The compensator on my '77 looks like hell. The points of cam are quite worn, as are the ramps on the sprocket. And the spring cup is purt near worn through. It looks like the whole mess has been functioning with no lubrication. Which, being a dry clutch, is not far from reality.
I have a complete compensator assembly from a early 90's Evo that looks to be in decent condition. Other than getting the sprocket aligned to the clutch correctly, are there any issues I need to be aware of before using this on a Shovelhead?
thanks,
JW
Modify the dry clutch system to closed wet clutch system?
I have already done that, but all that means is plugging up the engine oil lines to the primary, and running primary oil in there. Unlike the Evo and later, you can only put about 7oz of oil until it's at the bottom of the clutch basket. Even Evo's don't run oil above that else the plates will be in oil. So with the Shovel primary, there ain't much oil in there.
The Shovel comp is 70-84, and Evo/TC is 85 and later. Also, the Shovel alternator rotor has a hub on it, the Evo rotor is just flat sheet metal. You can adapt an Evo rotor to Shovel using spacers, and I am doing that. I'm in the process of measuring up all the comp components, will see if there is a way to make the Evo style work.
-JW
-JW
For what it's worth, I've been running a solid front sprocket with a Hayden tensioner on my 93"er since 04. Changed the springs in the tensioner once. If it was a bad thing I would think it would show evidence of that by now.
YMMV
You know, I've given that more than half a thought. If for no other reason, to check it out and see if there is anything about it I don't like. Can always put a comp back in, right? For that matter, both my Ironhead and Indian don't have compensators.
Hmmm....
-JW
For what my limited experience might be worth, I've run a 3 inch open BDL belt drive on my 88 inch Pan with a 4 speed in the 81 FXE frame since 1998. I haven't noticed it causing any problems yet. The comp might make for less vibration but if that bothered me I would have a BMW or Honda instead.
I ran a Fisher balancer which eliminated the comp since they first came out. That was over 25 years or longer with over 50000 Mi on it no problem.
Quote from: JW113 on February 09, 2022, 07:22:35 PMYou know, I've given that more than half a thought. If for no other reason, to check it out and see if there is anything about it I don't like. Can always put a comp back in, right? For that matter, both my Ironhead and Indian don't have compensators.
Hmmm....
-JW
I think back when I did it, the solid sprocket, locking washer and the nut came out to less than $30. Be sure to check your chain alignment if you choose that route.
I run an evo comp on my 76 fl.You have to shorten the nut and cut the threads deeper on the nut.Cost 35 bucks at a local machine shop.
So... I found a 24T Shovelhead compensator sprocket and cam on my parts shelf while looking for something else. Wow, don't recall where that came from. It was a little surface rusty on the sprocket, but I cleaned it up pretty good and just went ahead and used it. Path of least resistance you know, at least for now. Had a bear of a time getting the chain alignment set, must of had the primary drive on and off about 4 times. But finally got it to .008". The FSM does not do a very good job of describing how to measure sprocket alignment, if you ask me. I ended up making lots of parts measurements, and used my own method of aligning to the surface of the outer chain sprocket on comp and clutch basket. I'm amazed that somebody doesn't make a tool to make this an easy job. Hey, maybe a opportunity there? Hmm.
-JW
I use a tool from Motion Pro #08-0367. Simple and works great.
Easy peasy.
Step 1 measure from the edge of the inner primary to the alternator rotor, or shim.
Step 2 measure from the edge of the inner primary to the clutch hub pad.
Step 3 subtract step 2 from step 1
Step 4 look in the table, find the value from step 3. That's you shim needed.
(https://i.imgur.com/h4xyrW5.png)
All I did was take a straight edge across the gasket surface of the inner primary and measure to the chain as close as I can get to the sprockets with digital verniers, when I was done I was within .010. This way may be flawed but it's been set that way since 03. I've never seen any excessive wear indicating misalignment.
Quote from: Ohio HD on February 11, 2022, 11:09:15 PMEasy peasy.
Peasy, maybe. But where is the easy part about pulling clutch guts out, and then trying to measure the floor of the clutch basket when the side of the clutch basket extends far beyond the edge of the inner primary? HD seems to think the clutch basket has no outer rim.
I was thinking more like a tool that would fit snugly between the two sprockets on the clutch shell and comp, and then simply measure from inner primary to that. As Mark indicated, using the chain is the next best thing.
Reddog, I went to the Motion Pro site, that tool is no longer available. But it looks simple enough to make, maybe I'll give that a go. How exactly do you use it?
-JW
Using the chain will mean ensuring it is seated against one side or the other of both sprockets and adjusted snug enough to keep it there and hold the chain straight.
Quote from: JW113 on February 12, 2022, 09:31:52 AMPeasy, maybe. But where is the easy part about pulling clutch guts out, and then trying to measure the floor of the clutch basket when the side of the clutch basket extends far beyond the edge of the inner primary? HD seems to think the clutch basket has no outer rim.
-JW
Awww, come on. A washer over the spring retainer, take the three nuts off the clutch spring retainer, the entire pressure plate and springs come off, then slide the clutch basket off. I can have it off in five minutes. Reverse to install, adjust clutch. :nix:
(https://i.imgur.com/8M1dztb.jpeg)
Quote from: kd on February 12, 2022, 10:06:17 AMUsing the chain will mean ensuring it is seated against one side or the other of both sprockets and adjusted snug enough to keep it there and hold the chain straight.
:up: I have a spring loaded Hayden tensioner in there. It keeps it snug
Yes I know, not the hardest thing to do on a Shovelhead, but don't you agree not having to take anything apart to measure chain alignment is better than the alternative? And what about getting to the floor of clutch basket? First you need two "somethings" that are perfectly equal in length, then hold those AND a straight edge above the clutch basket, THEN hold a dial mic to measure. Sounds like a real PITA to me.
OK now I'm sold on that Motion Pro tool. THAT is exactly what I am talking about, and THAT looks easy peasy.
:SM:
-JW
Well I'm the first to say more than one way to break an egg. So no worries.
But the assembly has to come off anyway to change a shim, add a shim, etc. I always used a steel rule to measure from the flat bar across the primary to the clutch hub or alternator rotor. To use the OEM table you only need to measure within a 1/32". And that's close enough.
Carry on.
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on February 12, 2022, 10:55:19 AMQuote from: kd on February 12, 2022, 10:06:17 AMUsing the chain will mean ensuring it is seated against one side or the other of both sprockets and adjusted snug enough to keep it there and hold the chain straight.
:up: I have a spring loaded Hayden tensioner in there. It keeps it snug
I thought this went sooner but here it is a little late.
:up: I also believe the other criteria is to ensure the internal clearance between the sprocket(s) and the internal surface of the chain link(s) are both positioned to the same side so as to not be floating freely and cause the measurement to include any free play / clearance designed into the drive chain assembly for operational purposes.
Yes, you're 100% correct about that. So an easy way to measure it does not translate to an easy way to adjust it.
:SM:
cheers,
-JW