I got the Feuling Short Sump plug for my bike, and it's sitting in my stack of parts that I'll be installing once it's warm enough to actually work on my bike again.
However it was made known to me that you can crack the engine cases if you install this wrong.
So I wanted to ask, what is the proper way to remove the stock sump plug, and then how should I go about safely installing the short sump plug?
I plan on doing this at my 10K mile service oil change.
Before changing my bike's oil, I go for a spirited ride to get it to kick up any particulates it can and have them suspended in the oil, then as soon as I get home drain the oil.
I was told that If I do this, I need to make sure I let the bike sit for a while and cool down completely before installing the short sump plug.
Question concerning removal, does removing the sump plug drain the entire bike's oil? Or does it drain only a little bit of the oil that's left in the bottom of the engine?
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
do you have the instructions (https://www.feulingparts.com/instruction.info.php?instruction=3115.pdf) ?
Quote from: FSG on February 01, 2023, 10:05:08 PMdo you have the instructions (https://www.feulingparts.com/instruction.info.php?instruction=3115.pdf) ?
Yes I do.
But I was advised to be cautious about installing the plug.
All of your concerns and ? are clearly stated in the instruction sheet that I just read.
Has anyone had success using this?
Why change it? Whats wrong with the plug from the factory? Bob
"Why change it? Whats wrong with the plug from the factory? Bob"
In some cases the longer factory plug chokes off the scavenge flow and leads to sumping.
Quote from: SP33DY on February 02, 2023, 09:08:40 AM"Why change it? Whats wrong with the plug from the factory? Bob"
In some cases the longer factory plug chokes off the scavenge flow and leads to sumping.
Who the hell let that design thru?
Quote from: Hossamania on February 02, 2023, 10:00:32 AMQuote from: SP33DY on February 02, 2023, 09:08:40 AM"Why change it? Whats wrong with the plug from the factory? Bob"
In some cases the longer factory plug chokes off the scavenge flow and leads to sumping.
Who the hell let that design thru?
They have a special Division at H-D that's dedicated to these (and many other) things. Sorry...I'm feeling a bit grumpy today, Hoss. Please forgive.
Quote from: les on February 02, 2023, 10:47:00 AMQuote from: Hossamania on February 02, 2023, 10:00:32 AMQuote from: SP33DY on February 02, 2023, 09:08:40 AM"Why change it? Whats wrong with the plug from the factory? Bob"
In some cases the longer factory plug chokes off the scavenge flow and leads to sumping.
Who the hell let that design thru?
They have a special Division at H-D that's dedicated to these (and many other) things. Sorry...I'm feeling a bit grumpy today, Hoss. Please forgive.
I totally understand about the grumpy thing, I'm in it myself this week.
Testing is a funny thing.
"Over a million miles of testing before the product was released to the public."
One week into the release, the ham-handed purchasers have exposed multiple weak spots that the manufacturer never dreamed of.
It's what we do.
"Who the hell let that design thru?"
Bean counters, engineers? Maybe they are one and the same.
If possible can someone answer my question, do I need to drain the engine to swap the sump plug? Or can I swap it without dropping the oil?
It's in the instructions.
Quote from: Coyote on February 03, 2023, 06:09:12 AMIt's in the instructions.
The instructions just say to place a drain pan/cookie sheet under the sump.
I'm assuming that means only a few drops to a few oz are gonna come out. But I'd rather ask and double check before I end up with an accidental emergency oil change.
Last time I didn't ask enough questions, I broke a bolt and ruined my summer.
Case sump should be no more than 6oz (3/4 of a cup).
Quote from: rigidthumper on February 03, 2023, 08:09:17 AMCase sump should be no more than 6oz (3/4 of a cup).
Thank you! So I can do this separately from the actual oil change.
That's really good to know.
Quote from: rigidthumper on February 03, 2023, 08:09:17 AMCase sump should be no more than 6oz (3/4 of a cup).
:up: Even says that in the instruction sheet. Just gotta read it.
I removed the one in my TC case i heated it to loosen the locking compound then it came out easy.
Quote from: Coyote on February 03, 2023, 09:58:01 AMQuote from: rigidthumper on February 03, 2023, 08:09:17 AMCase sump should be no more than 6oz (3/4 of a cup).
:up: Even says that in the instruction sheet. Just gotta read it.
Oh I see in the how to check the sumping level segment.
In my defense I glaze over that because I knew how to do it with the crank position sensor, and scanning over I saw it say crank sensor.
But you're right I should have read it.
We've been using the shorter Fueling sump plug since they came out on all our M8 full crank up builds
Quote from: 92flhtcu on February 28, 2023, 12:52:32 PMWe've been using the shorter Fueling sump plug since they came out on all our M8 full crank up builds
How do you go about installing them? Do you have any tips or is it just swap it out and don't worry sorta thing.
Per Harley manual:
1. Apply loctite 565 thread sealant to threads.
2. Torque to 120-144 inch pounds.
The Fueling instructions differ, will have to use your judgment there. Interested to see the method that 92flhtcu uses. My plug is out but my cases are split atm and I had reason to remove it.
If it were me, I wouldn't touch that plug unless you have evidence of sumping or need to fish something out. Not worth having a potential leak or case crack IMO.
Quote from: Mattls6 on March 01, 2023, 04:14:22 AMPer Harley manual:
1. Apply loctite 565 thread sealant to threads.
2. Torque to 120-144 inch pounds.
The Fueling instructions differ, will have to use your judgment there. Interested to see the method that 92flhtcu uses. My plug is out but my cases are split atm and I had reason to remove it.
If it were me, I wouldn't touch that plug unless you have evidence of sumping or need to fish something out. Not worth having a potential leak or case crack IMO.
The primary drain on my 2001 Dyna had a pipe plug. Drained it at least a dozen times without it leaking.
Quote from: boooby1744 on March 04, 2023, 07:30:20 PMQuote from: Mattls6 on March 01, 2023, 04:14:22 AMPer Harley manual:
1. Apply loctite 565 thread sealant to threads.
2. Torque to 120-144 inch pounds.
The Fueling instructions differ, will have to use your judgment there. Interested to see the method that 92flhtcu uses. My plug is out but my cases are split atm and I had reason to remove it.
If it were me, I wouldn't touch that plug unless you have evidence of sumping or need to fish something out. Not worth having a potential leak or case crack IMO.
The primary drain on my 2001 Dyna had a pipe plug. Drained it at least a dozen times without it leaking.
I have the primary pipe drain plug on both my '01 & '03 Softails. Those don't call for a torque value, but rather to install it until it protrudes .160-.180" from the bottom of the case. With that tightening procedure, there would be minimal chance of cracking the primary cover by overtightening...
I had the '03 leak one time, so now, as a matter of habit, I put Locktite 545 on those plugs and I've not had a leak since...
I use pipe dope on those plugs.
Quote from: Hossamania on March 06, 2023, 03:42:23 PMI use pipe dope on those plugs.
:up: The product I use is Gasoila, a soft set sealant.
It's good to remember that pipe dope type applications also lube the threads so a small torue factor becomes larger. This can pull threads. Go easy on the "snugging" up.
Quote from: kd on March 07, 2023, 07:07:31 AMIt's good to remember that pipe dope type applications also lube the threads so a small torue factor becomes larger. This can pull threads. Go easy on the "snugging" up.
Correct, the primary drain plug is a clearance fit install, not a torque value install.
I should say, a pipe thread plug is a clearance fit, not a torque fit.
Quote from: FranBunnyFFXII on February 03, 2023, 05:41:17 AMIf possible can someone answer my question, do I need to drain the engine to swap the sump plug? Or can I swap it without dropping the oil?
I put one in when I did an oil change two months ago. I simply removed the stock one and screwed in the new until it was flush with the case. Didn't even have a instruction sheet. Yeah,I know,I'm a renegade. lol
Quote from: FranBunnyFFXII on February 03, 2023, 05:41:17 AMIf possible can someone answer my question, do I need to drain the engine to swap the sump plug? Or can I swap it without dropping the oil?
Yes, no reason to drain oil. You get whatever is in crank cavity of the case, and that is it.
Quote from: JSD on February 03, 2023, 02:45:17 PMI removed the one in my TC case i heated it to loosen the locking compound then it came out easy.
So I wanted to poke at this if I can. I have a heat gun that does 450F.
How long should I heat up the area?
My plan of action here is to
Heat up the stock sump plug for 2~3 minutes, then remove the stock drain plug, letting things cool back down. Coat the threads of the feuling sump plug with red Loctite from my loctite stick, and dab a small bit on the threads of the engine case, then screw in the new sump plug until I feel the resistance that makes it stop while using an Allen Key(instead of a ratchet so there's much less torque). The from there, according to the instructions, Turn it 1.5 more times.
However I'm assuming that the red loctite stick is probably not a good idea as the instructions call for 545?
Red Loctite in aluminum equals pulled threads when the fastener is removed. 545 is a thread sealer.
Quote from: Ohio HD on April 02, 2023, 11:55:07 AMRed Loctite in aluminum equals pulled threads when the fastener is removed. 545 is a thread sealer.
Thank you, I go pick up some thread sealant then.
Quote from: FranBunnyFFXII on April 02, 2023, 04:21:50 PMQuote from: Ohio HD on April 02, 2023, 11:55:07 AMRed Loctite in aluminum equals pulled threads when the fastener is removed. 545 is a thread sealer.
Thank you, I go pick up some thread sealant then.
545 or any of the thread sealers lube the threads and it is easy to overtighten and strip the crankcase threads. Be careful to not overtighten it.
Quote from: kd on April 02, 2023, 06:31:58 PMQuote from: FranBunnyFFXII on April 02, 2023, 04:21:50 PMQuote from: Ohio HD on April 02, 2023, 11:55:07 AMRed Loctite in aluminum equals pulled threads when the fastener is removed. 545 is a thread sealer.
Thank you, I go pick up some thread sealant then.
545 or any of the thread sealers lube the threads and it is easy to overtighten and strip the crankcase threads. Be careful to not overtighten it.
Right, I was thinking to touch snug it, and then the instructions say 1.5 more turns. And if trying to do that 1.5 turn it starts resisting at all to stop. Will it give a noticeable increase in resistance as I turn it in?
Quote from: FranBunnyFFXII on April 02, 2023, 08:41:26 PMQuote from: kd on April 02, 2023, 06:31:58 PMQuote from: FranBunnyFFXII on April 02, 2023, 04:21:50 PMQuote from: Ohio HD on April 02, 2023, 11:55:07 AMRed Loctite in aluminum equals pulled threads when the fastener is removed. 545 is a thread sealer.
Thank you, I go pick up some thread sealant then.
545 or any of the thread sealers lube the threads and it is easy to overtighten and strip the crankcase threads. Be careful to not overtighten it.
Right, I was thinking to touch snug it, and then the instructions say 1.5 more turns. And if trying to do that 1.5 turn it starts resisting at all to stop. Will it give a noticeable increase in resistance?
My thoughts are those instructions would be for a plug that has more material engagement than the thin walled crankcase and would therefore be able to support more rotation without stripping the threads.
Quote from: kd on April 02, 2023, 08:46:25 PMMy thoughts are those instructions would be for a plug that has more material engagement than the thin walled crankcase and would therefore be able to support more rotation without stripping the threads.
So once everything is cooled down, I should just snug the new sump plug, Turn it a little bit more(like a 1/4 turn) or until I feel it's tight, then leave it be?
The thread sealant holds it in there and from backing out after it's cured?
Quote from: FSG on February 01, 2023, 10:05:08 PMdo you have the instructions (https://www.feulingparts.com/instruction.info.php?instruction=3115.pdf) ?
:idunno: