Installing a secondary hidden kill switch

[klammer76]

I want to install a hidden kill switch on my 2002 FLHTCi. I have a location in mind but am looking for reccomendations/ideas as to tapping into the circuit. My idea was to tap into the negative side of the stock run/off switch. Looking at the schematic, I'm having a hard time figuring out the negative side. A friend installed one years ago on his carbed 2000 Standard but I can't remember how he did it (plus, he is an electrical guru).

Anyone done this? Ideas?

Thanks,
klammer

[MikeL]

Reroute the green wire off the starter solenoid through your hidden switch. It wont crank over, so if they want to take it they will have to push it to get it started.

                                                                                                    MIKE

[Ohio HD]

If I were to add a switch, I'd interrupt the fuel pump. It's not going anywhere without that.

[calif phil]

If I were to add a switch, I'd interrupt the fuel pump. It's not going anywhere without that.

This or the coil wiring.

[Toomuchstuff]

I think grounding the negative side of the coil is how we used to do it

[klammer76]

I thought about the coil, maybe that is the easiest? My reason for using the run/off switch circuit was it would kill everything. When the bike was carbed, turning the bike over would not be an issue with the coil cut off. With it being efi I was concerned that having the starter turn the motor over with the fuel pump actuated would pump a lot of fuel into the cylinders? Granted, most of these thefts where these azzhats are breaking the switch, firing up and riding away would probably give up quickly if the bike didn't fire up?

If running the ground through a switch, a regular small switch should be fine correct (15 amp)?

I assume the fuel pump idea would be the same? Those wires are easy to access.

I'm probably over thinking this as usual.

[klammer76]

Reroute the green wire off the starter solenoid through your hidden switch. It wont crank over, so if they want to take it they will have to push it to get it started.

                                                                                                    MIKE

MIKE,

I have a push button also on my starter. Would your idea still work with that in place?

[smoserx1]

I have a push button also on my starter. Would your idea still work with that in place?

No, the bike would still start if the button was pressed.  I had to fix a short in this area once so it is somewhat familiar.  Look at the schematic for your year for the right hand control and notice it will show the start switch and the off/run (kill switch).  Notice the off/run (kill switch) uses a GY (grey I guess) wire and it has a short jumper that goes into the start switch.  That is why if your kill switch is off your starter button also won't work (it won't get any electricity).  Now trace that GY wire and you see it goes into the ignition fuse and on the other side of the fuse the wire is R/BK.  That wire will branch out but one node of it will go to the key switch/ignition relay.  That relay is under the fairing on the right side (on mine at least) and is the same as the relays that operate the brake light and starter solenoid.  Anyway if you sever this gray wire and install your hidden switch so it makes or breaks your cut, it will serve your purpose.  If your hidden switch is in the open position the coil will not receive any electricity.  The starter button would still operate as your cut would be downstream of the jumper.  As a side note these wires are all positive, the negative side is the frame.

[Jim Bronson]

Where do you plan on using the switch - at home, at your work, on the road, etc? The reason I ask is because pro thieves often just lift bikes into a van, and they don't care whether they have security. If you park outside at home, you can install a chain secured to a sturdy anchor embedded in cement. You can probably get ideas on youtube.

[klammer76]

I have a push button also on my starter. Would your idea still work with that in place?

No, the bike would still start if the button was pressed.  I had to fix a short in this area once so it is somewhat familiar.  Look at the schematic for your year for the right hand control and notice it will show the start switch and the off/run (kill switch).  Notice the off/run (kill switch) uses a GY (grey I guess) wire and it has a short jumper that goes into the start switch.  That is why if your kill switch is off your starter button also won't work (it won't get any electricity).  Now trace that GY wire and you see it goes into the ignition fuse and on the other side of the fuse the wire is R/BK.  That wire will branch out but one node of it will go to the key switch/ignition relay.  That relay is under the fairing on the right side (on mine at least) and is the same as the relays that operate the brake light and starter solenoid.  Anyway if you sever this gray wire and install your hidden switch so it makes or breaks your cut, it will serve your purpose.  If your hidden switch is in the open position the coil will not receive any electricity.  The starter button would still operate as your cut would be downstream of the jumper.  As a side note these wires are all positive, the negative side is the frame.

You are exactly right on the wire colors and routing. I traced it last night. The gray wire does branch off as does the w/bk wire. so it looks like cutting power to the coil would be the way to go? Starter could still turn with the push button but no fire due to coil disabled. Thanks for the info on both being hot wires. I couldn't find a ground.

[klammer76]

Where do you plan on using the switch - at home, at your work, on the road, etc? The reason I ask is because pro thieves often just lift bikes into a van, and they don't care whether they have security. If you park outside at home, you can install a chain secured to a sturdy anchor embedded in cement. You can probably get ideas on youtube.

On the road and at events. I have never had a problem but after hearing about the bike thefts at Daytona this year it got me thinking. Most from what I heard were just driven off while owners were inside bar or restaurant. Owners claimed they were fork locked etc. It's just some insurance.

[FSG]

I'd short out the crank position sensor

[86fxwg]

Correct me if im wrong.....Problem with killing the coil is if it cranks over there flooding the cylinders with fuel.
Seen a guy screwing around with his stereo 7 flipping ignition on & off & hydro locked the engine. 0 deck & 030 HG dont play well with liquids.


I'D kill the pump or the crank sensor.

86

[PoorUB]

Umm, not buying that. The injectors don't spray until the engine cranks. You can turn the ignition switch off and on 1,000 times and not get any fuel.

[86fxwg]

Umm, not buying that. The injectors don't spray until the engine cranks. You can turn the ignition switch off and on 1,000 times and not get any fuel.

Stand corrected. Was under impression as soon as key was switched on there was a shot off fuel.

86

[Hossamania]

Umm, not buying that. The injectors don't spray until the engine cranks. You can turn the ignition switch off and on 1,000 times and not get any fuel.

Stand corrected. Was under impression as soon as key was switched on there was a shot off fuel.

86

His problem may have been a leaky injector that was pushing fuel every time the pump cycled.

[Paniolo]

I've often thought about a remote controlled kill switch, something that could be activated with a fob. That way if someone comes and bike jacks you at gun point, you can get off the bike and seek cover and concealment if available. Then press and hold two buttons on the fob killing the bike in the middle of the road. The thief will get frustrated and flee. Then just walk over to the bike, reset it and ride off.

[kd]

      ....  and it will activate the device in the seat that produces pain by electric shock or an explosive device.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKkV1Z5zzaE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX9wHZSRTl0

[Paniolo]

     ....  and it will activate the device in the seat that produces pain by electric shock or an explosive device.   

Actually, that's a version of the practical joke. When stopped for gas, discreetly turn on your buddies heated seat and grips. 3 mins back on the road and he'll be dancing,...LOL!!!

[rigidthumper]

I'd put the switch inline with the ground wire for the ECM (black wire running from the right ground stud in front of battery to pin 8 of connector 8 ) . This will kill everything controlled by the ECM.  Maybe add a second switch inline with the ground wire for the key switch ignition relay (black wire running from the left ground stud in front of battery to connector 126B ( relay plug ).

[Coyote]

I don't think it's a good idea to remove the ground from the ECM as there are still current paths through the ECM via its various inputs and outputs that could damage it without a ground. Better to pick on something else, IMO.

[MikeL]

How about one of those hardened disc brake clamps with the plastic "remember to disconnect me" or I will destroy my fender.
With this they would have to burn it off, remove the front tire assembly or pick the bike up and carry it away, if they really wanted it.
Also insuring for theft.


                                                                                                        MIKE

[kd]

2 lengths of pipe and a van or truck and it's gone no matter what.  Chain a couple together or to something significant usually slows them down.

[klammer76]

2 lengths of pipe and a van or truck and it's gone no matter what.  Chain a couple together or to something significant usually slows them down.

Correct, but I'm talking about when parked on the street or at a bar/restaurant etc. People around I think the 4 guys and two pipes would get some attention. Motel parking is another story.

Unfortunately, deadly physical force is not justified for the protection of personal property in any state that I am aware of. 

[PoorUB]

I remember seeing a video, four guys and a plain white van. In broad daylight at a shopping  center, pulled up to a motorcycle, opened  the rear doors and tossed it in and left. The guy videoing it just caught them loading the motorcycle. It didn't take 15 seconds. People all over, my bet is nobody saw anything or thought anything about it.

Pretty sure the guys had to be pros, just driving around looking for certain motorcycles.

[klammer76]

I remember seeing a video, four guys and a plain white van. In broad daylight at a shopping  center, pulled up to a motorcycle, opened  the rear doors and tossed it in and left. The guy videoing it just caught them loading the motorcycle. It didn't take 15 seconds. People all over, my bet is nobody saw anything or thought anything about it.

Pretty sure the guys had to be pros, just driving around looking for certain motorcycles.

It's crazy

[Ohio HD]

My solution has always been to avoid the areas that are prone to this type of crime. I was never much interested in large motorcycle events.

Growing up with my friends I saw more crazy than the general public displays.   

[Scotty]

The injectors are fired by the ECM by giving them a ground signal so to me a switch that stops the power to the injectors won't interfere with the ECM and fuel pump and everything else will run as normal.
It's the same power wire the powers the coil so easy to branch off from the injectors and run though a switch.

[doctorevil]

Nine times out of ten a bike is never started when it is stolen. So what good is a kill switch. That is why you pay for insurance.

[Hossamania]

Does your bike have a security system now? If so, and it is set, and the ignition locked, I don't see that a secondary kill switch is going to do much to stop a thief. If no security system present, then I can see the benefit of a hidden switch. Most bikes that are ridden away are unlocked without the security being set.
The majority are just picked up and thrown into a van, as mentioned.

[88b]

I'd go fuel pump or ignition coil

[Paniolo]

Does your bike have a security system now? If so, and it is set, and the ignition locked, I don't see that a secondary kill switch is going to do much to stop a thief. If no security system present, then I can see the benefit of a hidden switch. Most bikes that are ridden away are unlocked without the security being set.
The majority are just picked up and thrown into a van, as mentioned.

I think some sort of tracking device should me considered. That way there is a chance of getting it back.

[kd]

I have Lo/Jack.  Guaranteed recovery.

[Paniolo]

I have Lo/Jack.  Guaranteed recovery.

Can you track it on your own?

[kd]

Nope.  They get an alert when the bike leaves (fob), they track it and notify the police where it is like OnStar.

https://www.lojack.com/

[Paniolo]

I used to have TeleTrac on my '01. It provided me with live tracking by phone. It might be better now.

[cheech]

I remember seeing a video, four guys and a plain white van. In broad daylight at a shopping  center, pulled up to a motorcycle, opened  the rear doors and tossed it in and left. The guy videoing it just caught them loading the motorcycle. It didn't take 15 seconds. People all over, my bet is nobody saw anything or thought anything about it.

Pretty sure the guys had to be pros, just driving around looking for certain motorcycles.

Nine times out of ten a bike is never started when it is stolen. So what good is a kill switch. That is why you pay for insurance.

Agree with these quotes.  So if it makes ya feel good do it, but in the end meaningless for reasons listed above.
Tracking is probably the best idea in this day in age.

[screem]

I am on the page, that kill switch wont do much.... but if it makes you feel good, go for it... the pros just load em up and go.
  One of my old F-250 pickups left outside the shop, had an issue , that if it wasnt started every couple weeks or the battery would go dead from the GPS device we use in all our trucks. We went for a very simple solution off a knife switch on the positive terminal of the battery, pop the hood, throw the switch and if the truck wasnt used for a month or two, throw the lever back on the battery and it would start... Older F-250's are stolen all the time down here in South Florida, they put them in a container and ship them to Central America.
the door lock and ignition switch has been popped a couple times over the last year, but the truck stays, cause they cant figure out the knife switch

[klammer76]

Nine times out of ten a bike is never started when it is stolen. So what good is a kill switch. That is why you pay for insurance.

And what do you base this statement on?

As I mentioned, the kill switch is for when parked at a restaurant/bar etc. Motel parking it is secured. My bike is a 2002. It is insured but insurance isn't going to do dick for me for what I have in it and it's age.

[klammer76]

Got the info I was looking for. Thanks.

[98fxstc]

here is another one for you klammer

I have never got around to enabling, but I got a tilt sensor with a siren some time ago and fitted it under the rear fender.
It is used in conjunction with a on/off switch fitted in an appropriate location.
Adjust the angle of the tilt, so sensor is not armed on the sidestand.
When the bike is stood up the alarm goes off unless you disable it first.

Not sure how many will load your bike into a pick-up or van without standing it up.
Problem is you may find your bike laying on the ground with the van heading off into the distance.

[doctorevil]

I am in so cal one of my customers is a geico insurance fraud investigator. He states california and nevada have the most fraud claims in the USA. He does followup on theft claims. The majority are recorded on video. I would say his expertise is very credible.

[doctorevil]

Klammer if your insurance pays crap, contact Foremost insurance division of farmers ins. I have $8000 on a 02 Defender and $10000 on a 03 T sport.

[crock]

Buddy lost hi and when they found t ( stripped with about 20 other bikes ) they ha a panel van that had a boom/hoist in the back. Open the back doors pick it up and slide it inside

[ThumperDeuce]

How about routing the primary through the seat pan?