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Max Torque 110 Drop on Kit Bagger Build

Started by Winston Wolf, September 30, 2019, 07:28:39 AM

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Winston Wolf

Upgrading my Rushmore 103 to a Screamin Eagle 110 drop on kit this winter, and looking to get my ducks in a row.

Currently has CR570-2 cams. Fuel Motor Jackpot header with Crusher Mellows and Fuel moto A/C.  Power Vision Tuner with Target Tune module currently installed.

I am not concerned with HP above 5000 RPM or meeting a certain HP goal.  I want the bike to have the most possible torque from 2000-4500.  I tend to roll on the throttle from 60-65 to pass semi's, without wanting to shift down; and generally don't want to downshift at highway speeds (within reason). I also want the lease amount of engine noise possible on this particular bike.

This bike is used to travel, so it can see fuel from any state. It is run from freezing cold to Death Valley hot, and from sea level to the highest Mt peaks. It spends a lot of time fully loaded and/or 2 up.

I am willing to port the heads, but was thinking at a minimum of AV&V valves to freshen it up (and hopefully keep it quiet).  I will obviously set the compression to whatever the cam I end up using needs, but I do not want the bike to be detonation prone, so want to stay on the mid-lower end of the spectrum CCP wise.  I did have some pinging issues this summer in Nevada (100 deg heat, 30+ MPH headwinds) that even riding in 5th at 70 MPH wouldn't cure.  I have a pretty conservative tune right now too.

I can keep the cams I have, or change them, that is not an issue.

I haven't picked anyone to do the headwork yet, so that's still up in the air.

Wondering if all things being equal, if the Cr575 would give up anything in the low end to the Cr570-2 (say 10.2:1 and a quality valve job) or if setting them both up optimally (headwork, compression)  would show a difference in the 2-4k range. 

kd

From the graphs I see in the Dyno Section the CR575 will out perform the 570-2 at lower RPM and drop out at the top when the 570 keeps some in the bank.  Run through a few pages in that section and you'll see some recipes with comments on performance for both of those cams.  The 570-2 is new and recently very popular so you may have to page a way back to get a good comparison. Pay attention to the model of motorcycle and support modifications when you read about the seat of the pants stuff.
KD

Ohio HD


biggzed

Have you considered a 30 tooth trans pulley? Huge bang for the buck IMO. Combined with a good engine combo it can be very effective for the uses you describe in the OP. It can negate the need for a ton of low end tq. You might find you can get by with a milder build.

Zach

Winston Wolf

Quote from: biggzed on September 30, 2019, 02:52:17 PM
Have you considered a 30 tooth trans pulley? Huge bang for the buck IMO. Combined with a good engine combo it can be very effective for the uses you describe in the OP. It can negate the need for a ton of low end tq. You might find you can get by with a milder build.

Zach

I get where you are coming from, but when I head west, the speed limits are 80 MPH, and we often ride at 85+.  I don't want to raise the engine RPM's any more than they are to be honest.

Hossamania

Just an observation, but if you are rolling 60-65 in 6th gear and want to pass a semi, downshift.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

PoorUB

Quote from: Hossamania on September 30, 2019, 03:56:31 PM
Just an observation, but if you are rolling 60-65 in 6th gear and want to pass a semi, downshift.

Two times!
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

lucasg

Quote from: biggzed on September 30, 2019, 02:52:17 PM
Have you considered a 30 tooth trans pulley? Huge bang for the buck IMO. Combined with a good engine combo it can be very effective for the uses you describe in the OP. It can negate the need for a ton of low end tq. You might find you can get by with a milder build.

Zach

Hey Zach,
Just curious about your suggestion.  I thought the 09' and newer touring models got different gearing cause many folks were complaining about too tall a first gear for the 08's ?   But definitely yes I agree with you as that's one of the avenues I was perusing before I did my HQ 107 kit on my 08 Street Glide.

FXDBI

Quote from: Winston Wolf on September 30, 2019, 03:53:57 PM
Quote from: biggzed on September 30, 2019, 02:52:17 PM
Have you considered a 30 tooth trans pulley? Huge bang for the buck IMO. Combined with a good engine combo it can be very effective for the uses you describe in the OP. It can negate the need for a ton of low end tq. You might find you can get by with a milder build.

Zach

I get where you are coming from, but when I head west, the speed limits are 80 MPH, and we often ride at 85+.  I don't want to raise the engine RPM's any more than they are to be honest.

I have a SE 110 drop on kit with headquarters heads with S&S  585  set @ 10.7 stock TB in a 06 Dyna. The engine pulls to redline @ 80 mph its purring ready to go to redline. Not a bagger but the combo just works well.   Bob

rhuff

Quote from: Winston Wolf on September 30, 2019, 03:53:57 PM
Quote from: biggzed on September 30, 2019, 02:52:17 PM
Have you considered a 30 tooth trans pulley? Huge bang for the buck IMO. Combined with a good engine combo it can be very effective for the uses you describe in the OP. It can negate the need for a ton of low end tq. You might find you can get by with a milder build.

Zach

I get where you are coming from, but when I head west, the speed limits are 80 MPH, and we often ride at 85+.  I don't want to raise the engine RPM's any more than they are to be honest.

I have had a 2015 RGS since new and just sold my 2003 RKC with 5spd.  And live in Las Vegas.  I would run that 5spd all day at 90-95MPH.  The 2015 doesn't usually see 6th until I'm at 80MPH.  No logical reason that RPM's going up appx 200 RPM should be an issue at all. 

And yeah, downshift. 

Winston Wolf

Quote from: Hossamania on September 30, 2019, 03:56:31 PM
Just an observation, but if you are rolling 60-65 in 6th gear and want to pass a semi, downshift.

I'm not talking about passing a semi on a 2 lane road as fast as possible or going WFO from 2000 RPMs in high gear.  I shouldn't need to shift down on a 4 lane freeway to roll past anything from 65 MPH.  I know how to correctly ride a motorcycle, and I know when to shift.  I'm just looking for input on cams and headwork, not drivers education.

Hossamania

If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

rigidthumper

Cylinder pressure builds torque- and the closer to idle your torque peak is, the higher the CCP is going to be. A good tune will help with the detonation, (100 deg heat, 30+ MPH headwinds) but there are limits.
HD 110 drop on (as delivered is 10.21:1 CR), your cams or TTS100s, SEHB, SE58TB, heads ported for usable street torque & port matched to the TB, FS DX head pipe with Crusher mellows or FS baffles in your mufflers, tune it, and bob's your uncle.
If you want a very similar curve with a little more HP, zero deck the cylinders and use a .030 HG, and switch cams to the TTS150 or CR575.
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

harpwrench

Check out this budget build, it's posted in the dyno section but the sheet is gone, reposting from joe's Facebook page.

shindig

How much money do you want to spend?  An s&s 110 kit with s&s 585 cams seems to be the best value.  No headwork, injectors, throttle body upgrades.  Now if you go all in and do heads, throttle body, and injectors than you have a lot to think about.  I would look at a cam around 590 lift with all that work.  Keep CCP in mind too.  Not sure what would be recommended for your application.  For sure under 200.  A professional could chime in there.  Also need to think about your exhaust and if you are upgrading that or keeping whatever you have.  It's the whole build....not just the "best" random parts together.

festus

Why not get a low altitude tune and a high altitude tune, this does help.

Put a DD7 in with a 34 tooth on the tranny. all gears 1-6 lower and 7th a little higher than now.
Prob same price as motor work and better results from what I have run.
Can wait and try to Geta tranny on Baker Black Friday sale......
Nothing is impossible if you don't have to do it yourself.

Hossamania

Quote from: festus on October 01, 2019, 08:29:52 PM
Why not get a low altitude tune and a high altitude tune, this does help.

Put a DD7 in with a 34 tooth on the tranny. all gears 1-6 lower and 7th a little higher than now.
Prob same price as motor work and better results from what I have run.
Can wait and try to Geta tranny on Baker Black Friday sale......

Does this mean he would have to downshift to pass a semi? Unacceptable to the op.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

Barrett

If you're not gonna let the transmission do the work you need more cubes.

Don D


Hossamania

Quote from: Barrett on October 02, 2019, 06:03:38 AM
If you're not gonna let the transmission do the work you need more cubes.

Hence, the reason for asking about the 110 kit, cams, and headwork in the op.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

Barrett

Quote from: Hossamania on October 02, 2019, 08:40:42 AM
Quote from: Barrett on October 02, 2019, 06:03:38 AM
If you're not gonna let the transmission do the work you need more cubes.

Hence, the reason for asking about the 110 kit, cams, and headwork in the op.

I know, I meant more than 110". ;)

Hossamania

Quote from: Barrett on October 02, 2019, 08:54:42 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on October 02, 2019, 08:40:42 AM
Quote from: Barrett on October 02, 2019, 06:03:38 AM
If you're not gonna let the transmission do the work you need more cubes.

Hence, the reason for asking about the 110 kit, cams, and headwork in the op.

I know, I meant more than 110". ;)

I like your thinking!
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.


Don D