I've been noticing this leak/weep for some time, and I haven't been concerned about it. Judging by the pattern of the shiny residue, it seems to be coming from a base O-ring. I had a SE 110kit installed about two years ago, and it may be due to that work. I've read other posts for the same problem, and the consensus was to just keep an eye on it and ride. I just thought I would run it past the HTT experts for your opinion.Thanks.
My rear jug is weeping. It seems to stop once engine gets up to temp. But it's driving me nuts, so I'm getting everything rounded up to pull it apart. I'm bad OCD
Quote from: jrgreene1968 on April 08, 2019, 07:07:43 PM
My rear jug is weeping. It seems to stop once engine gets up to temp. But it's driving me nuts, so I'm getting everything rounded up to pull it apart. I'm bad OCD
Welcome to the OCD club. Any oil leakage drives me nuts.
I have weepage too, in the same place. I just clean it off as I'm not ready to pull it apart.
Check that case bolt between the jugs (shown in your pic above the serial #). Mine loosened up and was weeping and the wind effect will make it appear the rear jug base.
Quote from: smoserx1 on April 09, 2019, 01:47:34 PM
Check that case bolt between the jugs (shown in your pic above the serial #). Mine loosened up and was weeping and the wind effect will make it appear the rear jug base.
OK, I'll do that. Thanks a lot. :up:
If that is where it is, S&S has a nut with a seal that fixes it. It is fairly common.
If you go with the larger bore you usually end up with a non-stock center bolt. The 113" kit provided a little pissant bolt with rubber backed washers.
If your 110 kit has a through bolt, that is first thing I would check.
Second, check the primary to engine 0-ring
Quote from: smoserx1 on April 09, 2019, 01:47:34 PM
Check that case bolt between the jugs (shown in your pic above the serial #). Mine loosened up and was weeping and the wind effect will make it appear the rear jug base.
What's the torque spec on that bolt?
Quote from: Paniolo on April 09, 2019, 08:07:59 PM
Quote from: smoserx1 on April 09, 2019, 01:47:34 PM
Check that case bolt between the jugs (shown in your pic above the serial #). Mine loosened up and was weeping and the wind effect will make it appear the rear jug base.
What's the torque spec on that bolt?
15-19 Ft Lbs. If I remove just the top one, I'm concerned about the sequence of torquing the rest of the bolts. Since the top one is the first to be torqued when assembling the engine, I would be removing the first one. There may be a problem there. I just don't know. I will check into the S&S part if just re-torquing doesn't stop it. I'll need to check whether there is easy access to all the bolts in case I would need to loosen and re-torque all of them. The stage 4 kit didn't require splitting the cases, so if the bolt is loose, it loosened up from the factory.
Quote from: Jim Bronson on April 09, 2019, 09:15:22 PM
15-19 Ft Lbs.
Since there's no nut on the other end of that bolt, just tighten it down to 15-19 ft pounds. I assume that bolt goes into a threaded hole in the case on the other side.
Quote from: Paniolo on April 10, 2019, 07:09:24 AM
Quote from: Jim Bronson on April 09, 2019, 09:15:22 PM
15-19 Ft Lbs.
Since there's no nut on the other end of that bolt, just tighten it down to 15-19 ft pounds. I assume that bolt goes into a threaded hole in the case on the other side.
Yes, I'll probably just need to remove one end of the shifter linkage to get clear access.
If the 110 kit you have uses the drop-in cylinders with no case boring tightening that top bolt will not be a big deal and it's most likely not the source of your leak. I would suspect the primary to engine seal, or the cylinder base o-rings.
Last night I had not seen the picture, but looking at it now can see it's the factory bolt, which is installed in a blind hole on a factory case. So any weepage would be very minimal even if the bolt is loose.
Quote from: rageglide on April 10, 2019, 02:34:22 PM
If the 110 kit you have uses the drop-in cylinders with no case boring tightening that top bolt will not be a big deal and it's most likely not the source of your leak. I would suspect the primary to engine seal, or the cylinder base o-rings.
Last night I had not seen the picture, but looking at it now can see it's the factory bolt, which is installed in a blind hole on a factory case. So any weepage would be very minimal even if the bolt is loose.
No case boring was required. I should mention that there's just a tiny bit of oil on the right side, on the flat area between the lifter blocks. It may have been blown there from the left side. There does seem to be an accumulation around the case bolt head. The photo doesn't show it very well. I'll tighten the bolt just for grins.
Mines also damp on lifter side, but it's definately my base o ring :banghead:
That's ok though.. gives me an excuse to tear it apart and add more power while I'm at it
Unless it starts leaking badly, I won't be tearing it apart again. I have all the power I need, and it runs great. Plus I don't have the skills for the job.
That sounds like a pretty good idea, not worth a tear down to deal with o-rings unless it becomes a gusher. Remember oil will travel toward the primary side when you're parked on the sidestand and the first place it will begin to accumulate is around the bolt head.
Quote from: Jim Bronson link=topic=108481.msg1291583#msg1291583
Yes, I'll probably just need to remove one end of the shifter linkage to get clear access.
/quote]
I torqued mine today. It was not very loose, but I did feel it tighten a hair before the torque wrench clicked.
Ride it, and check it.
Re: the case bolt vs. O-ring discussion, I looked around at other similar leak topics, and the photos all show the leaks happening at the same location - between the cylinders in the area of the bolt (the highest point). This means that if the leak is from O-rings, then all the posted leaks are from exactly the same location on the rings. That's quite a coincidence. I'm far from an expert on the subject, but it seems some of them would leak in other places on the circumference of the ring, especially if the leak was caused by a damaged or defective ring. Just some bedtime musing ....
Well the o-rings do and will eventually leak. When it happened to me about 3 years ago it looked like the rear jug at the base. The bike already has 178000 miles on it so I did the top end and made the bike from an 88 to a 95. Anyway the original o-rings were black and the replacement ones were a pale pink color. After it was back together I noticed I still had the leak (but much less). That is when I discovered the loose case bolt (and mine was very loose). I tightened it up and no more leak. I really think my leak was a combination of both the bolt and rear o-ring but will never know for sure. Some of the other case bolts were a little loose as well and I have since tightened them. I believe you have to have the inner primary off to get to one or two of them. Anyway, sounds like your case bolt was tight enough. Clean up the residue and keep an eye on it.
A few drops really spread out and look like a lot , I use some brake cleaner to clean it off and wait until riding season is over or it starts to leave a puddle
It's nowhere near bad enough to dribble on the ground. Yeah oil spreads out a lot, especially on the black rough finish of the case, which acts like a sponge. I'm guessing it leaks one or two drops, and I ride often. It just bugs the s**t out of me.
I pulled the case bolt this morning, and it is bone dry. It was worth a try anyway.
Mine never leaked a drop till the bike set for 8-10 months from back surgery. I ordered the oem O rings that OhioHD reccomended, and all the gaskets etc.. but the best part is it's gonna get new cams and new heads :SM:
I thought I had crank runout issues, but found my indicator fubared, so that parts good
:up:
Quote from: jrgreene1968 on April 13, 2019, 01:19:12 PM
Mine never leaked a drop till the bike set for 8-10 months from back surgery. I ordered the oem O rings that OhioHD reccomended, and all the gaskets etc.. but the best part is it's gonna get new cams and new heads :SM:
I thought I had crank runout issues, but found my indicator fubared, so that parts good
:up:
I'll try to find out exactly where it is leaking from and take it from there.
Well I was cleaning out the garage today and ran across an unopened tube of Genuine Harley Davidson High Performance Sealant, Gray. Is it worth running a thin bead around the cylinder base where it meets the case? Is there enough pressure to blow a hole in the sealant? I'd guess it is nothing but some flavor of RTV, but I remember using RTV in the navy to seal all sorts of things.
Don't bother. You will end up with a bigger mess than the oil seepage! You will have RTV smeared all over, and a oil leak!
I can mask the seam with painter's tape, so I can apply the sealant without making a mess, but unless there's a good chance it will work, I'll forget it.
I have two thoughts of that & neither is success.
The oil will still weep thru the seal or IF the seal holds, the oil will back up & weep around the part of the base that you can't access to seal. :doh:
Quote from: koko3052 on April 24, 2019, 05:31:31 AM
I have two thoughts of that & neither is success.
The oil will still weep thru the seal or IF the seal holds, the oil will back up & weep around the part of the base that you can't access to seal. :doh:
Yep.. sounds messy to.
I pulled mine apart last night, o ring wasn't hard, but the jug had hardly any resistance when pushing it into crankcase. Almost like the o ring was just to thin.
I'm redoing my whole top end while apart, but I'm going back with genuine HD gaskets and seals everywhere but the head gaskets
Quote from: koko3052 on April 24, 2019, 05:31:31 AM
I have two thoughts of that & neither is success.
The oil will still weep thru the seal or IF the seal holds, the oil will back up & weep around the part of the base that you can't access to seal. :doh:
I didn't think about that. I can't possibly apply sealant to the areas between the cylinders, and I think there is some leakage from there. It would probably be a waste of time. :emsad:
Quote from: Jim Bronson on April 24, 2019, 08:23:29 AM
Quote from: koko3052 on April 24, 2019, 05:31:31 AM
I have two thoughts of that & neither is success.
The oil will still weep thru the seal or IF the seal holds, the oil will back up & weep around the part of the base that you can't access to seal. :doh:
I didn't think about that. I can't possibly apply sealant to the areas between the cylinders, and I think there is some leakage from there. It would probably be a waste of time. :emsad:
Always some merit to different points of view. :wink:
You bet.
I originally posted this in the wrong thread but here's where it belongs.
It sounds like this is settled but I have one more suggestion. There was a thread here over a year ago about sealing I think panhead case halves that were seeping. I seem to remember it was with a type of Loctite made fore sealing cracks. IIRC it was thin and crept into the seam (after cleaning with solvent) and was effective. It may be an option to give you some time to plan a repair or maybe a little build up. I think rababos contributed his experience with it so hopefully he will see this and chime in. He may need a PM to make him aware of this thread. Orrrr .... I may be wrong on the final outcome of that conversation.
After a short search here's one thread,
https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=88696.msg1012969#msg1012969
Here's another,
https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=106528.msg1264151#msg1264151
After posting this in the other thread a member offered the name of the product as Glyptal
There is a green colored Loctite or Permatex that is made for wicking that I used a long time ago to try to stop some hard to get at bolts from loosening...can't remember if it worked. :banghead:
That's Loctite 290. If it is thin enough to apply with a needle oiler, it may be worth a try.
I think ensuring it is oil contaminate free will be important. The 2 threads I attached do discuss this and methods to accomplish it. If it doesn't work, you are where you are now. If it does, it'll buy you some time but I wouldn't consider it to be a permanent fix.
Thanks for the threads. The wicking feature of Loctite 290 is appealing. It can withstand temps up to 300 F, and I don't know if that's good enough. As you mentioned, there's also the problem of cleaning the area between the cylinders. Maybe it is worth a try.
The threads I posted have descriptions from previous users on how they cleaned the work area before applying the sealer. :wink:
Quote from: kd on April 25, 2019, 05:22:28 PM
The threads I posted have descriptions from previous users on how they cleaned the work area before applying the sealer. :wink:
I don't think those methods will work very well between the cylinders. I'm thinking cut a clean shop rag into strips, soak in a solvent of some sort, and run it through the area in one direction only. Repeat the process a few times with new strips until they come out clean. Then figure out what product to use. There are basically two types:
either an RTV-based sealant like Loctite 518 or use Loctite 290 wicking threadlocker. The RTV-based products would stay on the outside of the seam and possibly do the trick, but I like the 290 better, since it supposedly creeps in between the gap and then hardens. Either way, it wouldn't be a big or expensive job to try. Thanks!
Flex seal as seen on TV . Clean and apply . Worth a shot.
I think I would try warming it up (heat gun or hair dryer) shoot brake cleaner or something similar with a tube nozzle and hit it with compressed air and repeat. Then use the Loctite prep solvent intended to degrease and prep for Loctite products. If you have to buy a small aerosol can you will use anything remaining in the future (like when you tear it down to fix it later)
Another common leak area is the stator grommet. I tried RTV there once, lasted a few days at best. I would forget about it till you are ready to fix it right. It is a fairly big job for a do it yourselfer but make sure you use the best o-rings down there you can get. I would use Harley parts here.
From the spec sheet, it looks like the Loctite prep stuff is mostly just acetone in a spray can.
BTW how many shop hours would it take to replace the o-rings?
Exactly one weekend and 3 6-packs of beer.
-JW
Quote from: JW113 on April 26, 2019, 09:00:52 AM
Exactly one weekend and 3 6-packs of beer.
-JW
... and more skill than I have. :teeth:
I know my skill limitations, and when to pay the man. On that one, I pay the man.
Quote from: Hossamania on April 26, 2019, 11:38:37 AM
I know my skill limitations, and when to pay the man. On that one, I pay the man.
That's my thinking, and if you botch a job and have to take it to a shop to finish it, you'll be on their s**t list.
Cha-ching!
Jim, did you try to get the shop to warranty it?
Quote from: Ohio HD on April 26, 2019, 04:11:34 PM
Jim, did you try to get the shop to warranty it?
I'll be taking it in for a new tire in a few weeks, so I'll ask them about it then. The same shop installed my stage 4 kit about two years ago, and I think they reused the base o-rings. I didn't think about it or I would have asked them to replace them.
No disrespect, but do you let it warm up fully before you get on it? (you aren't one of those party with your buds and walk out and fire the bike up and wank on it just to hear the noise kinda guys. right :-D )
There's a term for that type of rider, but I won't use it here, since this is a civilized forum :wink:. I always warm it up for 2-3 minutes at idle before I putt-putt out of my neighborhood.
:up: :beer:
Quote from: rageglide on April 26, 2019, 08:46:22 PM
No disrespect, but do you let it warm up fully before you get on it? (you aren't one of those party with your buds and walk out and fire the bike up and wank on it just to hear the noise kinda guys. right :-D )
I know some guys that do this.. and those same guys are at the redlight steadily revving there motors.. drives me freakin crazy
I don't wank on it right after a cold start, but I don't let it idle for two mins. I try to be respectful of my neighbors. I start the bike, as soon as the oil pressure comes up I ride slowly away. That should be okay.
Quote from: Paniolo on April 27, 2019, 12:54:15 PM
I don't wank on it right after a cold start, but I don't let it idle for two mins. I try to be respectful of my neighbors. I start the bike, as soon as the oil pressure comes up I ride slowly away. That should be okay.
Should be fine. I only warm it up as I described because that's what my tuner recommended.
I only mentioned the cold engine and rappin it cuz that kills base gaskets on evo's and it can cause some weepage on a twin cam. I know a couple guys who will fire up a bike and immediately start jackin the throttle big time...
I read in the SM that if a tech applies too much oil on the base o-rings during engine assembly, it can cause oil weep that can be mistaken for a leak. I would think it would soon dry up and stop weeping though.
Sure, but two years ago? And how many miles?
If it was too much assembly oil it would be there from the start, and probably gone by now, unless you haven't ridden it in two years.
Yeah it can't be the cause now.
Lastly,
Back when Syn3 first came out, a lot of TC owners who switched complained of weeps and leaks. The consensus at the time was that due to the synthetic make up of the oil and it's extra penetrative and lubricative properties, it was easier to seek out thinner gasket areas and make it's way through. Some of those who switched back to regular dino oil reported the weeping stopped.
Has anyone with a weep tried switching back to dino oil, and if so did the leaks stop?
Interesting twist.
When I came back from my Arizona run, the weeping had soiled the base and sides of the engine case. Once again not a leak, but a weep.
So I took to cleaning it with a new toothbrush and WD40. I would spray the WD on the stain and along the base, and brush it. Then I wiped it off with a clean rag. I have been unable to get ALL of the stain out, so if anyone has an idea how to clean a silver engine please let me know.
Interestingly the engine has not wiped since. I have checked the area after daily rides, and it is not weeping. I wonder if the WD40 had something to do with it.
Are you sure it's not weeping from the air cleaner and blowing down and around?
Quote from: Hossamania on June 02, 2019, 10:23:10 AM
Are you sure it's not weeping from the air cleaner and blowing down and around?
No Hoss, it's coming from the base area, and between the cylinders.
Quote from: Paniolo on June 02, 2019, 10:38:31 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on June 02, 2019, 10:23:10 AM
Are you sure it's not weeping from the air cleaner and blowing down and around?
No Hoss, it's coming from the base area, and between the cylinders.
Copy.