HarleyTechTalk

Quote from: Pynzo on February 04, 2009, 03:45:33 AM
... Anyone ever notice that Col. Klink on Hogan's Heroes rides around in a black Hydraglide sidecar bike?

Oh oh... now I'm gonna be watching Hogan's Heroes whenever I run across it on the tube.   

The model designation for 1949 springer Panheads was discussed some time ago on HTT but certain things were not resolved. On page 584 of Bruce Palmer's book, when talking about serial numbers, Palmer states: 'However, the P in the special Springer Big Twin models does appear but in an unorthodox manner.' That is an ambiguous description to say the least.

The partial picture below is from page 176 of Classic Harley Big Twins by Field and Murphy. Field mentions a P only. He also says the P is difficult to see in the photo. On page 173 he also mentions a P only. 

I have seen the bike in Hogan's Heroes. Apparently it was way ahead of its time, given that the war was not over.       Eric

Does he say anything about Traffic Combination VINs? I asked an old dealership owner about the SP and he remembered servicing some Police machines with that in the number, as well as '53 to '56 with the T.C. having some kinda extra letter. I think he said they had a the letter "E" in them.
I've looked in my '49 part book and it lists a number for a Hydraglide frontend for sidecar models 45506-49. Solo model fork listed as 45505-49. The only other part listing change is in the springs, 46051-49 sidecar, and 46052-49 solo. It also has a listing for headbearing spacer 46470-49 used on sidecar bikes. Did this part book come out before the changeover to spring forks? Issue date looks like May 1949.

Pynzo, my copy of Palmer's book is apparently the third printing and the Traffic Combination motor is listed in the book under First Year of Features for 1953. However, it isn't listed under Last Year of Features for 1956, although it should be. The list on page 4 of Palmer's book includes the following: 'Model FLE 1955-1965 [sic] special cam police 74 OHV'

Palmer states that the letter designation will be stamped in the serial number. I have several examples of this occurring for 1953-1956 and the E in all of them appears as shown in the 1954 partial serial below. Obviously the start year of 1955 in Palmer's page 4 list is incorrect along with the end year of 1965. And both those errors are repeated in a second and slightly different list on the book's back cover. There are also several other problems with the serial number info supplied in chapter 1 and some info that should have been included does not appear.

Field mentions the FLE being first introduced for 1953 and continuing through 1956.

I have an unrelated example of a special Small Twin with SP in the serial number although I can't confirm its authenticity. But I don't recall hearing about any police bike serial numbers bearing those two letters.

On page 5 Palmer mentions an S to denote sidecar use along with sidecar gearing and says he has been told of two 1936-1937 examples where an S appeared in the motor's serial number although he hasn't seen them.

One of my catalogs has all that info you mentioned and the issue date appears to be May 4, 1949. But I haven't got an answer regarding the catalog coming out before the changeover.     Eric

Thanks- I was told my my old timer friend that Shriners and other close order drill riders preferred the Traffic Combo bikes-74" motor with 61" cam and carb, for slow speed manuevering in parades. Seems you could let the clutch out without lunging with this setup.

Speeding Big Twin,

Is there much of an interest in antique Harleys in Australia?

Pynzo, that makes sense about the parades. When referring to the E-series being discontinued, Greg Field states in part: 'But the 61 had qualities that endeared it to police departments and commercial users. Its smaller carb and milder cam shaft made it ideal for escort work and use in heavy traffic. To compensate these users for the loss of their beloved 61, H-D introduced a special FLE "Traffic Combination" version of the 74 ...'

The September 1953 issue of The Enthusiast magazine mentions the traffic combination motors for 1954, stating in part: 'Excellent acceleration and low speed performance is obtained. This combination is popular for city police use.'

Field states that although the traffic combo had the 61 cam for 1953-1956 it only had the 61 carb for 1953-1954. He says that it had the 74 carb for 1955-1956. Palmer appears to partly concur because his book shows that for 1953-1954 the traffic combo had a special cam and carb. For 1955-1956 he mentions the special cam but not the carb. However, Palmer makes no mention of the 61 carb for the FLE under Last Year of Features for 1954. And neither does he mention the 74 carb for the FLE under First Year of Features for 1955.     Eric

Pzokes, good question. Two of my mates are members of the Vintage Motor Cycle Club here in West Aust and they both own early Harleys but I don't know how many other members have early H-Ds. Each year the Vintage Club hosts a swap meet which I attend and there is always a display of some members' bikes but I didn't get around to checking them out last year. I didn't see many Harleys on show there in years gone by.

Another local club I know of catered only for early American bikes. I knew a couple of members but I haven't seen them for ages. There were several Flathead Harleys involved and one guy owned a Knucklehead as well as a swingarm Panhead. The total amount of Knuckles I've come across in WA is about seven but the Panhead amount would probably be triple that.

I have a few mates with alternator Shovelheads here on the left coast and one with a 1967 model. I couldn't hazard a guess on how many Shovels there are in other states but a couple of my mates on the far north-east coast have them. A few of the local guys had Sportsters in the 1970s and 1980s but I hardly ever see an Ironhead these days. I spotted a 1957 Sportster in the paper a while back and was going to buy it just because it was a first year model but I was the second caller and I missed out.

On the east coast there is an annual event called The Great Race and all the bikes involved are either Indians or early Harleys. It's a time and reliability trial and attracts a lot of participants, including international riders. One of the organisers runs a dealership called Harley City and there are several early H-Ds on display in the shop museum. Two other east coast businesses are HD Development and Pacific H-D and both have been catering for early Harleys for many years. Richardson's in Tasmania also carries some early parts and in New South Wales there's a place called Yesteryear Motorcycles which specialises in 45" Flathead Harleys.

As far as I know there are still at least two big swap meets held in the east each year but we don't have anything that size in the west. So there is some interest in antique Harleys but I don't see that many of them on my side of the country.     Eric

Speeding Big Twin- Have you had any dealings with Pacific HD in West Gosford? I've been checking their website for NOS parts and it seems like they had a good amount of early parts I needed, Seems like a great shop to poke around in.

Not only was there a traffic combination bike, some of the big US cities wrote their bid requests for new motorcycles to favor what they thought were better features on Indians.  They would state that the motorcycles would have left side throttles, right side tank shifters, and three speed transmissions.  The three speed transmission was considered better in traffic, and the cops thought that they could shoot with their right hand while keeping their left hand on the throttle.  New York City was so obsessed with Indians that Indian went back into Chief production in 1953, building bikes with spare parts for their winning NYC bid.  Carryovers from this was Chicago's Harley three wheelers with right side tank shifts, and left side throttles into the 1960's.

Pynzo, I've only bought parts from Pacific H-D in Mt Wilson and it's a while ago. I can't remember what I got so it probably wasn't major stuff and I've also bought some small bits and pieces from HD Development over the years. I got a couple of used genuine H-D ribbed tool boxes from Yesteryear Motorcycles that I'm using on my Pan and my Evo and I bought two genuine used Panhead cylinders from Richardson's a couple of years ago. No complaints about any items so far.     Eric

Speeding Big Twin- Thanks for the info!

Continuing from my comments at reply #26 about the letter P, one month later I ran across the serial number below but never got around to posting. Is the P authentic? I don't know. Obviously it fits Palmer's description when he states: 'However, the P in the special Springer Big Twin models does appear but in an unorthodox manner.'

Greg Field gives a better description and it also fits: '... a letter "P" is stamped lightly at the end of the serial number string in a larger letter size ...'

I've blacked out three of the characters for obvious reasons but they, along with the first four characters and the eighth one, are all usual styles for a 1949 FL. Other photos of the crankcase showed: provision for top end oil return consistent with early Panheads; the correct casting number of 112-481; and a casting date code of L 8. The belly number also appeared authentic and although it began with 2 instead of 1, we have seen that before on 1949 FL cases and they appear authentic.

If anyone can confirm the P in the photo to be authentic then please do so. And if possible, supporting evidence would also be appreciated.     Eric

Quote from: Little Al on December 05, 2008, 06:53:50 AM
Craig,
not that I would have doubted you anyway, but I took a page from your book (pun intended, lol) and read the first 2 chapters from Palmer's last night, just sat back and read it like a novel. Definitely the most fascinating read I've had in a long time!
Anyway, of course your correct so I'll be looking for a glide front end.

I gotta start raising some serious money now too, I better get the "leftover" stuff from my bike on ebay. I have the '71 frame, wideglide front end, and quite a few misc non-original or wrong year parts laying around my spare bedroom (aka parts warehouse)

Little Al




Actually the Springer fork was standard on sidecar equipted machines in 1949. It was not an option.

Quote from: Little Al on December 07, 2008, 06:14:33 PM
Chris,

Mutt or not I beleive I'll be happy. I know some of you guys are purest's, I'm not, I just want a '54 that is reasonably accurate in looks and function.


There is nothing wrong with a Mutt. I have several of them. I am building a Knucklehead Mutt for muself now.