My 2007 RK had an M-6 auto adjuster installed when I bought it.
The first time I had the primary cover off, I found the tensioner shoe in about 5 pieces floating around being quickly mangled into tiny little pieces.
After I cleaned out that mess, I decided to dump the auto adjusting setup & installed the Baker Attitude adjuster. That didn't turn out to be a great setup either. The bracket quickly bent which turned out to be a rather common problem & Baker came out with a second version (the Armored Attitude adjuster with a 2nd plate supporting the whole mess & there was an upgrade kit you could buy for something like $60 that would make your old one into the new $250 unit.
I took the primary cover off yesterday preparing to remove the DD7 tranny to send it to Baker for shifting problems & found the new "armored piece" in two pieces broken right in half.
Now, I am trying to decide what to buy to go with the new GrudgeBox going in. I remember when posters where discovering the Attitude Adjuster was junk right about the same time people where realizing the Baker Compensator was also a POS but I don't remember what other options people where using other than the welded stock unit.
How is the Twin Power unit working out for people at this point ??
~John
Whatever I go with will be paired up with my Vulcan compensator eliminator sprocket & Bandit Sportsman clutch (which has all been working just fine)
~John
John, my stock 2011 unit properly adjusted is working fine. I don't get on it hard and decel until the primary is up to temp and that's the key. Otherwise, I expect you and I are equally as abusive with the throttle. :hyst: :hyst: Each time I have removed my primary the adjustment (cold) looked perfect. (touch wood) I suppose the welded OEM unit others use is an acceptable option too as the OEM adjuster seems to hold up without breaking or bending.
Did you ever get that Pingel module I sent you hooked up & working ??
~John
Yes I got it (thanks again :beer: ) but didn't get it hooked up yet. I put the shifter on, got it to shift, installed all of the rest of the parts, then pulled the fuse and was waiting for a shift light mount to do the final hook up and Shift Minder settings. I bought the $$$ Pingel $$$ handlebar mount and had to make a choice between between riding riding the few days I had open or put it back on the lift to tie it all in. Guess what I chose. :embarrassed: :teeth: I'm cleaning up the shop to get back at it though. I'm hoping I can get it all done and trailer south for a bit of a holiday and some riding.
Oh yeah, I also did a GrudgeBox (couldn't hold a 3rd geart in the OEM 6 spd), RB Racing chain conversion (tired of ripping up belts) :crook: .... and a couple of other little things like heavy battery cables and strater bypass etc also. That ate up the time I had to spare because I had to wait 5 months for the transmission to ship. BTW, I couldn't break either in the few thousand wicked miles I put on this summer. :teeth: I can't wait to get the shifter and shift minder set up. :wink:
Call Evolution Industries and ask them about their Bump Stop, it's not on their website. It's a device that will convert the stock ratcheting tensioner into an adjustable one and fix it so as it will no longer ratchet. It works really well and is about $50. IIRC.
http://www.evolution-industries.com/dyn4.aspx
Found this.
[attach=0]
I've had the SE adjuster in my 120" bagger for 3 trouble free years so far. I ordered one of the early Baker's and didn't even install it. One look, and it was obvious it was going to flex and break. How they released that to market is beyond me. The SE unit is solid, and has worked great for me. Same goes for the comp.
Quote from: akjeff on November 06, 2019, 06:58:31 AM
I've had the SE adjuster in my 120" bagger for 3 trouble free years so far. I ordered one of the early Baker's and didn't even install it. One look, and it was obvious it was going to flex and break. How they released that to market is beyond me. The SE unit is solid, and has worked great for me. Same goes for the comp.
yupper, my SE one has seen 4 seasons and no problems.. 2014 FLHXS with a stage 5 tire shredder
Quote from: Billy on November 06, 2019, 05:02:05 AM
Found this.
[attach=0,msg1321815]
Interesting!
But if one takes away the ratcheting part, what would keep the tension proper? Seems to me it would then work like a Hayden, with a real weak spring. ??
Quote from: Propflux01 on November 09, 2019, 01:14:53 PM
Quote from: Billy on November 06, 2019, 05:02:05 AM
Found this.
[attach=0,msg1321815]
Interesting!
But if one takes away the ratcheting part, what would keep the tension proper? Seems to me it would then work like a Hayden, with a real weak spring. ??
No, it doesn't make it work like the Haden. It makes the stock auto adjuster a fixed one. The bump stop blocks the adjuster from ratcheting tighter, pretty much makes the spring useless. I wish I had taken some good pics of it installed. This piece really works well and is very inexpensive relative to other options discussed here. I'm surprised no one else on here has caught on to it.
Quote from: Billy on November 09, 2019, 02:04:12 PM
Quote from: Propflux01 on November 09, 2019, 01:14:53 PM
Quote from: Billy on November 06, 2019, 05:02:05 AM
Found this.
[attach=0,msg1321815]
Interesting!
But if one takes away the ratcheting part, what would keep the tension proper? Seems to me it would then work like a Hayden, with a real weak spring. ??
No, it doesn't make it work like the Haden. It makes the stock auto adjuster a fixed one. The bump stop blocks the adjuster from ratcheting tighter, pretty much makes the spring useless. I wish I had taken some good pics of it installed. This piece really works well and is very inexpensive relative to other options discussed here. I'm surprised no one else on here has caught on to it.
Well, the secrets out now.
Ron
(https://i.imgur.com/u3ffcl9.png)
Quote from: FSG on November 09, 2019, 04:19:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/u3ffcl9.png)
That's it. Where did you find the pic?
QuoteThat's it. Where did you find the pic?
qood question, don't remember, saw it some time ago so grabbed it, took me a while to figure out what it was for, would have come in handy when I tried out the 06 Auto Tensioner in the Fatty years ago
(https://i.imgur.com/OXJtdV5.png)
those destructions have to be wrong
(https://i.imgur.com/AQGf4Ds.png)
Looks like a good idea to me . I going to put the road glide on the lift and remove the primary cover and inspect the chain and tensioner. I feeling some vibration and I want to give that area a general inspection. When I pulled down the street glide to inspect every thing and install a new black ops billet basket , tensioner , chain . I remember how tight the primary chain was . Very tight and I decided to eliminate the auto tensioner function then. I set the sag and welded it . Very quiet so I going to order the part and try it on my road glide . Thanks for posting the information
Quote from: FSG on November 09, 2019, 04:43:36 PM
QuoteThat's it. Where did you find the pic?
qood question, don't remember, saw it some time ago so grabbed it, took me a while to figure out what it was for, would have come in handy when I tried out the 06 Auto Tensioner in the Fatty years ago
(https://i.imgur.com/OXJtdV5.png)
those destructions have to be wrong
(https://i.imgur.com/AQGf4Ds.png)
Yes, hole toward front of motorcycle. The pic in the instructions show the proper hole.
Quote from: Billy on November 09, 2019, 02:04:12 PM
Quote from: Propflux01 on November 09, 2019, 01:14:53 PM
Quote from: Billy on November 06, 2019, 05:02:05 AM
Found this.
Interesting!
But if one takes away the ratcheting part, what would keep the tension proper? Seems to me it would then work like a Hayden, with a real weak spring. ??
No, it doesn't make it work like the Haden. It makes the stock auto adjuster a fixed one. The bump stop blocks the adjuster from ratcheting tighter, pretty much makes the spring useless. I wish I had taken some good pics of it installed. This piece really works well and is very inexpensive relative to other options discussed here. I'm surprised no one else on here has caught on to it.
I have never even seen anything like it until now. I have a SOHB one in mine now, and it has been flawless so far. But this intrigues me.
Quote from: Propflux01 on November 09, 2019, 05:38:28 PM
I have never even seen anything like it until now. I have a SOHB one in mine now, and it has been flawless so far. But this intrigues me.
Pix of the blown out HB125 I had in the Fatty :emsad:
(http://i.imgur.com/yfAPfQr.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/I7i0jTk.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/Lnz4W1P.png)
I'll sent the pix and my info to Hot Bikes of Oregon to see what they may say or do, response was ZERO.
I wanted the bike back on the road within 3 or 4 days,
so the stock adjuster went go back in, it's still in there.
Quote from: FSG on November 09, 2019, 06:16:12 PM
Pix of the blown out HB125 I had in the Fatty :emsad:
I'll sent the pix and my info to Hot Bikes of Oregon to see what they may say or do, response was ZERO.
I wanted the bike back on the road within 3 or 4 days, so the stock adjuster went go back in, it's still in there.
Good Lord!! WTF caused that to happen? Looks like some kind of erosion. Pot metal type
As I was putting my DD7 back in today I took a look at my Baker adjuster...
[attach=0]
Great. This is on a pretty mild build.... 110/120 ish. Anyone know if you buy the upgrade part from Baker does it come with a new plastic shoe? Since mine is bent the shoe is worn off axis too. *&$^&**$@
Put the OEM back in, you have the latest revision. I put the -B tensioner in and don't get an over tight chain. And I do run the RPM's up and decel hard in gear at times. Those Baker units are junk.
Quote from: Ohio HD on November 09, 2019, 08:06:44 PM
Put the OEM back in, you have the latest revision. I put the -B tensioner in and don't get an over tight chain. And I do run the RPM's up and decel hard in gear at times. Those Baker units are junk.
Is the OEM tensioner you are referring to P/N 39929-06B?
Jason
Man am I glad I decided to look at this thread. I was going to buy the Baker manual adjuster. So then which is truly the better route to go? The Evolution Industries unit or the stock HD (SE) unit?
I am using the stock tensioner on an almost 150 square 120" 2011 RGU with great success. Believe me, I beat the crap out of it every single time I ride it too. I believe most importantly, you need to understand what causes the OEM auto adjuster to adjust. If you always allow the primary to come up to temp before you get on it and there shouldn't be any problem. Avoid putting hard power on followed by hard decel until the sprockets heat up and grow (removing the cold chain slack) and the tensioner can't click up a notch. After it's up to temp, ..... have at er. :teeth:
Funny how things change. I've seen the stock tensioner blamed for everything from IPB failure to comp failure to hard shifting to...
That was why everyone (myself included) flocked to the Baker. I will say it did make my KLANK into 1st gear quieter. I suspect the bowstring tight stock setup added to the parasitic drag on the clutch plates.
I went ahead & put it back together with the Baker for now while I look around at options. With the shoe worn at an angle it's kinda like it isn't bent at all :idunno:
Quote from: kd on November 10, 2019, 07:04:50 AM
I am using the stock tensioner on an almost 150 square 120" 2011 RGU with great success. Believe me, I beat the crap out of it every single time I ride it too. I believe most importantly, you need to understand what causes the OEM auto adjuster to adjust. If you always allow the primary to come up to temp before you get on it and there shouldn't be any problem. Avoid putting hard power on followed by hard decel until the sprockets heat up and grow (removing the cold chain slack) and the tensioner can't click up a notch. After it's up to temp, ..... have at er. :teeth:
Well, as time goes on between my original manual adjust OEM mod, to welding once adjustment is determined, If I had to do it again I would make use of the front hole and make a limiting plate from the front mounting hole to block. So frigging simple it makes me puke.
Ron
The reason I changed mine originally was a loud 'whir' noise. opened the primary up and chain was banjo tight. I mean tight (it had even caused the clutch basket to mark the inner primary). So jumped on the Hayden-wagen. Damn noise that was supposed to go away never did, then started hearing the broken spring and disintegrating shoe syndromes, . So it came out and was replaced by the Baker attitude adjuster. Good tension keeper but damn, louder than the Hayden. So out it came and in went the Southern Oregon Hot Bikes model. First, no noise. Tighter shifting, overall great feel. Its been in there for alittle over 9K and so far flawless. I haven't really heard any complaints about it it really until FSG's pics came up :unsure:. Now my riding is usually conservative to normal, as I have a 103 with Andrews 48's, and a PV tune. Not a tire shredder, but a nice torquey couch, and that I use that torque riding the curves and hills of Arkansistan. I rarely take to the redline unless I'm feeling just alittle squirrely.
Now HD's tensioner is a good product-Sans the auto tightening. Meaning the shoe usually lasts, doesn't normally blow up, etc. So with this new, and seemingly simple design to keep the ratcheting at bay, Id rather use a stock tensioner that actually works correctly. My only concern is, it this just another cheap part that will break in half in a few thousand miles? I guess if it got one and it broke, I still have three other tensioners laying around.... :banghead:
Quote from: Propflux01 on November 10, 2019, 09:30:13 AM
The reason I changed mine originally was a loud 'whir' noise. opened the primary up and chain was banjo tight. I mean tight (it had even caused the clutch basket to mark the inner primary). So jumped on the Hayden-wagen. Damn noise that was supposed to go away never did, then started hearing the broken spring and disintegrating shoe syndromes, . So it came out and was replaced by the Baker attitude adjuster. Good tension keeper but damn, louder than the Hayden. So out it came and in went the Southern Oregon Hot Bikes model. First, no noise. Tighter shifting, overall great feel. Its been in there for alittle over 9K and so far flawless. I haven't really heard any complaints about it it really until FSG's pics came up :unsure:. Now my riding is usually conservative to normal, as I have a 103 with Andrews 48's, and a PV tune. Not a tire shredder, but a nice torquey couch, and that I use that torque riding the curves and hills of Arkansistan. I rarely take to the redline unless I'm feeling just alittle squirrely.
Now HD's tensioner is a good product-Sans the auto tightening. Meaning the shoe usually lasts, doesn't normally blow up, etc. So with this new, and seemingly simple design to keep the ratcheting at bay, Id rather use a stock tensioner that actually works correctly. My only concern is, it this just another cheap part that will break in half in a few thousand miles? I guess if it got one and it broke, I still have three other tensioners laying around.... :banghead:
Remember, that limiter only needs to resist the block spring pressure. A bent 16 gauge piece of steel with a hole in it to mount to the front hole and done. You don't even need those fancy ass ratchet notches in it.
Ron
QuoteYou don't even need those fancy ass ratchet notches in it
they are just trim guides, if the chain is too loose then trim to the next mark, easier than a tape measure :SM:
QuoteYes, hole toward front of motorcycle. The pic in the instructions show the proper hole.
:up:
This is what I am looking at.
https://www.harley-davidson.com/store/manual-primary-chain-tension-adjuster (https://www.harley-davidson.com/store/manual-primary-chain-tension-adjuster?source_cd=SEM_Shop_PLA&_cr=pla%7cGOOGLE%7cPLA_PA%7cPLA_PA_Branded%7c36500020&gclid=CjwKCAiAh5_uBRA5EiwASW3IamhdABohbnYn061PmLZEv8vC3bSIuvdPiWrL6DcBraewAoXPGyUrIBoCKhgQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)
Quote from: kd on November 10, 2019, 07:04:50 AM
I am using the stock tensioner on an almost 150 square 120" 2011 RGU with great success. Believe me, I beat the crap out of it every single time I ride it too. I believe most importantly, you need to understand what causes the OEM auto adjuster to adjust. If you always allow the primary to come up to temp before you get on it and there shouldn't be any problem. Avoid putting hard power on followed by hard decel until the sprockets heat up and grow (removing the cold chain slack) and the tensioner can't click up a notch. After it's up to temp, ..... have at er. :teeth:
That makes good sense, I get it, and all, but what constitutes "up to temp" and how long does that actually take? My oil temp doesn't get above 180 for at least 30 minutes of riding, and this is in summer. In colder temps, alot longer.
FSG-What symptoms did your bike have when you noticed the SOHB tensioner like that?
It started out as a regular oil change.
https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,73290.0
Quote from: FSG on November 10, 2019, 10:16:15 AM
QuoteYou don't even need those fancy ass ratchet notches in it
they are just trim guides, if the chain is too loose then trim to the next mark, easier than a tape measure :SM:
Ok, then you don't need those fancy ass trim guides either. :hyst:
Ron
Quote from: WhipLash96 on November 10, 2019, 10:23:37 AM
This is what I am looking at.
https://www.harley-davidson.com/store/manual-primary-chain-tension-adjuster (https://www.harley-davidson.com/store/manual-primary-chain-tension-adjuster?source_cd=SEM_Shop_PLA&_cr=pla%7cGOOGLE%7cPLA_PA%7cPLA_PA_Branded%7c36500020&gclid=CjwKCAiAh5_uBRA5EiwASW3IamhdABohbnYn061PmLZEv8vC3bSIuvdPiWrL6DcBraewAoXPGyUrIBoCKhgQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)
I can see why they're gold anodized. :dgust:
But I have heard they are loud.
Quote from: Propflux01 on November 10, 2019, 12:39:04 PM
But I have heard they are loud.
It's a possibility but I've not tested this one. When I was playing around with the OEM auto and converting it to manual, I pulled the shoe springs out once for testing a full rigid concept. Decel whine was unreal so I put the springs back in. This SE has no shoe support springs either and it might behave the same way. Whine on decel that is.
Ron
Quote from: Propflux01 on November 10, 2019, 12:39:04 PM
But I have heard they are loud.
They certainly can be. I tried one and it was noticeable immediately. Not limited to decel. Even the baker transmits a bit more noise to the primary compared to the OEM adjuster. I went back to OEM on my 120" and no issues at all. The newer versions don't seem to be as prone to locking in too tight.
My 12 EG is basically stock except for cams and pipe. I welded my stock tensioner ended up a touch too loose. I love the Hayden in my 93" shovel so I tried the TC version, not so great. I ended up de-welding the stocker and putting it back it. Upgraded to SE comp. Kept the H-D slam drive throughout the changes. My shovel is smoother and quieter.
I installed a new tensioner and tack welded it also and if I had thought about it I done the tab as pictured . To be honest I was not sure how it would turn out , but I rode it pretty hard in Colorado and today I took a 275 mile trip just to see if I have the security light problem fixed an it is lol gone . Any way the primary is very quiet , as far as decal noise I just pull in the clutch some times not a problem . I not wanting any more of that very tight primary chain again. I got a 1000 miles on it now I guess I could pull the primary cover and check but its quiet so I thought I wait till I change the oil in motor .
Edit, responded in wrong thread by accident...
I originally planned to weld my stock adjuster, but reinstalled the original and have had no issues at all. Even with twice stock hp/torque, no issues.
Quote from: Rockout Rocker Products on November 09, 2019, 07:47:50 PM
. Anyone know if you buy the upgrade part from Baker does it come with a new plastic shoe?
Yes, it does but don't waste your money. Even with the "upgrade" it is still a piece of junk !!
~John
Quote from: rbabos on November 10, 2019, 09:29:29 AM
Quote from: kd on November 10, 2019, 07:04:50 AM
I am using the stock tensioner on an almost 150 square 120" 2011 RGU with great success. Believe me, I beat the crap out of it every single time I ride it too. I believe most importantly, you need to understand what causes the OEM auto adjuster to adjust. If you always allow the primary to come up to temp before you get on it and there shouldn't be any problem. Avoid putting hard power on followed by hard decel until the sprockets heat up and grow (removing the cold chain slack) and the tensioner can't click up a notch. After it's up to temp, ..... have at er. :teeth:
Well, as time goes on between my original manual adjust OEM mod, to welding once adjustment is determined, If I had to do it again I would make use of the front hole and make a limiting plate from the front mounting hole to block. So frigging simple it makes me puke.
Ron
Ron I have put heaps of people onto your mod thinking that it was the simplest solution albeit a challenge to drill but this....man you overthinked it aye 😁