[Heatwave3]

New Motor coming this week. Take your time corporate my summer vacation is over this Friday. Been in shop since June 27.
Having them install the torque cam B4 I pick it up. God knows how much longer I have to wait on this $30,000 mistake?

As crappy as the situation is and all the waiting, it does seem like the dealer is working with you. Which dealership?

Dealership has been great, but they have to wait on Harley to ship a motor. They said the motor will arrive Thur. Who knows maybe get it back this weekend. I'm having the torque cam installed B4 I pick it up. Put on the street cannons, and the K&N Filter and a tune. Call me when it's done ! Motor City Harley, great people in Farmington Hills, Mi.

I had the same issue. Low power, overheating, 4800 miles on '17 CVO limited. Engine broken down. trq on oil jet screws below 20in-lbs. Crank and rod rotation was stiff. HD authorized new engine. Since I had stage 4 kit already, they authorized an entirely new Stage 4 kit and the new design oil pump (being installed today). I road the bike with the stock engine for a week and it felt terrific. Based on how the new engine feels, I believe I've had sumping issues since I took delivery last Fall, even though I never had an engine light and the Oil read out said "OK".

[StevieRay59]

Bike should be ready Monday. Third time's a charm I hope. The torque cam should be fun after break in is done. Maybe I will quit looking at the web sites of other brands and finally be
able to trust this bike like my other Harleys I've had. They never let me down like this one has.

[VDeuce]

Bike should be ready Monday. Third time's a charm I hope. The torque cam should be fun after break in is done. Maybe I will quit looking at the web sites of other brands and finally be
able to trust this bike like my other Harleys I've had. They never let me down like this one has.

Hope it works out for you. Keep an eye on transmission fluid level; some reports of tranny lube migrating into primary and HD is aware, despite what the dealers might otherwise say. Tranny goes empty overfilling primary.

[StevieRay59]

Bike should be ready Monday. Third time's a charm I hope. The torque cam should be fun after break in is done. Maybe I will quit looking at the web sites of other brands and finally be
able to trust this bike like my other Harleys I've had. They never let me down like this one has.

Hope it works out for you. Keep an eye on transmission fluid level; some reports of tranny lube migrating into primary and HD is aware, despite what the dealers might otherwise say. Tranny goes empty overfilling primary.

I've been watching for that prob. too. I have had to add a little bit maybe 2oz before my last 3 hole oil change. Will keep checking after every ride till I know how much, or if it's transferring. For now I'm just trying to get an M8 motor to quit destroying itself every month or two.

[Fugawee]

StevieRay, Man o' Man do I give You credit for Your patience. I'm not so sure how I would be handling all of this. I'm not trying to put any more fuel on the ol' fire, but I would always have some sort of crazy thought in My mind every time I was on the Bike about the reliability. I don't think I would be enjoying Myself on it. Again...that's Me. I don't mean to be pis$ing You off, or upsetting You more than You probably already are. At least You say that the HD Dealer is being decent about it. That's a Plus. Best of Luck to You... I hope that it ALL works out for the BEST. Take Care.