Darkhorse Crankworks has released a motor sprocket to replace the OEM Twin Cam and M8 compensaters. I really can't wait to hear more about them. I think John kept this from release all these years because he cares about supplying a durable product.
Stock 34 and a 32 tooth.
Darkhorse (https://www.facebook.com/1499160016965704/photos/a.1514050005476705/2587132768168418/?type=3&theater/)
This photo is from their FB site.
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Interesting. It looks like a compromise in travel between a full ramp SE or older version and a solid sprocket. It also appears to be a simple machine production compared to the ramp style. Four extra fasteners to be careful with but I'm betting John found a way to put plenty of miles on a few with big engines with aggressive use.
There was talk a while back about a love-joy jaw style coupling out there when the compensaver was in trials. I wonder if this is what it turned into. It's more of a cush drive than compensator.
I know John told me years ago he wouldn't release their design until he had it right to where it should have no issues to the buyer. I wanted one to try back then...but I couldn't talk him into it. He said the cushioning material he was using at the time he wasn't completely satisfied with. He would continuing his testing to find the right one that would withstand all the different fluids guys run in the primary and be able to withstand the heat and abuse it would need to take. I'm glad to see this out. It's a great option to you now if you have to go into the primary for any reason.
Interesting, I would have complete confidence in trying one.
Good job John. Love it when someone does the R&D the right way, rather then putting it out into the market and expecting it to work well, and most times fail.
Ron
$500 and will need rotor on earlier models!
Guys,
A lot of 2 steps forward, then 1 back, then repeat with this product development, but this spring we had a large breakthrough with cushion composition and volume that resolved a issues we were having. Also found that on some models it would induce a bit more clutch pack noise and a Rekluse clutch resolved that on my bike. I was fearful people would install with no remedy for any potential noise issue.
We were not going to be satisfied until we could put 1 in a bike and you would forget it is installed (except NOT hearing clunk when you drop into 1st gear and the knocking sound you get with a wearing OEM compensator at low RPM).
I am most impressed with the -2 (32T sprocket) as it really works well for bikes that are not designated touring bikes doing 100MPH everywhere. We have one in Tyger's bike and the whole bike is smooth and snappy, you can use 6th gear down to 60MPH and again forget it is installed!
Hope we can meet everyone's demands moving forward, we have a limited amount produced currently as we have 3 models. A 32T & 34T for TwinCams and 34T for M8's. We have in motors from stock applications to 124's at a conservative 135 RWHP with great feedback. We have some longevity testing ongoing in southern states trying to determine longevity of cushions. We are currently at 20k on a number of them with out degrading of cushions which is a great sign. Either way, cushions are inexpensive to change and you do not have to pull the unit to replace, just pull the primary cover and faceplate and relplace.
Hope you all get an opportunity to try, please let me know your thoughts if you do!
John E Dahmer - Darkhorse Crankworks GM
john@darkhorsecrankworks.com
And I just happen to have my primary apart at the moment.
rebuild-able via replacement cushions and I guess if you wanted to at some stage you could go with SOLID cushions
I doubt we would ever entertain "solid" cushions FSG, There is actually a pre-load on cushions so there is no slack in the unit, I would assume it would be noisy with solids and act like a solid sprocket? We utilize 2 different durameter cushions to progressively absorb both engine pulse and torque along with smoothing out starting process load.
A guy would think this primary sprocket and all the dynamics that go with it would be easy, well, after really 5+ years I will say, not so much! And we are still developing as I know when they get out into the greater field there will be more development and fine tuning.
The great thing though, it is "tuneable" by the durometer and volume of cushions used.
The overall integrity of the Man O-War Motorsprocket will not fail or fracture, that we truly believe, it will take well over 250 RWHP to even start testing its extreme durability as far as mechanical failures.
Quote from: HighLiner on March 03, 2020, 08:15:02 PM
And I just happen to have my primary apart at the moment.
Me too....
Even though I am in the process of replacing the spring pack in the '09 SG I'm thinking I could try one in the SG and upgrade the stock compensator in the '11 Triglide.
Sounds reasonable to me!!
Quote from: Tireman on March 04, 2020, 08:10:31 AM
Quote from: HighLiner on March 03, 2020, 08:15:02 PM
And I just happen to have my primary apart at the moment.
Me too....
Even though I am in the process of replacing the spring pack in the '09 SG I'm thinking I could try one in the SG and upgrade the stock compensator in the '11 Triglide.
Sounds reasonable to me!!
:chop:
Got mine ordered!
:up: tks John
I got to see, touch, and feel their new comp at bikeweek. It surely looks well thought out and engineered
Quote from: misfitJason on March 12, 2020, 04:10:49 AM
I got to see, touch, and feel their new comp at bikeweek. It surely looks well thought out and engineered
Dang, I missed that. Where are they set up?
I checked them out at "Bike Week". Looks like the real deal. 2 different ratios available 34T and 32T, a thicker chain adjuster pad for the 32T sprocket(extra). rebuildable as well. Retail $489.95
John
Any plans for other tooth counts on M8 bikes?
Looking forward to try either way!
I snagged a few more pics from the DH FB site, hopefully John doesn't mind. I think it's a keen design. I see one in my future on my 124" to try out.
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[attach=1]
[attach=2]
Quote from: IronButt70 on March 12, 2020, 07:28:12 AM
Quote from: misfitJason on March 12, 2020, 04:10:49 AM
I got to see, touch, and feel their new comp at bikeweek. It surely looks well thought out and engineered
Dang, I missed that. Where are they set up?
At destination Daytona
Quote from: misfitJason on March 12, 2020, 06:16:35 PM
Quote from: IronButt70 on March 12, 2020, 07:28:12 AM
Quote from: misfitJason on March 12, 2020, 04:10:49 AM
I got to see, touch, and feel their new comp at bikeweek. It surely looks well thought out and engineered
Dang, I missed that. Where are they set up?
At destination Daytona
I was there and somehow managed to miss them. Thanks. Going again tomorrow.
Quote from: IronButt70 on March 12, 2020, 06:51:11 PM
Quote from: misfitJason on March 12, 2020, 06:16:35 PM
Quote from: IronButt70 on March 12, 2020, 07:28:12 AM
Quote from: misfitJason on March 12, 2020, 04:10:49 AM
I got to see, touch, and feel their new comp at bikeweek. It surely looks well thought out and engineered
Dang, I missed that. Where are they set up?
At destination Daytona
I was there and somehow managed to miss them. Thanks. Going again tomorrow.
Stopped by today. Must have walked right past them 5 times. Anyway I looked at that new compensator replacement and was quite impressed. Guy I talked to said the cushion disks should last at least 20k miles and probably much more. Replacements will run about $40. Good stuff.
it will be my next comp...for sure!
...and John...thanks for all the R&D you did. :up:
Quote from: No Cents on March 13, 2020, 05:37:45 PM
it will be my next comp...for sure!
...and John...thanks for all the R&D you did. :up:
Would love to install one but I still have 2 more years on my extended warranty and since I just had some warranty drive train work done I can't take a chance some future warranty work might be denied if I install one no matters how much better I think it will be.
Glad to see finally out there and we will be trying a few 32T in M8s, biggest item there is being able to adjust primary chain for 32 in a M8.
M8 auto primary chain adjuster is different to allow factory to assemble adjuster on inner primary prior to assembly in chassis. It is shorter and the adjuster we have been testing does not fit on M8.
Little known fact - M8 OEM primary adjuster has more cushion to it that TCs as engineering found with the additional power developed in M8s it would ratchet up due to additional chain slack on adjustment side.
One of the coolest things though? The 34T has been so well received in M8s and will handle the power (Gary Williams of Big Bore Bikes II has one in a 200RWHP bike currently and loves it!), but in all honesty the M8s were not even on our radar screen when we started developing this piece.
Damn it.....!!!
I just saw this... I have my primary apart to put in a Vulcan 32 tooth solid engine sprocket in my S&S 124" Bagger....
I am seriously considering a change in course, and using this compensator instead... sounds like the best of both worlds..
I bought the Vulcan 32 tooth engine sprocket kit, that comes with different aftermarket primary chain tensioner, instead of a shoe added to the OEM tensioner.... I suspect it's not a total loss... as I could still use the aftermarket tensioner instead of a shoe....
What to do.... what to do... I guess it's only money... right... :SM:
Please provide us with a proper review after you install the DH unit. :chop:
Dark horse does the extra cushion in the M8 slack adjuster have anything to do with new clutch design ? It seems very intolerant to cold downshifts once primary is warm doesn't chirp as bad.
I couldn't help myself...I ordered a 32 tooth Man-O-War comp today. I figured I'd put my stimulas money to good use. :hyst:
Quote from: No Cents on April 17, 2020, 03:19:44 PM
I couldn't help myself...I ordered a 32 tooth Man-O-War comp today. I figured I'd put my stimulas money to good use. :hyst:
:up: :hyst:
Quote from: Darkhorse on March 02, 2020, 09:13:40 AM
Guys,
A lot of 2 steps forward, then 1 back, then repeat with this product development, but this spring we had a large breakthrough with cushion composition and volume that resolved a issues we were having. Also found that on some models it would induce a bit more clutch pack noise and a Rekluse clutch resolved that on my bike. I was fearful people would install with no remedy for any potential noise issue.
We were not going to be satisfied until we could put 1 in a bike and you would forget it is installed (except NOT hearing clunk when you drop into 1st gear and the knocking sound you get with a wearing OEM compensator at low RPM).
I am most impressed with the -2 (32T sprocket) as it really works well for bikes that are not designated touring bikes doing 100MPH everywhere. We have one in Tyger's bike and the whole bike is smooth and snappy, you can use 6th gear down to 60MPH and again forget it is installed!
Hope we can meet everyone's demands moving forward, we have a limited amount produced currently as we have 3 models. A 32T & 34T for TwinCams and 34T for M8's. We have in motors from stock applications to 124's at a conservative 135 RWHP with great feedback. We have some longevity testing ongoing in southern states trying to determine longevity of cushions. We are currently at 20k on a number of them with out degrading of cushions which is a great sign. Either way, cushions are inexpensive to change and you do not have to pull the unit to replace, just pull the primary cover and faceplate and relplace.
Hope you all get an opportunity to try, please let me know your thoughts if you do!
John E Dahmer - Darkhorse Crankworks GM
john@darkhorsecrankworks.com
John, I am considering a Rekluse for a clutch upgrade on my bike. How do you like it?
Quote from: rigidthumper on April 12, 2020, 11:59:29 AM
Please provide us with a proper review after you install the DH unit. :chop:
Money was just too tight to shell out another $400 on top of the money I spent on the Vulcan Solid sprocket kit... I installed the 32T solid front engine sprocket..
If the solid doesn't feel right... I won't hesitate to replace it with the Man-O-War comp instead of putting the OEM back on....
The the two short rides I've taken since putting the 32T solid sprocket on have been really nice... I LOVE the gearing change and haven't felt any issues that make me feel I'll need to go back to a compensator.. so far...
I installed the 32T solid front engine sprocket..
I have been running that setup for a while now. I am very happy with it & see no reason whatever to go back to a compensator.
~John
Just installed my 32T ManOWar this weekend. Definitely a high quality product. The fitment to the crank has much tighter tolerances than the stock compensator. Love the gearing change below 65 mph, although at freeway speeds the new gear in addition to the 180/60 tire I run (14' Touring) may seem geared a little lower than I had originally thought. 6th gear is definitely more usable. Shifting from N to first is definitely smoother, I don't notice an easier shift to N myself. Don't love the chain noise on the adjuster shoe, but am hopeful that will tame down with some time.
For those of you who have installed the Man o War did you use the same torque specs as the Harley compensator? I had one installed went with the shorter crank bolt from Evo Industries torque to 180 ft lbs put in a new chain tensioner and still getting a lot of vibration from the primary. Only at certain RPM's and changes under load. I emailed John I am sure he will get back with me but just curious if anyone else has had the issue and what was the fix. Thanks in advance.
For those that have some miles on the install, do you notice any low rpm chain snatch or clattering? Currently running a Baker unit and it's noisy. Thinking I may need to change to a DH or a solid for my 14 Tri Glide.
No new feedback?
2500 miles on mine no noise very smooth
I've had mine in for a few weeks now. First day it bedded in nicely and has been quiet ever since. Neutral is easy to find and I have had no strange noises coming from the primary. No complaints at all from me so far. It seems like an excellent product.
I torqued mine down to 140 pounds like the instructions stated along with a new comp bolt.
the instructions that came with my Darkhorse man-o-war comp.
[attach=0]
No recommended primary fluid on the instructions?
I'm fairly certain the compensator itself doesn't even need lube. Other than the sprocket for the chain.
We've installed at least 8 of them this season, a few growing pains with chain adjustments and a habitual "lugger" issue, all good. It's the only comp replacement we will use at our shop
Quote from: 92flhtcu on July 16, 2020, 08:20:42 PM
We've installed at least 8 of them this season, a few growing pains with chain adjustments and a habitual "lugger" issue, all good. It's the only comp replacement we will use at our shop
On another thread I've been discussing replacing my clutch basket. You just made me drop another five hundred bucks. I hope you feel guilty. :potstir:
Quote from: 92flhtcu on July 16, 2020, 08:20:42 PM
We've installed at least 8 of them this season, a few growing pains with chain adjustments and a habitual "lugger" issue, all good. It's the only comp replacement we will use at our shop
Need more info on the lugging.
Darkhorse is making an improvement to their comp. I ordered one early this past week and got an email from Andrew saying he could not ship until Friday because they are making an improvement.
I deeply apologize that I don't know that the improvement is.
Guys and Gals,
We did make a few changes - primarily out of necessity. We had started out using a teflon coated / oil impregnated bushing in our sprocket that rotates on the hardened drive hub. The company that manufactures the raw bushing failed to meet our qty needs and rather than wait potentially 6 months for our next supply we quickly started testing some other options. We found an option that actually improved the stability of the sprocket, could hold a tighter tolerance and reduced some potential noises that some had experienced. That bushing requires more oil supply than what our other original bushing needed.
We designed & engineered a system that will provide better oil feed (and longevity) to any of our previous sprocket bushings AND we will be able to retrofit into any of the existing sprockets already sold when or if they need to be rebuilt.
The old saying "War is the mother of invention" is kind of what I equate to what we have going on in relationship to our Man O-War motorsprocket. It has been very well received in the marketplace, making it hard to keep up with orders, then a supplier issue throws a curve and we resolved with an "in-house" manufacturable product to cut down on supply issues in the future and make a better product!
Now all of our outsourced pieces (cushions are only product we do not mfg) and processes (ion hardening) we need are sourced within an hour of our shop!
Thank you all for your support and patience as we ramp up production of our Man O-War motorsprocket
John E Dahmer
Darkhorse Crankworks
Keep up the good work
Slightly related, there is a high spec version of the stock comp ramps available, which will not break into pieces
Quote from: yobtaf103 on July 21, 2020, 05:54:06 AM
Slightly related, there is a high spec version of the stock comp ramps available, which will not break into pieces
Please start a desperate post regarding OEM compensator parts.
Ohio is suggesting a separate post/thread...there is already plenty of desperate posts regarding the OEM comp.
The spell check to desperate did make me laugh!
Disparate times.
Quote from: NHBagger on June 27, 2020, 06:16:24 PM
For those that have some miles on the install, do you notice any low rpm chain snatch or clattering? Currently running a Baker unit and it's noisy. Thinking I may need to change to a DH or a solid for my 14 Tri Glide.
I did notice quite a bit of low rpm clattering. I was living with it, but when the wife asked "what's that noise, it doesn't instill confidence that we won't be buying a new bike in Sturgis" (After having the bike be down for 2 months due to a broken valvespring) I ended up taking the ManOWar out and putting the stock comp back in. Quiet as a churchmouse now comparatively. The noise, and the high speed high RPMs on road trips were my deciding factors. Loved the gearing at speeds below 70.
As mentioned in another thread, I recently installed the Darkhorse comp. The drivetrain now has a more connected feel, like the bike should have had all along. There is no down side that I can feel when riding, starting, or shutting the engine off. I also like the installation much better. Instead of having to fumble to install a bunch of pieces parts, including struggling to make sure springs don't slip out of place, the installation is painfully simple (spacer, sprocket, oil catcher washer). Finally, instead of having to squish a spongy set of springs before you actually get to the point of loosening or tightening the comp bolt, it's like just a regular old bolt. The bolt bottoms out solid and then you tighten to the 175 lbs.
I'm still chuckling at myself because when I first looked at it I wondered how I was going to align the oil holes of the sprocket with the oil washer catcher. That was until I noticed the oil channel.
Very simple configuration. More sensible. Rebuildable. Clean. Cool. Clever.
I jumped in and had the DH unit installed. Only got a few miles on it but I see what you mean about it feeling like more torque or maybe just tighter. The only noise I get is kind of a whirring sound. I still get a little backlash now and then but that may be my fault as it's so smooth and tight, I sometimes let the rpms drop to 2k or so. I don't think my cams like it there. Still need to put on some more miles.
Does anybody make a manual chain tensioner for the 32t sprocket setup?
I am thinking about purchasing one of these units. Can someone explain the riding difference between the 32 and 34 units? Will dropping two teeth raise cruising RPM? I am a high mileage/long distance rider who is on the interstate frequently at 80+MPH. If cruising RPM would raise with the 32, I'd probably stick with the 34.
Thanks!
the 32 tooth will raise the cruising rpm's compared to the 34 tooth
Vulcan engineering makes a 32 tooth sprocket chain tensioner, I have a 2014 flhtk with the 32 tooth man of war sprocket and I really like the way it is geared now
Quote from: scott7d on September 30, 2020, 10:52:19 AM
I am thinking about purchasing one of these units. Can someone explain the riding difference between the 32 and 34 units? Will dropping two teeth raise cruising RPM? I am a high mileage/long distance rider who is on the interstate frequently at 80+MPH. If cruising RPM would raise with the 32, I'd probably stick with the 34.
Thanks!
I tour a lot too. I had the 32T Game Changer in my 09 Street Glide for only a couple rides it moved me up about 250-300 rpm so I took it out. I didn't care for it. Seems I shifted a lot more too. I t depends on how you ride I guess!
hello, I am taking my 32T off this weekend and going back to stock compensator, with new parts and R&R inner primary, this thing was so noisy, couldn't stand it, read road glide forum several guys, complaining about clutch and transmission clatter.
Quote from: tolobill on October 01, 2020, 07:18:32 AM
hello, I am taking my 32T off this weekend and going back to stock compensator, with new parts and R&R inner primary, this thing was so noisy, couldn't stand it, read road glide forum several guys, complaining about clutch and transmission clatter.
Was it the 32 tooth Darkhorse compensator?
yes, one other thing when you add there shoe to the existing tensioner, the angle of the chain going up is pretty significant.
Quote from: topcat3815 on October 01, 2020, 03:27:56 AM
Vulcan engineering makes a 32 tooth sprocket chain tensioner
Yeah this is the vulcan tensioner & 32T sprocket.
(https://i.imgur.com/jQIzSZq.jpg)
~John
I have since gone to a 30 tooth engine sprocket.
~John
The verdicts seem a tad inconclusive, to say the least.
Quote from: tolobill on October 01, 2020, 07:18:32 AM
hello, I am taking my 32T off this weekend and going back to stock compensator, with new parts and R&R inner primary, this thing was so noisy, couldn't stand it, read road glide forum several guys, complaining about clutch and transmission clatter.
Does that mean that they blame the DH front compensator for clutch and transmission glatter?
Quote from: No Cents on July 07, 2020, 07:20:12 AM
the instructions that came with my Darkhorse man-o-war comp.
[attach=0,msg1353901]
It doesn't say need for new alternator rotor, is the spring pack of stock rotor removable?