Thinking about changing my springs from silver-no shims, to gold -two shims to ease lever pull on my 08 110 bagger 120/123 hp-tq. I dont if it will hold it without slipping.Unless i use a type of ramp, muller for example?It is cable not hyd not sure what my options are.Thanks Paul
The ramp will only change the lever effort required and the amount of total travel. It wont change the holding power thats set by the springs. Bob
Ok thanks,I talked to john at Bandit and he mentioned there is also a red medium spring available.Ireally dont hammer on it all that often,I have the silver out of now and will try the gold standard springs with two shims and try that.
Bandit advertises that their gray spring with no shims gives 322 pounds of pressure. Their gold springs with two shims is 237 pounds.
If you're trying to reduce lever effort, and not cause clutch slippage, I'd try gold springs and four shims. See if the lever effort is reduced enough for you.
(https://i.imgur.com/8jcFpwK.png)
I just went out to the and garage and assembled with gold springs with two shims and could tell a major difference.I will ad two shims to each spring tomorrow,and ride it-when it warms up-and check for slippage.Thanks Ohio! Paul
If you can make it slip you can add shims to every other spring as long as you keep it even.
As said if you use a device like the Muller arm the lever pull will lighten up about 40% (advertised). You can keep the heavier spring setting then. The travel will be less so adjustment becomes critical. I found next to 0 free play at the lever is where it must be. Just enough to unload the tension on the lever pivot pin. A return spring on the cable in the transmission is very helpful to ensure the pushrod is disengaged at such a fine adjustment. As the clutch heats up the free play grows. The Muller lever will put the engagement point closer to the center of the lever throw. It also engages slower (not like a switch) which actually makes it easier to feather in traffic or parking lots.
:up: Cool thank you I may go with the muller. Thanks again for everyones help.
Quote from: pstreetglide62 on January 17, 2022, 05:10:14 PMI may go with the muller
if you do I suggest you get the inner ramp recess enlarged and fit a Baker Heavy Duty Throw-out Bearing.
And as
kd has suggested fit a return spring on the clutch cable at the transmission end
(https://i.imgur.com/7DXt3GI.png)
Quote from: FSG on January 17, 2022, 05:33:17 PMQuote from: pstreetglide62 on January 17, 2022, 05:10:14 PMI may go with the muller
if you do I suggest you get the inner ramp recess enlarged and fit a Baker Heavy Duty Throw-out Bearing.
And as kd has suggested fit a return spring on the clutch cable at the transmission end
A good thing to do when installing the arm is adding the return spring over the cable too.
The spring is HD # 33201-79 if you can find one. I also listed dimensions and approximate spring pressure in the link below.
Also in the link is the link that FSG originally supplied.
33201-79 Spring (https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,63622.msg680567.html#msg680567)
:up: I used a hardware store spring and got great results. Having the dimensions is very helpful. Seeing a pic of one installed is too.
I run a Bandit with gray springs with two shims under each spring.
I also run a small geared box that mounts at the clutch perch & gives more mechanical advantage with no reduction in pressure plate travel. I can't remember what the unit is called but they came in black or chrome. It works like the old mousetrap setup, the gears run to an overcenter condition causing the cable pull to relax at full pull. It works great, even my arthritic hand can easily pull/hold that clutch setup with 2 fingers at times.
One thing I found with the Bandit was to make sure the pressure plate releases exactly the same all the way around. When I first installed it, it was dragging slightly going into neutral. I carefully redid it measuring the release with a dial indicator & now it clicks totally effortlessly into neutral at a dead stop.
~John
Does the spring/shim combo affect the lever engagement point? On my 14 trike I had one installed and engagement was pretty close to the grip. Had to replace it and engagement was almost all the way out. Setups done by different shops and different motor configurations (110 vs 117).
Quote from: NHBagger on January 20, 2022, 12:31:23 PMDoes the spring/shim combo affect the lever engagement point? On my 14 trike I had one installed and engagement was pretty close to the grip. Had to replace it and engagement was almost all the way out. Setups done by different shops and different motor configurations (110 vs 117).
How old was your cable and had you repositioned it before adjusting it? The spring / shim combination in the clutch pack should only effect drive line holding power and lever pull resistance. If the clutch did not have a Muller or other comparable device to lessen the lever pull, your clutch adjustment was wrong. It may be the pushrod adjusting screw was set too loose or the cable wasn't returning when adjusted for free play.
If it did have a Muller type device the the added spring in FSG's pic resolves any cable not returning and allows you to make a finer adjustment. The lever free play has to be very minimal (almost no existent) and the OEM setting may be too much free play causing what you describe. Typically the engagement point does begin sooner and more mid lever travel is more normal. The engagement is also slower and less like a light switch.
It had the original stock cable and 14 trikes had a hydraulic clutch setup. No add ons.
It was interesting the difference but also hard to get used to the difference after having the quick engagement. Felt like a newbie, revving and not moving!
Quote from: Ohio HD on January 17, 2022, 06:34:12 PMThe spring is HD # 33201-79 if you can find one.
Eastern M/C Parts has them, P/N A-33201-79 and V-Twin has them, P/N 13-0125
Quote from: SP33DY on January 20, 2022, 03:24:59 PMQuote from: Ohio HD on January 17, 2022, 06:34:12 PMThe spring is HD # 33201-79 if you can find one.
Eastern M/C Parts has them, P/N A-33201-79 and V-Twin has them, P/N 13-0125
Yes. :up:
I ordered some from Tedd a few years back. They were packaged from Eastern.
I think Eastern may be the last company that sells these.