Haven't dealt with an iron head before and looking for some info.
Have an iron in the fire for buying an 89 iron.
He's asking $1800 for the bike, no extras with it.
He said when he ran it the last time and one pipe turned red so he shut it down.
He claims that there might be a valve stuck on one cylinder and that it might need a voltage regulator as it won't hold a charge.
Recently he says he tried to start it but she just pops, won't start.
This is his wording, not mine, just relating what he told me.
For the price ( he'll probably take $1500) run and don't look back or buy it and tackle the repairs?
I'm looking for something to work on and resell.
Thx for any input.
How much will it be worth once you have it in running condition? I don't see running examples selling for a lot of money, $2.5k to $3k around here. Not much profit to be made if you have to put in more than a few hundred bucks, plus your time to learn how to fix it, and to actually fix it. (I charge myself $25 per hour to calculate what my time is worth to me.) Do you have any experience working on Ironheads?
Do you homework, at the very least a compression test before buying. Without some kind of test ride, you have no idea what works, what doesn't (transmission, clutch, etc.)
Ironheads rarely require "just a little tlc" to get them running. Especially when a seller says "it just needs a little tlc to get it running."
If it's an '89, it sure ain't no Ironhead. Last year for Ironhead is 1985. Typo? Or does the guy not know what he has?
-JW
Beat me to it. Maybe meant a '79.
Sorry, yup typo, shes an 85'.
Me bad.
I'd pass unless you can get it for next to nothing. It's worth maybe in running order $3,500?
I think that $1800 is about all it would be worth in running order. A dead ironhead that needs parts and labor? The dude will be lucky to get $500 for it IF the thing is somewhat cosmetically OK. My first ironhead was given to me by a guy at work as it needed a lot of work. Sounds like this bike is going to need a lot as well.
-JW
Quote from: Panzer on March 03, 2019, 11:28:30 AM
Haven't dealt with an iron head before and looking for some info.
Have an iron in the fire for buying an 89 iron.
He's asking $1800 for the bike, no extras with it.
He said when he ran it the last time and one pipe turned red so he shut it down.
He claims that there might be a valve stuck on one cylinder and that it might need a voltage regulator as it won't hold a charge.
Recently he says he tried to start it but she just pops, won't start.
This is his wording, not mine, just relating what he told me.
For the price ( he'll probably take $1500) run and don't look back or buy it and tackle the repairs?
I'm looking for something to work on and resell.
Thx for any input.
is this bike in Delaware? is the guys name Buddy ?
if so I know that bike
what they all said.
I love ironheads.
have had one since 1974.
but to get one to work on and sell is ok .............
if you like losing time and money.
Quote from: garyajaz on March 04, 2019, 10:16:54 AM
what they all said.
I love ironheads.
have had one since 1974.
but to get one to work on and sell is ok .............
if you like losing time and money.
That made me laugh!
No Pete, it's in Lancaster, Pa.
Now he says it's an 84'. :emoGroan:
Quote from: Panzer on March 04, 2019, 05:50:13 PM
No Pete, it's in Lancaster, Pa.
Now he says it's an 84'. :emoGroan:
:up: got ya! an 84 ha...wow a one off :up:
I think I'd be backing away quickly from that one
RUN
Forrest
RUN
Now I need to know, seriously...........why do you all say back away and run.
I will listen to you all, but I have to know why? :nix:
In your op, you said you're looking for something to work on and sell.
Are you looking to make a profit on the sale? I ask that honestly.
With the info you gave, if everything comes together perfectly and easily, you MIGHT break even, but I don't see it, unless this thing is in pristine condition.
Good parts are hard to come by. Your learning curve will be steep. You will more than likely have to farm out at least some of the work.
They are not exactly a bike that is in high demand.
Have you checked to find out what they are selling for in running condition?
And not just running condition. Curb appeal is everything. If it looks like trash, it ain't worth much unless it is rare and in high demand. Knuckle head? Heck yes. Late model Sportster? Nah...
-JW
it's a different animal :idunno:
the guy I thought was selling his in Del was a wrench, got this Ironhead and did a total restore, engine, tranny, fired it up and blew the motor simply because he got the oil line routing wrong :crook:
Thanks guys for the feed.
Hoss, I checked Blue Book and the going price is $3400 in good condition, he's asking $1800.
The bike (from pics) is fair as far as the tins go.
He claim it has top end problems (valves ?) :nix:
Won't hold a charge like I stated above, he claims it needs a regulator.
I had in mind of offering him 1k........... what's all your thoughts on that??
I doubt he'll take 1k so, on what you guys have suggest, I'm going to back off the sale.
I'll see what he says, and all of you say.
JW113, Pete, Hoss, & Gary........thx.
What say ye?? Listening!!
Ironheads are the redheaded step child of the HD family. No offense Gary!
Just the thoughts that go through my head.
.
Well, I just checked Delaware CL for the going price of ironheads, and I must say, they are asking a lot more than they are here, so maybe you can make it work.
But if you don't have mad skills and good knowledge working on them, the learning curve is steep.
Hoss, I understand what you're saying, I'm willing to learn, not to old yet to learn.
I'm still looking for a reason why not to buy any no one has given a good answer why not to buy.
No one has said.......parts are non existent, or part prices for an Iron are outrageous, etc., that bike was mechanical disaster & part prices for an Iron are outrageous, that bike was mechanical unfit from day one or AMF made that bike not HD, etc.
Again gents, I'm depending on your educated answers.
Standing by..................thx,
Panz
Almost all Ironheads are mechanical disasters, after 30-50 years of mistreatment by owners who couldn't buy a big twin. Worked on by savages who really don't have a clue or a manual. Patched up and ridden til it quits.
Hey I said "almost". :scoot:
third time to type this? :wtf:
its gonna be short.
Panzer, Burnout got it dead on.
first time, 2 hours ago, I typed out a list as you required. then something happened and a whole page got zapped.
crap.
so I retyped it and refined it some. was nice work.
hit send. my one hour time frame ended and site wanted me to sign in again.
that dissertation was lost.
so now starting over and frustrated (but wanting to help)
in 1974 I bought mine NEW. mine been only ham hands on it.
and I still wonder.
how many hands your prospect been through.
I also guarantee he did not notice red pipe and shut it down.
it clattered to a stop and he selling it.
I agree valve is probably stuck...into the piston.
so looking at total top end disassembly, parts, few special tools,
on and on.
unless you really like iron they really not worth the time and effort.
regulator? right. the "cheapest" part of charging system.
nope. new batt right off. I would bet 85% chance bad gen. new from cycle electric more money.
then to clutch, primary chain wear.
you want it to shift?
betting that old has bent shift forks and some rounding gear dogs.
pull tyanny door out.
while there new swing arm bearings so it wont wobble?
and don't forget fork bearings. wheels and tires and tubes?
more money. never ending.
if a pet project with love they fine.
to sell, and make money?
first like Hoss said find a buyer. they not lining up.
then how much is your time worth?
some years ago when I got seriously old I sold off my vintage euro race bike collection.
over 100 machines. all restored to as or better than new running condition.
made about .25 cents an hour. I not worth much but my labor and knowledge is worth more than a quarter an hour.
Well Gary, you won out on this one. :up:
All the rest of you came in second and I appreciate the feed on this Iron head.
It goes without saying that I'll back away from this bike, I really am not in favor of "red heads"....... they have a temper.
I really wanted a bike to work on during the winter, well winter is almost at its end, time for riding & warm weather...........next time, next winter.
To all, thanks again for the feeds and a tip-o-the hat from Panz. :up:
If you could find a cheap Evo Sportster to work on, that would be much easier to find cheap and readily available parts to get it going. A lot more shops around willing and knowledgeable to work on it.
But again, they don't sell for a lot of money, so it would have to be bought smart.
Or, buy a crashed big twin, find cheap parts to repair it, and send it. I know a couple guys that do it on a regular basis and do ok. Again, it's about buying smart and sourcing cheap parts, scouring swap meets, Craigslist, etc.
Well Gary, you won out on this one
NO SIR.
its you, Panzer, that came out with sanity and hair intact.
as well as money.
the evo idea Hoss has is good.
build cheap to ride.
sell? again not so much.
bout 10 years ago I bought a 03 buell.
evo sporty motor. paid $3500 for it.
cosmetically perfect and stock. not cut up.
runs perfect. did not need anything... $3500
over the years I put in batt, tires, brakes, fork seals along with motor/tranny oil and filter.
that's it.
still ride the thing.
There are so many good used bikes on the market, it's hard to find a good cheap one that can use a little tlc and flip for a decent profit.
Now, if you could find somebody that will help you find one at an auction, that would be the way to go.
For reference, yesterday a friend of mine bought a 2000 Sportster, 883, 10,000 miles, broken rear turn signal, ran good, everything else worked, for $2250. They were only asking $2400, and even then they came off of that. I figure they probably got it at auction for about $800.
He is not looking to flip it, just ride it.
:agree: with Hoss, these look like some good prices for example
https://picklesgapcycleshack.com/Inventory/Pre-Owned-Inventory/USED/Harley-Davidson/Motorcycles/Unknown
I think you should check out xlforum.net, it's really dedicated to just ironheads and you can get a better feel for the ironhead and why some people really like them.
Why? Nostalgia. Some of us old geezers are just stuck on nostalgia. You could make an incredibly convincing arguement why a brand new 2018 Chevy Silverado is light years better than my 1955 Chevy 3100 and you'd be right, but I still am not going to ditch my old beater and go for new. I like the old stuff. Same with Ironheads, they're a flash from the past. 1950's tech at it's best, grandaddy of the modern stuff. You can pull up to a bike gathering on a new bike and get lost in the crowd. Or pull up on an old antique piece of crap and people take notice and start asking questions. Either you're into that kind of thing or you're not. The wonderful thing about Ironheads is that if you are, they are about the cheapest way to get in the door.
-JW
why?
personally I like the punishment of kick starting a high compression stroker.
then riding with minimal brakes. more power than handling is another plus.
oh wait.
"cheapest way to get in the door"
.... :chop:.....unless you're trying to buy mine--- :koolaid4:
Now yours is pure vintage. I think any of the 50s-60s models are going to be on the pricey side. 70s-80s, not so much. Unless it's a XR1000 or XLCR, those seem to bring a nice pile of dough.
It's kind of funny, the one in question here, 1984, is really about as good as a Sportster gets. Lighter late model welded steel frame with triangulated rear section, alternator charging system, stronger engine/trans cases, decent Kehin carb. And yet, nobody wants them. WTH?
-JW
Why? Well I think I answered a question identifying a Velocette for Panzer once, so I thought maybe he might like vintage and ingest more info on the iron head.
As to my why, I like the fact I have a magneto and carb (gravity fuel feed is pretty reliable) in my 1969 and no electric ignition, fuel injection nonsense. My nostalgia, is remembering 1969, I was riding a Mach III and my best friend had an XLCH, he would let me ride it, you could rev it up drop the clutch and burn rubber like a car, as the front end slowly rose up.
Hey, but to everybody each his own.
I understand wanting to buy an old Ironhead and get it roadworthy. I was just trying to point out the tough road ahead trying to make money doing it the first time, in my opinion. I love seeing the old iron on the road, and always gravitate toward it when it pulls into the lot.
Knowing what it costs to restore bikes (as that's what I do), ANY bike, I think it's hard to make any money at it. The only way I see is to not buy-restore-sell, but to run a restoration business and restore other peoples bikes for them, making money on your labor and parts. I had thought at one time that might be a nice retirement job, but then again...
-JW
Quote from: JW113 on March 11, 2019, 01:02:27 PM
Now yours is pure vintage. I think any of the 50s-60s models are going to be on the pricey side. 70s-80s, not so much. Unless it's a XR1000 or XLCR, those seem to bring a nice pile of dough.
It's kind of funny, the one in question here, 1984, is really about as good as a Sportster gets. Lighter late model welded steel frame with triangulated rear section, alternator charging system, stronger engine/trans cases, decent Kehin carb. And yet, nobody wants them. WTH?
-JW
I think one reason they are not that popular, is that for not much more money you can get an FLH shovelhead, and sportsters have always been thought of as a "lesser" bike, unfair as that may be.
Also, an Evo Sportster does not need a top end every 20 to 30 thousand miles as the Ironhead motors have traditionally been known for. Maybe the ironheads don't need that kind did of service, I've not dealt with them, but I know the Shovelhead motors sure seemed to.
To be honest, I've never ridden an Ironhead even close to that kind of miles, so I would not be able to comment. However, calendar-wise, they've held up just fine.
:SM:
I have to say that I would not own an Ironhead as my high mileage daily rider. The prior one was a hard tail chopper, good only for the local bar on Saturday night and the occasional poker run. My current one is quite a bit more practical, but even at that, after about an hour or so on the thing and I'm done for the day. One has to be a lot tougher than this old geez to wear out an Ironhead.
:hyst:
What I can tell you is that getting the heads on/off is a cake walk. If they do require frequent service, at least they made it fairly easy to do it.
-JW
The need for frequent head service is likely due to a poor tuneup.
However Ironheads have a serious deficiency in the combustion chamber design.
The "dome" or crown of the piston is very tall and divides the combustion chamber.
The spark plug is hidden from the majority of the fuel mixture.
This causes a very slow "delayed" ignition of the mixture.
This also results in poor inefficient combustion which in turn causes carbon deposits.
The fix is dual plugs, I think the MoCo never implemented this in production because they could not have the Ironheads be any faster than they were.
As it was in the right hands an Ironhead could beat a Big Twin. If they had made a production dual plug head no one would buy a Big Twin.
I think by this time the Ironheads place in their marketing scheme was an entry level or girls bike.
If you have the heads off this is the biggest bang for the buck mod you can do to an Ironhead.
This gives the Ironhead a much more efficient combustion chamber, better throttle response, better fuel mileage, and more power, WITH LESS SPARK ADVANCE!
Dual plugging dramatically shortens the flame propagation time so the motor needs significantly less spark advance for optimum operation.
It also gets significantly more of the fuel in the cylinder lit before peak pressure is reached, resulting in more power and a cleaner burn.
This is much easier on the motor, it broadens the "tuning window" and makes the motor less susceptible to detonation.
More complete combustion also will even keep the oil cleaner and decrease carbon deposits in the combustion chamber all while making more power and making it live longer.
Even if they had dual plugged the heads and turned the Ironhead into a fire breather, I don't think it would have been more popular than the big twins. As mentioned, it just wasn't comfortable for the long ride. It would have had to have been put into a much more comfortable chassis, and be able to do touring duty. Sportsters have always been faster than the FLH bikes, but not more popular.
The V-Rod had an incredible motor, look what happened to that.
Not to mention, the Sportster of the Ironhead era had an awful lot of competition. From the Brits, and later the Japanese. As far as touring/cop/parade bikes went (at least here in the USA), there was the FL/FLH, and then there was....??? Sure, there were a limited number of models from Germany and Italy that were classified as tourer, but until the Honda Goldwing came along, the Big Twins basically had no competition. And then the Super Glide came along, which took even more sales away from Sportster.
Regards of it all, I still like 'em. Warts and all!
:bike:
-JW
Quote from: Hossamania on March 13, 2019, 04:38:30 AM
Even if they had dual plugged the heads and turned the Ironhead into a fire breather, I don't think it would have been more popular than the big twins. As mentioned, it just wasn't comfortable for the long ride. It would have had to have been put into a much more comfortable chassis, and be able to do touring duty. Sportsters have always been faster than the FLH bikes, but not more popular.
The V-Rod had an incredible motor, look what happened to that.
I always called my Ironhead a Buck Board.
They would have sold a lot more of them if they had improved them. Look how many EVO Sportys were sold.
The V-Rod came too late, and was too much like the Asian bikes.
Quote from: Burnout on March 13, 2019, 08:39:07 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on March 13, 2019, 04:38:30 AM
Even if they had dual plugged the heads and turned the Ironhead into a fire breather, I don't think it would have been more popular than the big twins. As mentioned, it just wasn't comfortable for the long ride. It would have had to have been put into a much more comfortable chassis, and be able to do touring duty. Sportsters have always been faster than the FLH bikes, but not more popular.
The V-Rod had an incredible motor, look what happened to that.
I always called my Ironhead a Buck Board.
They would have sold a lot more of them if they had improved them. Look how many EVO Sportys were sold.
The V-Rod came too late, and was too much like the Asian bikes.
...OR maybe the V-Rod came too soon.... I know "that's what she said" :smilep:
Quote from: JW113 on March 13, 2019, 08:00:06 AM
Not to mention, the Sportster of the Ironhead era had an awful lot of competition. From the Brits, and later the Japanese. As far as touring/cop/parade bikes went (at least here in the USA), there was the FL/FLH, and then there was....??? Sure, there were a limited number of models from Germany and Italy that were classified as tourer, but until the Honda Goldwing came along, the Big Twins basically had no competition. And then the Super Glide came along, which took even more sales away from Sportster.
Regards of it all, I still like 'em. Warts and all!
:bike:
-JW
Yes; competition for the customer in the day...In '71 a Sportster was nearly twice the price of a BSA 650. I could only afford the BSA, and it served me well. A few years later, in '76, I was looking to move "up" and test rode a Superglide and the new Gold Wing. I went with the 'Wing; at the time it was so far advanced; VERY fast and smooth, compared to the HD. Now; I got the bike I couldn't afford then ('74 XLCH) and a separate touring bike as required (FXDF).
...in Kentucky I bought a new 71 650 BSA($1547) and traded for a new 72 XLCH($2020) and the sporty did not have lucas electrics :chop:
.. :wtf: since I'm bored it took me 3 days to put 2 old avon speedmasters on my sporties. newest one was an '04 but no cracks and very good rubber. dont ask how old the date code on the other one is. :scoot: wife did help hold a spoon or 2. :chop: