Anyone have experience with these? The price point and warranty have me interested. I've had excellent service from Antigravity but don't know if they make a "perfect fit" for my Lowrider S. Where batteries are located on M8 softails, and the difficult access, I'd rather not have to try and shim.
I've had one in for about six months. It was a bit shy of double the price of an HD AGM. I've only had harley batteries in the bike and used to get 2 to 3 years out of an AGM. The lithium came with five year warranty so if it lasts that long I'll only really break even. Apparently it's generation 2 after generation 1 flopped. It's my first lithium bike battery and at first I thought the parts guy had given me an empty box, it's that light. That's gotta be worth a tenth! I would've liked to try antigravity but they're about $1000 here. BTW, Harley promote these lithium batteries as made in USA but that's not what's written on the battery. That's more of a heads up than an actual critique of the battery. Physical dimensions are almost identical.
edit: forgot to mention it's in a tc softail. I think it's the same battery as used in m8 low rider.
Couple more pics. My scales only go up to 5lbs, not enough to weigh an agm.
It's my understanding the lithium battery requires a special charger?
Our local dealer parts mgr talked me out of one.
He was tired of having to replace them under warranty.
My 2019 cvo has 70k mikes on the original battery still starting strong.
I don't see an advantage.
JMHO :potstir:
Quote from: HogMike on March 24, 2023, 07:03:51 AMOur local dealer parts mgr talked me out of one.
He was tired of having to replace them under warranty.
My 2019 cvo has 70k mikes on the original battery still starting strong.
I don't see an advantage.
JMHO :potstir:
Got a new one on order? (You may have just jinxed yourself)
Quote from: Hossamania on March 24, 2023, 04:54:49 AMIt's my understanding the lithium battery requires a special charger?
Which makes me wonder how the same charging system on the engine is still ok to charge it while riding. :scratch:
Quote from: FloridaJim5 on March 24, 2023, 01:26:36 PMWhich makes me wonder how the same charging system on the engine is still ok to charge it while riding. :scratch:
My understanding is you can use a standard battery charger with a lithium battery as long as charging rate set by the battery manufacturer is observed, as well as not over charging. That's a battery "charger".
A battery "tender" for an AGM doesn't work with a lithium as the lithium requires different "float" parameters. So they make a specific "tender" for a lithium battery. As far as I now these are best selected by what the lithium battery manufacture recommends.
Quote from: rigidthumper on March 24, 2023, 07:31:52 AMQuote from: HogMike on March 24, 2023, 07:03:51 AMOur local dealer parts mgr talked me out of one.
He was tired of having to replace them under warranty.
My 2019 cvo has 70k mikes on the original battery still starting strong.
I don't see an advantage.
JMHO :potstir:
Got a new one on order? (You may have just jinxed yourself)
I know, huh!
Got one on the shelf!
LOL
Quote from: FloridaJim5 on March 24, 2023, 01:26:36 PMQuote from: Hossamania on March 24, 2023, 04:54:49 AMIt's my understanding the lithium battery requires a special charger?
Which makes me wonder how the same charging system on the engine is still ok to charge it while riding. :scratch:
I have had a anti-gravity and "special charger" for about 10yrs now its been flawless. It was explained to me at the time a regular charger has a anti-sulphation cycle to clean the plates. This will ruin the lithium battery has there is no lead/acid plates. Quickest way to kill on is to run it dead below the level where it will take a charge. Bob
I am on year 8 with my first antigravity battery with special charger in my 124" HC Roadking. I have accidentally run it dead a few times & it still spins my bike like the plugs are out.
~John
Thanks everyone, but I have used LI batteries for 5 years and know about charging/tending them. I just wanted know if the HD were any good. Because its a nightmare to get to the battery on a M8 Softail, I want one that has the correct dimensions. The Antigravity in my 113" FXR is great, but required shimming which was easy, but would not be easy on a M8 softail without a lot of hassle.
Appears the HD are not very good.
My 02 FLHTCI came with an AGM, it lasted 9 years. Got a new AGM from batteries plus and it has ben in bike since 2011 and stills turns motor over good. I don't see a need to get a more costly battery.
Quote from: Deye76 on March 24, 2023, 04:29:07 PMThanks everyone, but I have used LI batteries for 5 years and know about charging/tending them. I just wanted know if the HD were any good. Because its a nightmare to get to the battery on a M8 Softail, I want one that has the correct dimensions. The Antigravity in my 113" FXR is great, but required shimming which was easy, but would not be easy on a M8 softail without a lot of hassle.
Appears the HD are not very good.
These new generation harley batteries have only been available for about a year. I haven't had it that long but so far I'm happy with it. Dimensions were a concern to me as well but it fits perfectly. I haven't started the bike for about a week and it still shows 13.3V. I've never used a battery tender. I'm running 10.5:1 in 95" and absolutely no problems with starting. I do use mcr's.
Lots of bad reports of the first generation harley batteries. They're easy to identify. They're orange.
I'm not trying to tell you what to do but I don't want you misunderstanding my first post. I like the new harley battery.
Quote from: Hossamania on March 24, 2023, 04:54:49 AMIt's my understanding the lithium battery requires a special charger?
As long as you don't use one that desulfates you should be fine. I've been using an old maintainer that doesn't have that option and have had no issues. FWIW I ride several times a week and don't use the maintainer unless it sits for more than 5 days. Bike fires right up every time like there are no spark plugs in it. Mine is a Shorai that I bought brand new from a neighbor that accidentally ordered 2. They are $350 on Amazon and they don't allow returns on them.
Thanks deuced.
I have noticed that Harley says their touring battery "fits" 04 and later touring models, but their AGM battery works with models older than that. Anybody know why this is?
Quote from: smoserx1 on March 26, 2023, 03:52:49 AMI have noticed that Harley says their touring battery "fits" 04 and later touring models, but their AGM battery works with models older than that. Anybody know why this is?
it's probably smaller.
~John
They are too unstable for my comfort. We had to build a blast proof building to store them. Like a dynamite shack.
Quote from: smoserx1 on March 26, 2023, 03:52:49 AMI have noticed that Harley says their touring battery "fits" 04 and later touring models, but their AGM battery works with models older than that. Anybody know why this is?
Good question.
Same AGM battery fits 1997 on up.
Below is specs on the 2. The Lithium from the Harley service sheet for that battery.
I have a Deka (East Penn) spec sheet, which the claim is who makes the Harley AGM.
Physical dimensions nearly identical.
Way different electrical specs.
| DEKA | HD 66000303 |
| L 6.625" | 6.89" |
| W 5.1875" | 4.96" |
| H 6.875" | 6.89" |
| 400 CCA | 700 Starting Current |
| 26 AH | 7.8 AH |
(Note: The Lithium tech sheet list Starting current instead of CCA.)
(Also the tech sheet for the Harley brand AGM doesn't list specs but has a charging chart and classifies the AGM as 28AH)
Quote from: jmorton10 on March 27, 2023, 02:42:45 AMQuote from: smoserx1 on March 26, 2023, 03:52:49 AMI have noticed that Harley says their touring battery "fits" 04 and later touring models, but their AGM battery works with models older than that. Anybody know why this is?
it's probably smaller.
~John
Charging system?
A lithium battery,on a bike, just exploded and killed two people . They are too unstable .
Quote from: Ironheadmike on April 12, 2023, 07:17:38 AMA lithium battery,on a bike, just exploded and killed two people . They are too unstable .
Can you post a link to the story?
When I bought my new to me FX the battery (AGM) was dead on the showroom. They jumped it and I gave it a full charge when I got it home. It's been firing up fine since then. I would have thought they ruined the battery by letting it discharge that bad but, AGMs are quit resilient.
When I was in Colorado flooded batteries used to drop like flies but the AGMs hung in there for months at a time without needing attention. Now that I'm retired and working part-time at a auto parts store I turn people on to the resilience of AGMs all the time especially now that the Arizona heat is well on its way...
QuoteCharging system?
That is what I was thinking too. I look at Ronnie's a lot to compare part #s and illustrations, and it looks like the stator was updated in 02 and the voltage reg in 04. I am pretty sure I have the newer stator and don't really know about the VR (the VR was the first to go, stator lasted many years after that), but it looks like 3 phase didn't come stock on baggers till 06. Anyway I'm not planning on buying a lithium battery anytime soon, and it won't be the first time Harley has excluded my model year for something that supposedly "fits" other years and it turned out to fit my bike just fine. I was just curious.
Quote from: Hossamania on April 12, 2023, 07:48:10 AMQuote from: Ironheadmike on April 12, 2023, 07:17:38 AMA lithium battery,on a bike, just exploded and killed two people . They are too unstable .
Can you post a link to the story?
I'll try to find it . It happened yesterday in New York
Quote from: Ironheadmike on April 12, 2023, 07:17:38 AMA lithium battery,on a bike, just exploded and killed two people . They are too unstable .
Wonder if it was a lithium iRon as opposed to lithium ion.
"if you handle a lithium-iron battery incorrectly, it is far less likely to be combustible, compared to a lithium-ion battery."
Link: https://goenergylink.com/blog/key-differences-between-lithium-ion-and-lithium-iron-batteries/#SnippetTab
Motorcycles should have a lithium iRon battery. I 've been using one (antigravity) for 4 years. Charging system is CycleElectric 3 phase.
Is this the story?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/04/11/e-bike-lithium-ion-battery-fire-new-york/11640554002/
Quote from: smoserx1 on April 12, 2023, 01:03:45 PMIs this the story?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/04/11/e-bike-lithium-ion-battery-fire-new-york/11640554002/
A little different than an explosion killing people. Fires are a known issue.
Quote from: Hossamania on April 12, 2023, 02:22:30 PMQuote from: smoserx1 on April 12, 2023, 01:03:45 PMIs this the story?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/04/11/e-bike-lithium-ion-battery-fire-new-york/11640554002/
A little different than an explosion killing people. Fires are a known issue.
my mc mech mate says the same
Quote from: Hossamania on April 12, 2023, 02:22:30 PMQuote from: smoserx1 on April 12, 2023, 01:03:45 PMIs this the story?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/04/11/e-bike-lithium-ion-battery-fire-new-york/11640554002/
A little different than an explosion killing people. Fires are a known issue.
Probably got confused by the quote from a firefighter in the story:
"We got here very quickly – and if this was not an e-bike fire, most likely we would've been able to put this fire out without incident. But the way these fires occur,
it's like an explosion of fire."
my mate always checks every night that his brother has not left any battery on charge
OK I've been researching lithium batteries pretty extensively for the past 8 months or so for a RV solar power setup. So while I'm no expert I like to think I know quite a bit about them. The solar panel community knows a LOT about them as they use them extensively for their setups. I'd suggest checking out Will Prowse on YouTube as a good starting point of lithium knowledge. Yes he looks like a young hipster punk but he seriously knows his stuff.
First off I'm going to say that nearly all lithium motorcycle batteries are chinese junk. Now I know that might hurt some feelings of lithium battery owners, and I'm sure many owners haven't had any problems but just hear me out as to why.
It's the BMS. Battery Management System. They are the electronic brain of the battery, and are 99% of the time the reason for lithium battery fires. Oh big surprise, they're all manufactured in China. These battery management systems fail from cheap components, shotty soldering, and undersized wiring. A BMS measures temperatures across the cells, sometimes with one sensor, sometimes two independent sensors. It keeps the battery from being overcharged (primary cause for fires btw) and manages how quickly the battery can discharge. You can have a $12 BMS or a $300 BMS and the retailer often won't tell you which- but they'll certainly tell you that it HAS one. All lithium batteries have one by default otherwise they don't work, so a retailer shoving this fact in your face means diddly squat.
Checking out motorcycle lithium battery prices at what... $200? It's a laughable pricetag to me when you compare it to serious lithium full-sized batteries that pretty much anything under $400 is often deemed questionable in quality. Most reputable lithium batteries like SOK and Battle Born cost quite a bit more, with Battle Born tipping the scales at $1,300. Right now if I were to get a lithium battery for my bike it would be Antigravity battery, their BMS seems to be pretty good right now. But technology is changing VERY fast in lithium batteries month to month so there might be another company at the top of the heap by christmas.
That's the other thing you have to keep in mind, these lithium battery companies come and go like the wind often- especially the cheap battery companies. They'll sell you a very long or lifetime warranty and 3 years later they go belly up and your warranty is worthless. So find a company that's established, and right now there's not too many of them in the lithium motorcycle battery field.
Lithium batteries are such an easy sales pitch: Less weight! More power! ... but there is sooo much more to them than that.
Lead acid batteries are much more durable when compared to lithium's very temperamental moods. If you run a lead acid battery down to under 10 volts or overcharge it chances are you can still salvage it and still use it. Not so with the lithium- do that and you WILL have an expensive brick. Another important thing to know about lithium- you can't use them (and usually cannot charge them) in less than 32 degrees F and often I'd suggest not even storing them in cold temperatures due to the electronics inside. A LOT of users don't heed this and come spring time their battery is shot and they're cursing out lithium batteries online. So if you're in the snow belt I'd not really recommend lithium unless you're really on point with their care in winter.
Anyways, I hope I've been helpful. If anyone has any related question feel free to message me.
Quote from: SmokyOwl on April 14, 2023, 08:11:38 PMAnother important thing to know about lithium- you can't use them (and usually cannot charge them) in less than 32 degrees F and often I'd suggest not even storing them in cold temperatures due to the electronics inside. A LOT of users don't heed this and come spring time their battery is shot and they're cursing out lithium batteries online. So if you're in the snow belt I'd not really recommend lithium unless you're really on point with their care in winter.
That was the biggest drawback for me with using lithium ion. I do a lot of riding in sub-freezing temperatures. In the winter before riding, I had to let the battery "warm up" by leaving the headlight on for a few minutes prior to starting. Even then it really struggled to start. Without doing the warm-up process at all? Forget it. You have a bike that won't start.