I have a 2005 Ultra that is not ridden all that much any longer but still maintain the fluids, appearance, etc.....
Started to notice a small leak on the garage floor. Took a peak underneath and noticed a drip of oil at the trans plug. Huh?
Gave it almost a 1/2 to 3/4 turn and snugged it up. Wipe it off and recently rode it again.
Look underneath and now the Trans pan is wet and still a drip at the plug.
Hmmm, start to wonder if this something more serious?
Get a new O-ring as a quick thought to what the issue might be as there is not a lot of oil but never had a drip/wet pan like this.
This morning I drain the trans fluid and check the O-ring. To my surprise, this O-ring is virtually shredded.
Is this what happens over time or have the technicians working on my bike forgot what pride is when doing a full fluid change?
I recently change my crankcase oil and the gasket looked nothing like this (but it takes the same O-ring from what Harley tells me) and I personally never changed the trans fluid before until now.
Hopefully this is not normal practice and this is more of an exception than a rule but thought I'd share a picture of this O-ring as I couldn't believe my eyes.
I think I found my trans leak? :banghead:
BINGO ! Quality is no longer JOB #1. They should be changed at every drain interval. I but a 1,000 at a time for something like $20
I have replaced drain plug orings and the next time they are shredded, so who knows? I also lube them up before I put the plug in.
I've had them come out shredded, and I've had them come out perfect. I change them every time either way.
Almost every time I change mine the old one is shredded. Try some of these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/50-Harley-Davidson-replacement-Viton-O-Ring-Oil-Trans-Primary-Drain-Plug-11105/261357400335?hash=item3cda1d710f:g:2AMAAOSweLZeYnuk
Supposedly the viton ones are less prone to doing this. I would also use a little Loctite 565 on the threads, that will usually keep the oil from leaking.
Thanks everyone, appreciate the comments and suggestions!
In my experience if you can find a viton crossover o-ring go with it. I work in an industrial maintenance occupation and they seem to hold up better than conventional.
Quote from: smoserx1 on September 06, 2020, 11:48:12 AM
Almost every time I change mine the old one is shredded. Try some of these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/50-Harley-Davidson-replacement-Viton-O-Ring-Oil-Trans-Primary-Drain-Plug-11105/261357400335?hash=item3cda1d710f:g:2AMAAOSweLZeYnuk (https://www.ebay.com/itm/50-Harley-Davidson-replacement-Viton-O-Ring-Oil-Trans-Primary-Drain-Plug-11105/261357400335?hash=item3cda1d710f:g:2AMAAOSweLZeYnuk)
Supposedly the viton ones are less prone to doing this. I would also use a little Loctite 565 on the threads, that will usually keep the oil from leaking.
I also use the 565 on the drain plugs. It's similar to what Harley uses from the factory. Since it dries semi hard, if a drain plug ever did come loose it would keep it from just spinning on out. :up:
I put a dab of Permetex Aviation gasket sealer on the threads and the a drop of oil on the oring and make sure the drain hole is clean. I've got bikes I've taken care of for years and the orings don't look like that unless someone who does care has worked on it before me.
I have always serviced all of my bikes for 40 years after having bad experiences at dealers. It gives me a chance to go over everything a couple times a year. Have always put a little teflon tape on drain plugs along with new o-rings.
In 2015 I bought a new Ultra and had the Dealer do the first service. I had to totally destroy the oil filter to get it off. That re-affirmed my lack of confidence in dealers service techs.
On one of my older bikes, the tran/inner primary seal had a small leak and would run down and drip. It looked like a drain plug leak.
Quote from: calbyker69 on September 07, 2020, 07:32:13 AM
I have always serviced all of my bikes for 40 years after having bad experiences at dealers. It gives me a chance to go over everything a couple times a year. Have always put a little teflon tape on drain plugs along with new o-rings.
In 2015 I bought a new Ultra and had the Dealer do the first service. I had to totally destroy the oil filter to get it off. That re-affirmed my lack of confidence in dealers service techs.
On one of my older bikes, the tran/inner primary seal had a small leak and would run down and drip. It looked like a drain plug leak.
Teflon tape can give you issues if it get's "into" the system as it can score & damage close tolerances. I really don't think that an HD tranny has anything close tolerance though. :hyst:
I learned this from a hydraulic shop years ago.
Check the bolts that hold the exhaust bracket to the trans side door for looseness.
Quote from: koko3052 on September 07, 2020, 07:44:52 AM
Quote from: calbyker69 on September 07, 2020, 07:32:13 AM
I have always serviced all of my bikes for 40 years after having bad experiences at dealers. It gives me a chance to go over everything a couple times a year. Have always put a little teflon tape on drain plugs along with new o-rings.
In 2015 I bought a new Ultra and had the Dealer do the first service. I had to totally destroy the oil filter to get it off. That re-affirmed my lack of confidence in dealers service techs.
On one of my older bikes, the tran/inner primary seal had a small leak and would run down and drip. It looked like a drain plug leak.
Teflon tape can give you issues if it get's "into" the system as it can score & damage close tolerances. I really don't think that an HD tranny has anything close tolerance though. :hyst:
I learned this from a hydraulic shop years ago.
I heard that once also. Then I heard it was a myth. Then I heard blahblahblah. I imagine if you used enough it could happen.
Been using it on every liquid fitting without an issue. Was taught it in Voc School in the 70's. Confirmed in the garages I worked in.
There is a bit of a nack to getting the drain plug o-rings to seat perfectly and not get smashed under the bolt head. First thing I do is to remove any thread sealant from the threads. I lube the o-ring heavily. Once the o-ring touches the surface, I turn about 1/8 of a turn, wait 5 seconds, 1/8 turn, wait...do this over and over to allow the o-ring to seat. If I've done it right, the 1/8 turns ends suddenly with the bolt head grounding solidly on the casing, and not with a spongy feel.
If I don't get it right, I take out the plug, put a new o-ring on, and start over.
Quote from: calbyker69 on September 07, 2020, 08:39:17 AM
I heard that once also. Then I heard it was a myth. Then I heard blahblahblah. I imagine if you used enough it could happen.
Been using it on every liquid fitting without an issue. Was taught it in Voc School in the 70's. Confirmed in the garages I worked in.
When I went to heavy equipment school in 1978 the were pretty particular about teflon tape. In fact, they did not allow it in the shop until second year and even then they we very serious about where to use it. Never on oil fittings, no hydraulics, no engine oil systems, pipe threads on cooling systems was ok. Thread paste was ok on oil fittings, but only on tapered pipe thread.
I remember a student in second year using it somewhere he shouldn't have. The instructor used him as a bad example and chewed his butt good, in front of the whole class.
Quote from: PoorUB on September 07, 2020, 09:32:07 AM
Quote from: calbyker69 on September 07, 2020, 08:39:17 AM
I heard that once also. Then I heard it was a myth. Then I heard blahblahblah. I imagine if you used enough it could happen.
Been using it on every liquid fitting without an issue. Was taught it in Voc School in the 70's. Confirmed in the garages I worked in.
When I went to heavy equipment school in 1978 the were pretty particular about teflon tape. In fact, they did not allow it in the shop until second year and even then they we very serious about where to use it. Never on oil fittings, no hydraulics, no engine oil systems, pipe threads on cooling systems was ok. Thread paste was ok on oil fittings, but only on tapered pipe thread.
I remember a student in second year using it somewhere he shouldn't have. The instructor used him as a bad example and chewed his butt good, in front of the whole class.
Well there ya go. There are always more then one way to do everything. And evidently my way is always wrong.
But my vehicles keep running, my house is still standing and I'm still breathing.
Cal, calm down, just stating what I have been taught.
As long as you know how to use teflon tape the chances of having issues are slim. It is the guys the wrap the tape past the end of the fitting that run the big risk. I worked with a guy that could not wrap a fitting with teflon tape properly. May as well wrapped the tape in a ball and shoved the fitting into it, it was so messed up. I showed him several times how to do it and he just couldn't get the hang of it. I think he had problems trying to do two things at once. Couldn't hold the fitting in one hand, the tape in the other than roll the tape around the fitting. I watched him put a fitting in a bench vise and use both hands to run the roll of tape! He still couldn't do it! It was almost hilarious!
Quote from: PoorUB on September 08, 2020, 04:12:27 PM
Cal, calm down, just stating what I have been taught.
As long as you know how to use teflon tape the chances of having issues are slim. It is the guys the wrap the tape past the end of the fitting that run the big risk. I worked with a guy that could not wrap a fitting with teflon tape properly. May as well wrapped the tape in a ball and shoved the fitting into it, it was so messed up. I showed him several times how to do it and he just couldn't get the hang of it. I think he had problems trying to do two things at once. Couldn't hold the fitting in one hand, the tape in the other than roll the tape around the fitting. I watched him put a fitting in a bench vise and use both hands to run the roll of tape! He still couldn't do it! It was almost hilarious!
I've also seen this. Have seen people wrap the tape the wrong direction especially on larger fittings and wonder why the tape is unraveling as they are trying to thread it in.
There is absolutely no reason to use tape or thread sealer on the drain plug with a new o-ring installed. :doh:
Quote from: Coyote on September 08, 2020, 05:15:35 PM
There is absolutely no reason to use tape or thread sealer on the drain plug with a new o-ring installed. :doh:
:agree: Some habits die hard I guess! Teflon tape was taboo in the Steel Mill I did my millwright apprenticeship in. That was in the early 70's. Been using blue loctite ever since when a sealant was required on threads. Like Coyote said nothing needed with a o-ring. Bob
PS- I have to add i have seen many castings cracked from to much teflon tape on a tapered pipe plug than i want to remember. It can cause problems.
Quote from: Coyote on September 08, 2020, 05:15:35 PM
There is absolutely no reason to use tape or thread sealer on the drain plug with a new o-ring installed. :doh:
^ ^ ^ ^
this. :up:
Quote from: No Cents on September 08, 2020, 05:43:55 PM
Quote from: Coyote on September 08, 2020, 05:15:35 PM
There is absolutely no reason to use tape or thread sealer on the drain plug with a new o-ring installed. :doh:
^ ^ ^ ^
this. :up:
I do agree, I think we just wandered off with teflon tape. other than a drop of oil on the oring nothing is needed on the drain plug. I wonder why the factory puts a dab of white sealer on the threads?
Quote from: Coyote on September 08, 2020, 05:15:35 PM
There is absolutely no reason to use tape or thread sealer on the drain plug with a new o-ring installed. :doh:
My dealer uses thread sealant regularly. The bed for the o-ring is machined that badly that the o-ring gets damaged during torque down and can not work securely.
Karl
Quote from: Karl H. on September 08, 2020, 11:18:19 PM
Quote from: Coyote on September 08, 2020, 05:15:35 PM
There is absolutely no reason to use tape or thread sealer on the drain plug with a new o-ring installed. :doh:
My dealer uses thread sealant regularly. The bed for the o-ring is machined that badly that the o-ring gets damaged during torque down and can not work securely.
Karl
I have read that bad machining on the o-ring seats can cause shredding of a properly installed o-ring..
Not sure how common it is...
I have two bikes with the non o-ring primary plugs.
I use Loctite 545 on those, and got into the habit of putting a dab on all my plugs... can't hurt... :nix:
:agree:
Quote from: Billy on September 07, 2020, 08:06:32 AM
Check the bolts that hold the exhaust bracket to the trans side door for looseness.