I have an alto clutch in my 82 flh. There are no oil lines running out of the primary so it's sealed. I changed the oil in the primary and put formula + in up to the bottom of clutch basket. I started it, pulled in the clutch and dropped it in gear and it lurched forward and stalled. Overfilled primary I guess. I have it apart and clutch looks like it's in reasonably good condition. I looked on Alto web site and they appear to be Carbonite friction plates. If anyone is running this clutch set up, I would appreciate suggestions on what fluid you run and how much. Any other thoughts or suggestions would also be appreciated. Thanks.
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I run their carbonate clutch on my dyna. I just use Harley primary oil. I have also used amsoil. When I called alto to ask what they suggest and how much, the guy just told me to use the stock level and not atf fluid.
You can run 50W engine oil too. That is what was in it from the oiling system. Engine oil or primary oil. Dino or synthetic either one. Fill to the bottom of the clutch basket on the sidestand. Doesn't take much.
Quote from: fbn ent on June 18, 2022, 09:54:14 PMYou can run 50W engine oil too. That is what was in it from the oiling system. Engine oil or primary oil. Dino or synthetic either one. Fill to the bottom of the clutch basket on the sidestand. Doesn't take much.
Thanks. I did notice there wasn't much in there when I changed the primary fluid. But, it's a shovel and it does drip here and there. No mention in the manual. There are many things on this 40 year old bike that have been replaced, removed or redone. Not the stock hub, shell, or plates.
I believe this is sorted. Took it apart and cleaned the frictions and steels. I wiped the frictions down with atf and reinstalled. I used the specs in manual to set the springs and adjust the clutch. I put 8oz of atf in the primary and went for a short ride. Still need a small adjustment on the clutch. I took inspection cover off and the trans fluid is on the starter ring gear. The chain seemed like it was damp,but not soaked. I do not want to overfill, so I'll add few ounces at a time until I can see it on the chain. If any thoughts I'd be happy to hear.
Quote from: misfitJason on June 18, 2022, 12:49:32 PMI run their carbonate clutch on my dyna. I just use Harley primary oil. I have also used amsoil. When I called alto to ask what they suggest and how much, the guy just told me to use the stock level and not atf fluid.
Weird. The website says fine if primary is separate from motor and trans. I decided to use the atf because it seemed like many do.
Those friction plates have no groves to frow the oil out id say thay are for dry( stock)
Friction plates look like Drag Spec DS-223735 (https://www.dragspecialties.com/search;q=DS-223735;r=eJyrVkrLzClJLSpWsoqOrQUAJusFKA%3D%3D)
8oz of ATF should be fine. A clutch retainer helps, if you don't already have one. And I liked the aluminum spring plate as well. However, I can't say enough about the APM ("Pro") clutch. It transformed mine into a different bike. The most amazing thing was instead of that KLANK when shifting from neutral to 1st, now it is dead silent with no feel at all on the shifter lever. I often question if it even went into gear!
-JW
I'm still trying to get this just right. When I adjusted the clutch I used the procedure in the manual. The arm on the trans was way too far away from the top. I adjusted that to 13/16" per manual. Started with 1 1/32 for the springs. Turned the adjustment screw till contact and backed off 1/8 turn and tightened it down. When I pulled the clutch handle in, the clutch disengaged crooked. I adjusted the nuts on the springs until it was as close as I could get it. Two of the nuts were not very tight. Re adjusted the pushrod screw and closed it back up. It goes into first from neutral with no sound at all and shifts into second fine as well. Third gear, not so much.
Shifts hard. Almost like the clutch is not working. I see there is an adjustment on the five speeds tho get the forks in the correct position in third gear. I don't see that procedure in the manual for the four speed. I will try the linkage adjustment.
Unfortunately there is no external adjustment with the four speed to center the forks. It's done by locating the forks in the top cover. The correct way is to use a special tool to center the sliders, reference their position and transfer it to the forks in the top cover. That said, what you are describing does not quite sound like a fork centering issue. Can you be more specific about what is happening?
-JW
Quote from: JW113 on September 03, 2022, 09:43:24 AMUnfortunately there is no external adjustment with the four speed to center the forks. It's done by locating the forks in the top cover. The correct way is to use a special tool to center the sliders, reference their position and transfer it to the forks in the top cover. That said, what you are describing does not quite sound like a fork centering issue. Can you be more specific about what is happening?
-JW
Start the bike in neutral. Slips easily into first gear. No clunk. Second gear requires a bit more force and third gear a bit more than second. If I pull the clutch in and shift after the motor revs down closer to idle, it shifts pretty easy. The bike came to me with really wide beach bars and the clutch arm was so far forward that the cable jacket was melted in the rear header. It shifted ok until I overfilled the primary and locked the clutch up with oil. I took everything apart, cleaned it and put it back together per the manual, which is to say the way the stock set up should be. It shifted pretty well at first and had gotten a little worse. I don't have to slam it into gear, but it was better before I overfilled the primary. I have investigated the Primo and APM. I don't ride it that much. It shifted ok when I got it.
Can't go wrong with the Primo or APM same thing clutches. There pricy but are worth it to me as they take all the inherent issues away and work very well. One of the first items I ordered for my 62 FLH build. I have gotten the oem set up to work very well also however that doesn't last very long before I find myself going back in for one reason or another so I just buck up and install the API and am done with it.
I hear ya, if you don't ride it that much it's hard to justify spending the time & money for the APM. I was actually pretty happy with my stock clutch, it was easy to pull, did not lurch at a stop while in gear, and the clutch action was smooth. But what pushed me over the edge finally was the bang-klang-a-lang during shifting. Man, it was the noisiest shifting bike I ever rode, even worse than a BMW airhead. Now, all gone.
If you want to make the stock clutch work fairly well, then I highly recommend getting a Ramjet clutch retainer, an aluminum outer pressure plate, and set of matched blue springs. The retainer helps keep the clutch basket from getting wonky when you pull the lever to release, and the aluminum pressure plate does not flex like the stock sheet metal one does. I also found that it's easy to put too much preload on the springs. I had mine adjusted so that it had "just enough" preload to keep from slipping. I backed off the nuts one click at a time until I could feel it slip in 4th gear at full throttle, and tightened back down one turn. Also, you need to very carefully measure and balance the gap between the spring perch and pressure plate at the three adjusting studs. I ended up mixing around the nuts until I found a sweet spot where the gap measurement was really close. I also thought about using those "aero" nylok nuts, or filing more lock dibs in the nuts to get 1/6 turn adjustment, but did not need to. Probably overkill and being OCD.
:hyst:
The other key a I think you've already found is not too much oil. Shovelhead is a dry clutch and does not work well with wet plates. Just enough Type F ATF for the ring gear to throw some oil on the chain is all that is necessary. 8oz should be plenty, I think mine is even less than that, maybe 6oz?
-JW
Quote from: JW113 on September 04, 2022, 11:54:07 AMI hear ya, if you don't ride it that much it's hard to justify spending the time & money for the APM. I was actually pretty happy with my stock clutch, it was easy to pull, did not lurch at a stop while in gear, and the clutch action was smooth. But what pushed me over the edge finally was the bang-klang-a-lang during shifting. Man, it was the noisiest shifting bike I ever rode, even worse than a BMW airhead. Now, all gone.
If you want to make the stock clutch work fairly well, then I highly recommend getting a Ramjet clutch retainer, an aluminum outer pressure plate, and set of matched blue springs. The retainer helps keep the clutch basket from getting wonky when you pull the lever to release, and the aluminum pressure plate does not flex like the stock sheet metal one does. I also found that it's easy to put too much preload on the springs. I had mine adjusted so that it had "just enough" preload to keep from slipping. I backed off the nuts one click at a time until I could feel it slip in 4th gear at full throttle, and tightened back down one turn. Also, you need to very carefully measure and balance the gap between the spring perch and pressure plate at the three adjusting studs. I ended up mixing around the nuts until I found a sweet spot where the gap measurement was really close. I also thought about using those "aero" nylok nuts, or filing more lock dibs in the nuts to get 1/6 turn adjustment, but did not need to. Probably overkill and being OCD.
:hyst:
The other key a I think you've already found is not too much oil. Shovelhead is a dry clutch and does not work well with wet plates. Just enough Type F ATF for the ring gear to throw some oil on the chain is all that is necessary. 8oz should be plenty, I think mine is even less than that, maybe 6oz?
-JW
I did the same thing. When I noticed it was disengaging wonky, I backed the nuts off so it disengaged correctly. I thought about running all five nuts out until it started to slip, but decided against it
Here is a video I took after.
https://youtube.com/shorts/gOWD2nGP87s?feature=share
It appears to be moving correctly?
Ah, five finger hub? Personally, I'd toss two of the nuts and just run with three as stock. As someone once put it (Burnout?) "ever sit at a five legged table?".
And I see red springs there. Just my opinion, but I think you have too much spring pressure, especially for that stock sheet metal pressure plate. I'd give the blue springs a try. Cheap experiment.
-JW
Quote from: JW113 on September 04, 2022, 01:41:44 PMAh, five finger hub? Personally, I'd toss two of the nuts and just run with three as stock. As someone once put it (Burnout?) "ever sit at a five legged table?".
And I see red springs there. Just my opinion, but I think you have too much spring pressure, especially for that stock sheet metal pressure plate. I'd give the blue springs a try. Cheap experiment.
-JW
It supposedly has a sidewinder kit. I agree the red springs are too much. Any preference on the Aluminium pressure plate?
Drag has one. Like, 30 bux.
-JW