I recently installed a VPC along with a SE clutch spring in my S&S 110 build. Even with the VPC, the clutch lever is a bit hard to pull. I'm wondering whether a teflon, braided clutch cable wound make it easier.
2013 Dyna
Thanks
VPC should make clutch pull easier at idle, and stiffer above 2500 RPM. Much stiffer above 5K.
A new clutch cable is often smoother than an older worn one. I thought that your current cable was already Teflon lined, but may be worn. You could try lubing it (I use Tri-Flow), and cleaning and lubing the clutch handle and perch.
My 2015 RK has a SE 110 with SE spring and has a VPC with a stock cable. I'm used to the variation in lever effort vs RPMs with the VPC. When I compare them side-by-side in the garage, the RK seems to have a lighter pull. The 2013 Dyna has stock cables and a VPC. It hadn't been ridden for several years when I bought it at the beginning of this year. Maybe the cable has gotten a bit gummed up from non-use. Anyway there's nothing to lose by lubing it. It just so happens I found a can of tri-flow on the shelf.
As usual, thanks a lot.
Barnett cables seem to have the best lining to reduce the lever effort.
But some lube as Hoss suggested might do wonders.
After copious amounts of Tri-flow, I'll put it back together and try it. The pivot pin and eyelet pin were both almost dry, so that can't be good. I'm don't remember what lube to use on those. I seem to remember using anti-seize on my old Dyna. The SM doesn't call for lubing them.
I give them a good cleaning with WD40 and a very thin smear of grease, including the plastic slide. Anti-sieze is not a lubricant to be used on moving parts, it is an abrasive in that situation.
Grease it is then.
Elevate the cable and build a pool out of plastic and tape on the end. Then add a few drops of ShockProof and let it drip in overnight. It will be done forever. I learned this on here 19 years ago.
cling
Quote from: 02roadcling on August 09, 2022, 09:06:54 AMElevate the cable and build a pool out of plastic and tape on the end. Then add a few drops of ShockProof and let it drip in overnight. It will be done forever. I learned this on here 19 years ago.
cling
The shockproof may gum up if the cable is Teflon lined, the TriFlow dries so no gumming up.
i cut a tennis ball in half drill a hole underneath and poke the cable thru hang the ball up and put lubricant in and leave over night
I use a piece of garden hose and a hose clamp. I've also just made a tape funnel and tie a rag to the cable underneath the funnel to catch the drips that seep thru.
I just used a spray can straw alongside the cable. It worked OK, but it didn't make much difference in the pull effort.
Quote from: Hossamania on August 09, 2022, 01:29:05 PMThe shockproof may gum up if the cable is Teflon lined, the TriFlow dries so no gumming up.
What do you base that on, that Shockproof oil may gum up in a teflon lined cable?
Has that happened to you?
The Teflon cables aren't supposed to be lubed at all is my understanding. I did lube mine with 3in1 light oil, and it seemed to gum up, bind a bit. I ran it for a while, then relubed with just Tri Flow and it eventually got better, but is due to be replaced, 10 years old, 50,000+ miles
https://a.co/d/2m5WJjQ
This thing works pretty well
Quote from: Hossamania on August 09, 2022, 06:23:11 PMThe Teflon cables aren't supposed to be lubed at all is my understanding.
The dealer told me this years ago. I checked my records, and I was mistaken about the cable on my RK. It was replaced with a Barnett teflon version when I had the engine built back in 2017. I've never lubed it, and the action is still smooth with an easy pull. Ergo the difference in pull effort between the RK and the Dyna with it's stock version.
I ordered a new Barnett from Phil. I'm hoping it will help my tendonitis.
Do you need the SE spring with the vpc?
A SE spring was included with the HD Tire Shredder 110 kit for the RK. It was a real bear to pull, so I installed a VPC, and it made it much easier.
The Dyna has an S&S 110 kit, and I added the spring and VPC at the same time based on my experience with the RK.
It is the other way around. If the build requires a stronger spring, than adding a VPC will help reduce the pull effort at low/mid RPMs. A Barnett cable would provide additional reduction.
The reason I ask is because I thought the vpc allows the use of the lighter stock spring but applies more pressure as rpm increase to prevent slip.
You may be able to put the stock spring back in, lighter clutch pull, but no slip as you add power.
With the S&S build, using a stock spring might be pushing it a bit. I haven't had it dynoed, but I'm guessing it would be making somewhere around 130/130, and that would be borderline with the stock spring. Once I install the new cable, it will be the same setup as the RK, and I'm happy with that.
I was wondering about that too, hope the cable helps. Good luck!
Thanks Hoss.
Quote from: Hossamania on August 10, 2022, 06:11:20 PMDo you need the SE spring with the vpc?
I installed the Barnett cable, and it helps a little but not as much as I had hoped. I'm going to try the stock spring and see what happens. My joints are still painful when squeezing the lever. Getting old is a drag.
I can't speak for Your VPC...but as far as Cable Lubing I'll throw My 2 cents in.
I use a product for lubing the Cable(s) called Dri-Slide Bike Aid. It comes in a plastic squirt bottle with a Steel Needle like Applicator that You insert between the Outer Sheath and the Inner Cable and give a few squirts. The stuff works great on all types of Cables, not just Motorcycles, with an outer sheath and is easy, and clean to use. No need to rig anything up to lube a cable or remove it. I use a Velcro Strap and hold the Clutch Lever in and apply. Let it sit for a few minutes and work the Lever a few times.
For the Lever Housing Area, I use a product called Lubriplate 130-AA. I use that on the Lever, Cable "Eye" and Pin, and around the Inside Housing and work it around with a Q-tip and get rid of the excess. You don't need a lot. That stuff comes in a tube, like toothpaste with a small applicator end and looks a little like Peanut Butter.
Both work just as good on Your Throttle Cables, should You have them. Same routine...just remove the Upper Housing at the Throttle Cables, squirt some Dri-Slide in them, lube the area with the Ferrules with the Lubriplate, remove the excess, and close it up.
The Dri-Slide is available at "Better" Bicycle Stores locally that You may have in Your area that cater to the "Serious" Bicyclists and is around 20 bucks a bottle. It will last You a long time.
The Lubriplate is available at small Hardware Stores usually...like a Mom and Pop type if any are still around where You are located. I have never seen it in the Big-Name Stores like Lowes, Home Depot, etc. Maybe they do now. I don't know. That costs about 8 bucks.
For the approx. $30.00 You may spend, They'll last quite a while.
Both Products are available on Amazon, and Ebay also.
I found a partial bottle of Dri-Slide in the garage, but I don't see a need to lube a new teflon-lined cable. BTW if I wanted a new bottle, I think I'd need to mortgage the house -
To lube, or not to lube...of course that is Your choice. It's Your Bike. I have done My share of replacing Clutch Cables over the years. I chose to lube a brand-new Cable with no issues. The last bottle of Dri-Slide that I bought was less than 20 bucks about 1, or 1 1/2 years ago. Good Luck with it.
I'm done with the cable. It is properly adjusted and works fine with a bit less effort. However I noticed that the lever is a little 'notchy'. It binds intermittently when pulled or released. I'm a little concerned that it will engage suddenly instead of gradually. Anyone ever run into this problem? BTW the balls are properly seated, and the inner ramp slides easily. Snap ring is seated properly, etc.
QuoteAnyone ever run into this problem?
fraying inners feel like that
Teflon Cables aren't meant to bee lubed, as said earlier ..... BUT I did regardless
I used my gravity feed method ..... took the cable out of the perch and front downtube area, layed the cable down on the floor with a baggie over the end to catch the oil (shockproof) drible out and let gravity drain some oil from the trannie to the baggie via the cable overnight
what is the basket like? notches from the plates could transfer some of the feel through to the lever?
I'm using BelRay this time, but I don't know what was in it before. The bike has only about 5K on it. I can do what you suggested, but how did you get the oil into the cable without removing the clutch release cover? Just run it for a while and let the slinger do its thing?
I did some research on lubing teflon-lined cables. From what I read, teflon cables don't normally need to be lubed, but lubing won't hurt them due to their high chemical resistance. In some cases the lube may reduce friction.
I gotta ask, why not just put a clutch spring in with a few less pounds of pressure? I mean you have the VPC to handle the clutch as the RPM's go up. Hoss noted this earlier on. Even if you get to 130/130 (dyno tuning and head work is the way to get these numbers) it's not going to make that power under 2,000 RPM's.
I think your bike would have had the 37882-06A clutch spring, I think rated at 260 lbs pressure. The SE spring would have about 380 lbs pressure. Go in between somewhere like a 37871-04 rated at 300 lbs pressure, or the 37871-98A rated at 320 lbs pressure.
The pressure stated is numbers I've gotten off the HTT site over the years. I have no idea exactly how accurate they are. But in concept the pressure spacing should be pretty close percentage wise.
I would love to install a lighter spring if I knew it would handle the load and reduce lever effort, but I'm not sure it would fix the current problem of the 'notchiness'. It didn't have the problem when it was stock. I'm only using the SE spring because it is the same one that was included in the 110 kit that I installed on my RK.
The spring was included with the kit as the kit was not anticipating the use of a vpc.
You might reach out to m1marty and ask him what he did for a clutch on this 110 making 125/125. His clutch isn't slipping based on the dyno pull. Takes headwork and a good tune to get the power up here.
110 Making 125/125 (https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,115239.msg1382515.html#msg1382515)
Quote from: Hossamania on August 29, 2022, 08:15:01 PMThe spring was included with the kit as the kit was not anticipating the use of a vpc.
Good point Hoss.
Quote from: Ohio HD on August 29, 2022, 08:29:12 PMYou might reach out to m1marty and ask him what he did for a clutch on this 110 making 125/125. His clutch isn't slipping based on the dyno pull. Takes headwork and a good tune to get the power up here.
Will do. I love the power it makes, so no problems there.
I changed the spring, and the effort is much less. I haven't ridden lately because of the heat, but I'm sure it will help with my hand pain. Thanks for the suggestion.
on my trike i run a hydraulic clutch. its so easy on the lever
Quote from: Jim Bronson on September 10, 2022, 01:16:10 PMI changed the spring, and the effort is much less. I haven't ridden lately because of the heat, but I'm sure it will help with my hand pain. Thanks for the suggestion.
Hopefully it holds well and Bob's your uncle.