OK Shovels,
On a 1980 FLH shovel that has sat in a garage 15 years or more but is in original paint unmolested condition do I chance starting it up after changing all the fluids, carb clean. new battery, fresh gas? Or will I need to pull motor and inspect. Old oil turning to acid ruining the crank cam bearings, races, etc.? I don't need to cut corners as it will be a project.
It's a choice as to pull it all apart or not. Before I did anything I'd change oils and start it. See what's what. If the bike wasn't exposed to heavy condensation during storage it may be fine internally.
But if it's a project, take it all apart and see what you have.
Ohio, thank you, this is my first barn find. At my age 65 I just want more fun. Will post up some pics when I get it home. Hoping after a couple of fresh oil changes it won't grenade on me.
Changing oils prior to first start is not enough. The oil tank must be flushed and clean out. So should all of the oil lines. Some very light oil should be put into each of the cylinders through the spark plug holes. I am talking about a couple cups of oil in each hole. Wait a couple weeks for the oil to seep past the rings and lube thee cylinders, pistons and rings. You could even rotate the engine until one of the pistons is at the bottom and then fill that hole with oil. When it drains past the rings, do the other cylinder the same way.
Turboprop, would Marvey Mystery work as a Light oil or something better sold by the quart? And thank u.
Was the garage it sat in heated with any climate control? If it was anywhere in the north where the temp shifts from warm to freeing there will be condensation and over 15 years of sitting without at least cranking it over you can count on the rollers marking the crank pin and mains. That is from experience not guessing. The 80 has Timkin left side bearings. A way to get an idea is to pull the compensator and slip the outer Timkin cone (roller) out and see what the cup (race) and rollers look like. That won't mean the crank pin is OK but it will give you a hint at possible damage.
If the rings have been sitting in the same place all that tine under non favorable climate the condensation will effect the rings, piston ring grooves and cylinders. If you have or can get an endoscope you can take the pistons to BDC and scan them for marks. You wont see the rings but marked cylinder walls ups the possibility of mung in the rings and grooves.
IMO turboprop has given some good advice if you are prepared to give it a shot starting it. You notice his suggestion starts with a capitol P for Patience. FLHS90's question about Marvel mystery oil is a good one and IMO a good suggestion too. If after a while you can crank it with MMO in the oil tank and let it sit the MMO will feed to the bottom end bearings and hopefully be beneficial there too.
If this bike is as minty as you say it will be well worth it to take the time to do do it the best way possible before hitting it with fuel and spark. You'll have lots of little things to do in the mean time anyway.
Quote from: flhs90 on May 07, 2022, 04:41:58 PMTurboprop, would Marvey Mystery work as a Light oil or something better sold by the quart? And thank u.
Lots of opinions and debates on this as it relates to oil. I would use MMO, but would shut it down once the heavy smoking stopped to drain the oil again. Contrary to what most peaple have read online and continue t repeat, I would use synthetic oil for the first couple of oil changes as its high level of detergent will be critical to clearing the various internal passages and just cleaning things up in general. You can fix the weak seals and gadgets as they identify themselves.
Quote from: turboprop on May 08, 2022, 12:55:09 PMQuote from: flhs90 on May 07, 2022, 04:41:58 PMTurboprop, would Marvey Mystery work as a Light oil or something better sold by the quart? And thank u.
Lots of opinions and debates on this as it relates to oil. I would use MMO, but would shut it down once the heavy smoking stopped to drain the oil again. Contrary to what most peaple have read online and continue t repeat, I would use synthetic oil for the first couple of oil changes as its high level of detergent will be critical to clearing the various internal passages and just cleaning things up in general. You can fix the weak seals and gadgets as they identify themselves.
More good advice from turboprop. One other good property of a good synthetic oil is the way it migrates toward heat and not away from it like dino oil does. MMO will work well in this type of running at breaking down tar type deposits. Warm it up and let it sit. Repeat a few times and rinse with fresh oil and MMO supplement for a repeat performance.
OK after fearing the worst some communication with the owner/seller the bike has not been sitting without being started. Last started 2 years ago.
Stored inside, sheetrocked and insulated garage. He rode it to some shows here and there. Your tech tips in resurrecting this FLH are very much appreciated. Thanks.
:wwp:
Quote from: flhs90 on May 09, 2022, 01:22:29 PMOK after fearing the worst some communication with the owner/seller the bike has not been sitting without being started. Last started 2 years ago.
Stored inside, sheetrocked and insulated garage. He rode it to some shows here and there. Your tech tips in resurrecting this FLH are very much appreciated. Thanks.
That's VERY good news. Not saying there won't be some natural old age issues like hardened seals etc. but a much better outlook with that little rid bit. If the price isn't insane and it was me, I'd slip the guy at least a down payment and a handshake before the word gats out and a bidding war starts. Where did you say you found it? :smiled:
as it was running 2 yrs ago id drain and change oil get it going give it a run then change the oil again this time with new filter.after 2 yrs the oil has most likely sumped. if theres gas in the tanks it will need changing and the carb jets will be blocked unless the carb was drained before storage. make sure brakes are working
Make sure the clutch is releasing before you stomp it into gear or at least have it pointed in a safe direction when you do. I learned this the hard way.
The title had 2 digits in production run numbers reversed since 1980.
We had to file Vin Correction Form.
Needed police to confirm error and submit. Title now has sequence correct.
It took a lot of patience but worth the wait. Thank you Hoss.
That is sweet machine. Congratulations!
A big thank you to you Shovelheads. Better pics when I get home.
must have been covered up while in storage .looks great. what did it cost ?
Would u think $5K a fair price?
Wow. If it is as good as it looks in the pics, a VERY good price.
-JW
Quote from: flhs90 on May 17, 2022, 05:18:45 PMWould u think $5K a fair price?
absolute bargain.especially here in australia
Shovels, just a part of HD I wanted to learn more about and blue loctite of course. Planning on using a Deka Sealed battery if anyone has suggestion let me know, flush and clean oil tank, let engine puke rhe crankcase oil, soak light oil in spark plug holes, new filter and s what gives. All comments and tech help terrific. Thank all.
Quote from: flhs90 on May 17, 2022, 05:18:45 PMWould u think $5K a fair price?
More than fair. :up:
I bought a leftover new 1980 FLH in the Late Spring of 1981. It was Cream Color with a Brown Saddle. It cost Me $3800.00 at the time. I didn't eat for weeks after that. Had money for gas though.
Quote from: Fugawee on May 19, 2022, 10:35:21 AMI bought a leftover new 1980 FLH in the Late Spring of 1981. It was Cream Color with a Brown Saddle. It cost Me $3800.00 at the time. I didn't eat for weeks after that. Had money for gas though.
Fugawee,
Great info. Hope you put some smiles on your face with that one. I looked fo a long time to find one in this condition. Look forward to waking it up.
Yes, I sure did put some smiles on My face with that Bike. I bought that FLH when I was kicking around Washington State. Did a lot of travelling on it. I came back East and sold it in 1994 to buy a 94' FLHTC. Should have kept the 80'. That Bike was good to Me. Live and learn. Good Luck with Yours. :up:
Thank you all. I do not do crosswords
so I picked a shovel to learn about.
Put 2 tablespoons of Marvel in each hole with rear tire off ground I have it in neutral but can not shift into 4th to turn engine over. At swap meet yesterday a kind young Shovel mechanic suggested I use big washer and pull pressure plate to clean disks and reassemble. Will pull primary and see what gives. Good time to grab a new gasket set. Any suggestions all?
Appreciate any help.
You don't need a clutch to shift it. If you take it apart you'll have to reassemble it to rotate the engine.
Rock the rear wheel back and forth and pull up on the shifter lever. It'll shift.
Update, no hurry here as advised. With help from my wife she shifted while I rotated tire, plan worked after a bit, it is now in 4th and slowly it turns by hand with tire and Marvel.
Two table spoons is not enough to raise the oil level to cover the entire piston. I have no idea of what the measurement is, but if you raise a cylinder to TDC and then fill it with oil up t the spark plug hole it will be enough. You cant really have too much and it is all going to seep past the rings anyways. In this case more is better.
As for the transmission and primary drive, consider draining whatever is in there now and filling with ATF. It will act sort of like penetrating oil and get into every little crevice and will also clean out some of the crud. Will also help break free those clutch plates. Drain the primary case before firing the engine but leave the ATF in the trans for the first few rides.
Thanks Turboprop, going back out to add more of the Marvel.
Enjoying this cleaning up and prep to run, being patient. S and S E shorty.
Removed seat took out oil filter still some oil in tank. Drained tank, will pull it now that seat out of way. Tour pack still not figured out as it has a quick release set up AFAIK.
Appreciate all the help.
Dave
Quote from: flhs90 on May 23, 2022, 07:00:41 PMThanks Turboprop, going back out to add more of the Marvel.
Dave, that's what I meant when I said when you turn it over with the plugs out and if oil comes out of the plug hole, that's enough. Then let it sit with the occasional rotation over a few days while you are doing the other things like the fuel tank. The up and down of the piston will exercise the rings in the ring grooves and clean everywhere.
When you get the oil tank clean and installed, add a couple of quarts of lighter oil with a half quart of Marvel for that first start up. Shell Rotella T 15-40 or 10-30 is a good choice due to the high zinc additive. If you can, open the old filter and check to see what it has been catching in the pleats. With a new filter. start it and bring it up to temperature at a slightly elevated idle and let it sit for a bit then repeat over the next couple of days or so. This running the engine stuff will treat the internal oiling system, crank pins, oil pump, lifters etc. and run it all through the new filter. One caution, this is enough oil for the cycles I describe but not advisable for any prolonged rides. Add oil to do that. When you are ready to ride it, do a full service with the oil you intend to use and a new filter. Cut open the last filter and inspect it for debris.
If you have put fresh fuel into a clean tank with a marine type fuel conditioner to eat away any corn varnish it will also move fresh treated fuel through the jets and pump etc..
:chop: Shovelers, with help from neighbor the vintage FLH is on the lift to take it easier on my back of 66 years. Amazing to me is how similar it is 2 a 1990 FLHS evo big twin that was mty first hog. U folks are some of the best resources to provide the tech help as I restore this bike that has not been molested. Well if S and S shorty E is molestation then I can handle that. What was the scoop on the original card as I have that as well as 2 boxes of extra shovel porn. :baby:
Original stamped AMF Harley Davidson Carb, made in Japan. How did the bikes run with these?
Actually, in my experience they weren't too bad.
OK good 2 know Kirk. If Shorty E has issues will clean and give it a go.
Shovelhead has stick AMF cam per original owner.
Thank you.
I had a ton of gas on my passenger's right leg when I first got my 76 (in 94). I blamed it on he Keihin carb but in the end it was poor exhaust choices causing it.
Over the years I've had two E carbs and two CVs on that bike. I think the CV is the best all around carb for shovels but I still have that K9 in the basement.... somewhere.
The one time my stock clutch plates froze up over a winter the solution was to get it out on the road and bang a few gears. Of course taking off on wet grass without a clutch was interesting. LOL.
Insulated hot jumper lead from any metal with thick piece of folded foam.
Great news she spins freely gave the thin Marvel 4 days to lube. Have a puke pan under breather. Pullimg tanks, dash and carb to clean. New Gates fuel line and Dot 5 for brake components.
Flushing with alcohol. Not the drinking kind. Best 2 all helping wake this toy up. Thanks to all. :baby:
Added approx. one qt. ATF in trans. To clean and lube. Clutch plates still sticky but can shift from 1st to neutral and back. With helper shifting and me turning rear tire back and 4th it shifts all gears. Having fun.
Quote from: flhs90 on May 28, 2022, 01:56:45 PMInsulated hot jumper lead from any metal with thick piece of folded foam.
Great news she spins freely gave the thin Marvel 4 days to lube. Have a puke pan under breather. Pullimg tanks, dash and carb to clean. New Gates fuel line and Dot 5 for brake components.
Flushing with alcohol. Not the drinking kind. Best 2 all helping wake this toy up. Thanks to all. :baby:
Be careful what type of alcohol or methyl hydrate you use for flushing. If you are flushing anything with rubber components including many types of hose it can soften / swell the rubber making it sticky and deformed. It's probably safer to use fresh whatever was last there.
I wouldn't use alcohol either for this.
OK glad KD and Coyote had the sense to chime in. Shop manual was delayed but should b here Monday :gob:
Also, if those are original brake lines (more than likely), they are over 40 years old, may be due for replacement. And by "may be due", I mean probably should be on the list.
OK morning update to my support group.
Lucky 4 me 2nd check ball in carb cleaner basket. Heard one item drop but not 2. Crawled around garage shop. Nada. Looked in basket& back to golden.
Washed bags and tour pack. Mapping wires 2 dash and then speedo off. Ign. SW, & Fat bobs to drain upside. Have diesel to clean oil bag. Lots 2 do taking one system at a time when stuck move to next system
Will use jumpers and electric starter 2 spin the Marvel around. WIting to find out how much ATF to put in primary 4 cleaning then drain it back out.
Patience is on my side. Carb was green gum ethanol flavor
Lol.
Thanks all
.
My grand daughter and gramps my mug.
No Stanger to u now.
Is that the Grand-daughter that will be the Proud Owner of a 1980 FLH one day? :up:
The assets flow downhill not uphill, Super e all torn down. Soaking.
Draining oil tank now and have lots of diesel to flush. Lots of fun prep.
Patience was the advice from the get go.
Dot 5 from the Factory. Yay.
No mixing of types. Thanks all.
Amazing what a set of readers can do.
Update. Diesel. Old clean white t shirt, wooden dowel. Tank looks excellent. Drained primary, oil looked great, added ATF up to clutch plates to soak.Pulled speedo had tape below speed nut to keep from running down the cable to no man's land.Carb almost ready to go back together. Thank u all.
I feel like a Shovel wrench apprentice.
FLHS1990, Cheers. :chop:
Hoss wanted a few pics. :wwp:
Actually hope this prep helps someone else down the road. It does require patience.
It wasn't that clean from the factory!
I would have been riding it long ago... :bike:
Mixing up the flushing oil cocktail since this is what I have. It is going 2 be dumped with zero miles.
Old hog needs a good drink. :beer:
What is on hand. No laughing.
No worries 4 qts. of the Moco.
While you have the derby cover off, place the transmission in neutral, pull the clutch in then strap it tight to the bars. Next with a gloved hand grasp the pressure plate hat and see if it will spin freely. That will tell you if the plates are free or stuck. If they are free you can put it in gear and with the rear wheel off the ground or table and while holding the rear wheel with the brake crank the engine on the starter. The engine should turn over effortlessly.
Tanks off. Now to clean them.
Not sure if anyone has seen the black painted coal shovel rocker covers. Sides aluminum. Mystery.
AMF Moco, or Indy back in the day?
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Um....I can't see what you are talking about. Rocker covers are polished aluminum.
I think he means the tappet blocks.
Tappet blocks r black like cylinders but the top of the rocket covers/boxes coal black paint by somebody.
I think it looks like I will be using the large washer trick 2 keep the clutch plate springs compressed and pull the pressure plate. Carefully remove steels and fiber disks and clean with cleaner. Reassemble and adjust. Back to tanks and carb r and r. Lots to learn. :hug
Update t o above, think the atf to bottom of basket lubed or cleaned disks not bike is in neutral and can spin disks freely. Hooking jumper and switch back to spin motor as cocktail in oil tank.
If you pull the discs, get a 12" ish square sheet of glass plate and tape a sheet of 400 grit to it. Do figure 8's with the fibers not so much to remove material but to break any glaze (shiny spots) that they may have. Use some light varsol or thinner to wet sand and change the paper if it stops working well. Rinse well with thinners and let them dry. Lube lightly with some atf and reinstall.
Things r looking up. Motor spins freely now that clutch is lubed with ATF. Patience is on my side. :up:
Quote from: kd on May 30, 2022, 05:52:02 PMIf you pull the discs, get a 12" ish square sheet of glass plate and tape a sheet of 400 grit to it. Do figure 8's with the fibers not so much to remove material but to break any glaze (shiny spots) that they may have. Use some light varsol or thinner to wet sand and change the paper if it stops working well. Rinse well with thinners and let them dry. Lube lightly with some atf and reinstall.
Appreciate learning that Kirk. :up:
For now very happy w progress on my '80 Flh.
Pulled battery box to clean it behind it. Minimal rust on back of tray.
Will Ospho and touch up with Rustoleum Black and rust preventative primer. One
spot about 2 inches x 1/2 to touch up as well. Carb ready to reassemble
Main jet .064 Intermediate .295
Minor rust in low spots of fat bobs going to splash some apple cider vinegar mild acid and perhaps 5'6 small nuts to agitate those ares. KD suggested Marine Fuel treatment found some to add to non ethical fuel.
U all are awesome.
Quote.Pulled speedo had tape below speed nut to keep from running down the cable to no man's land.
I always slip a zip tie in there before pulling the speedo for the same reason.
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on June 01, 2022, 05:53:16 PMQuote.Pulled speedo had tape below speed nut to keep from running down the cable to no man's land.
I always slip a zip tie in there before pulling the speedo for the same reason.
Fugawee tipped me off. Thanks 76.
OK here's to Turboprp, KD, Fugaewee, Ohio, Hoss and those I missed. Some Marvel came out the dresser headers so slipped the drag pipes on. Local indy had a .068 Main Jet so bumped the .064 to the bench. Used Fugawee funnel of gas hung from right mirror. Took carb/throttle body cleaner in the holes. Pulled a plug saw spark. She barked, next push of the starter she purrs. Sounds terrific. Thanks all.
Pulled buddy seat spring post put Corbin in place. U guys rock.
So close to riding!
Glad to hear she purrs. That old girl is gorgeous and is going to be a lot fun to ride.
Hallelujah! Congratulations! I'll bet there was a smile beyond ear to ear when You woke the Bike up. That's always a great feeling. Don't forget to give it a big Kiss and Pat Yourself on the back.
Now get back to work...
Shovelers,
To all who helped, I have not been slacking. With the handlebars turned I can start addressing the front master cylinder. Removed tires, Fugawee suggested doing a 2 for 1 while on the table lift. It saved the old back.
Indy wants me clean inside of muck off rims the Monday new Dunflops and tubes.
With wife's help we pulled rear chain cover, and wrestled rear brake disk and wheel out of caliper, more fun. Front axle was at a stressed angle with porch bolts loosened 2 much, lol.
Steady progress found intake manifold o rings to be shot as missing a full circle of the o-ring.
It was a puzzle to start. Have 68 maim, 295 intermediate. No enrichener seems like 3 twists of throttle to fire off and run. Help appreciated.
This is all good news!
OK big thank you to all that responded with help. Final service to do is fix an oil leak from bottom of gear case /cam chest cover. It drips the size of a dime each time I run it on lift with 2 fans for 1-2 minutes. Puddle grows longer bike sits each time I wipe up puddle, lol. Carb accelerator pump screw was not enough turns out. Main jet now a 68, carb was filthy gummy.
Tan Something like 1 & 1/2.oved it out to 3 &1/2. Air mixture at 2 turns out. Starts first time every time with no choke/enrichener. Brake pads r now new front and rear banana cleaned, flushed and new Belray Dot 5 Purple. Old fluid was yellow and dirty, old pads about 50% worn. New Dunflops, wheel bearings and swimgarm greased. Fugawee suggested removing fear drop out and shifting thru all gears, ATF in gearbox thanks 2 Turboprop. With grandkids, family, I got hung up so was not slacking, hit it hard whenever I could. Felt all who helped should get an update on the Classic 80 Shovel. Put marine grade Stabil in tanks. Plates from DMV now on as of yesterday. Hope to start on oil leak today if indy has what I need.
Need to scribe where my timing is set before removing stock ignition plate, correct me if wrong and 4 turns on adj. Pushrods after removing lifters.
Have service manual just wish to confirm w u all.
Test ride 4 miles, All systems go.
Bike shifting up and down speeds up to 45 taking it ez until I can learn it's quirks. Some drips for now to be addressed as time allows.
Updated this afternoona since gaskets arrive next week.
2nd test run 10 miles all gears up to 60mph. Very smooth at speed and shifting like butter with the ATF.
Primary is now dry as it is on the original engine oil lube with the hoses coming from oil pump and return as well as vent. A joy 2 ride.
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That is a great looking shovel. Congrats on many levels.
Yes, it sure is.
Quote from: Fugawee on July 16, 2022, 07:34:46 PMYes, it sure is.
Fugawee, u helped make it EZ on spinning the wrenches I look in the mailbox every day nervously.
Quote from: kd on May 07, 2022, 05:28:52 PMWas the garage it sat in heated with any climate control? If it was anywhere in the north where the temp shifts from warm to freeing there will be condensation and over 15 years of sitting without at least cranking it over you can count on the rollers marking the crank pin and mains. That is from experience not guessing. The 80 has Timkin left side bearings. A way to get an idea is to pull the compensator and slip the outer Timkin cone (roller) out and see what the cup (race) and rollers look like. That won't mean the crank pin is OK but it will give you a hint at possible damage.
If the rings have been sitting in the same place all that tine under non favorable climate the condensation will effect the rings, piston ring grooves and cylinders. If you have or can get an endoscope you can take the pistons to BDC and scan them for marks. You wont see the rings but marked cylinder walls ups the possibility of mung in the rings and grooves.
IMO turboprop has given some good advice if you are prepared to give it a shot starting it. You notice his suggestion starts with a capitol P for Patience. FLHS90's question about Marvel mystery oil is a good one and IMO a good suggestion too. If after a while you can crank it with MMO in the oil tank and let it sit the MMO will feed to the bottom end bearings and hopefully be beneficial there too.
If this bike is as minty as you say it will be well worth it to take the time to do do it the best way possible before hitting it with fuel and spark. You'll have lots of little things to do in the mean time anyway.
Excellent coaching Turboprop and KD,
I worked very patiently as advised.
The results were well worth it and the shovel deserved nothing less.
Brings a smile.
I'm glad to see it worked out so well so far. It's a great looking survivor and should give you many more smiles. Probably a little frustration from time to time also. :hyst: You did a great job.
Your next job is to send the previous owner a link to this thread so he can see that you were true to your stated intentions and got it back to where it should be.
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Shovelers that helped I feel u should be part of the progress. My rear caliper got stuck and slowed the bike down. A 3/8 wrench and a screwdriver allowed me to get back hone. Organizing a tool kit to carry as I sort out the bike and fix components that need to be addressed. Went entirely through the rear master to banana flushing. New seals, etc. Test ride just confirmed the repairs have bananas working front and rear releasing piston as they should. Was surprised with the Japan replacement rubber rear hose.
A for the electrical wizard the nextt time starter button clicks a d a no start have a new Genuine Bosch relay to carry or install, no idea if the starter relay is from 1980.
More to learn. I perform the repair 3 or 4 times over and over but the shortcuts are sinking in this thick skull of mine. Frustration not allowed this is for fun.
Filled the tank with Moco's 50 wt. Put the free qt of Belray 20w50 that seller gave me in the tranny after the ATF flush suggested 2 me.
Cut open the tank oil filter and studied the non metallic small flakes possibly aluminum tucked away in crevices with sludge. Shovel has put around 70 miles on it since the engine soak.
Thanks to all.