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Max Torque 110 Drop on Kit Bagger Build

Started by Winston Wolf, September 30, 2019, 07:28:39 AM

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dheath9994

Personally I wouldn't do any of this without having the bottom end trued and welded at the very least. I did tried, pro plugged, new rods and welded with a Timken conversion on my 110 build. Also you should do a Barnett clutch basket when making over 120ft/lbs or your clutch will more or less just be a time bomb.

I did fuel moto 110
10.4:1 compression
Stage 2 ported and polished heads
Bored and ported stock TB (ported intake to flow match heads and TB)
CR 575 cams
Screaming eagle cam plate and oil pump (runs at about 42lbs of pressure now as opposed to 30)
Wolf alpha lifters
Barnett clutch basket with a Barnett HD spring and AIM vpc68lt for a clutch

I'm making 110hp and 129ft/lbs bike makes over 120ft/lbs from about 2700rpm all the way to just before 5000

Don D

Our Street Pro heads with the Harley or S&S 110 drop on kit will get you into the teens for hp with 130tq.
This has been done many times as long as a recommended pipe and quality tune are used and done.
The pipe will determine the shape of the curve.

Winston Wolf

I installed the 110 kit.  Everything measured out perfect, didn't even have to adjust any of the ring gaps.  I did cc the pistons, and the reliefs are -2.6 cc total per piston. Both pistons came in a .010 down the hole.  So, with 85cc nominal stock heads and a .040 head gasket, it would come in right at the 10.2 as advertised.

Winston Wolf

Attached I what I have now that the engine is together.  Heads are ported and cc'd at 85cc's.  10.39 static. 

I haven't finalized my cam choice yet, so I'd like some opinions.  I was leaning towards the CR575 (ccc of 205), but I'm a bit concerned about detonation in a big bagger with this high of compression. Perhaps a Tman 590PS2 (ccc down to 198).

Any suggestions are welcomed. 

Has anyone tuned the CR575 at the higher compression levels and have a detonation free engine?  I ran that cam 10 years ago at 10:1 in a 95", and had to pull the timing back to stop it from pinging, although it was a carbureted bike...


IronButt70

Quote from: rhuff on September 30, 2019, 08:30:13 PM
The 2015 doesn't usually see 6th until I'm at 80MPH.  No logical reason that RPM's going up appx 200 RPM should be an issue at all. 

And yeah, downshift.
I've often wondered about cruising RPMs and look at it strictly from a numbers point of view. 200 more RPMs means the engine makes 12k more revs per hour. Does that play into the wear factor over time? 100 hours = 1.2 million more revs. Just curious.
No one else put you on the road you're on. It's your own asphalt.

kd

Quote from: IronButt70 on November 19, 2019, 06:50:36 AM
Quote from: rhuff on September 30, 2019, 08:30:13 PM
The 2015 doesn't usually see 6th until I'm at 80MPH.  No logical reason that RPM's going up appx 200 RPM should be an issue at all. 

And yeah, downshift.
I've often wondered about cruising RPMs and look at it strictly from a numbers point of view. 200 more RPMs means the engine makes 12k more revs per hour. Does that play into the wear factor over time? 100 hours = 1.2 million more revs. Just curious.

I'd say the 200 RPM at cruise more causes the engine to run where it is not subjected to hard work.  That is evident by the lower throttle requirement to maintain the chosen speed in headwinds or grades.   My experience is also better mileage which I feel is further evidence that the engine is being taxed to a lesser degree.  I think pushing it to get the job done is more detrimental than the accumulated RPM difference.   
KD

Hossamania

Quote from: kd on November 19, 2019, 07:10:14 AM
Quote from: IronButt70 on November 19, 2019, 06:50:36 AM
Quote from: rhuff on September 30, 2019, 08:30:13 PM
The 2015 doesn't usually see 6th until I'm at 80MPH.  No logical reason that RPM's going up appx 200 RPM should be an issue at all. 

And yeah, downshift.
I've often wondered about cruising RPMs and look at it strictly from a numbers point of view. 200 more RPMs means the engine makes 12k more revs per hour. Does that play into the wear factor over time? 100 hours = 1.2 million more revs. Just curious.

I'd say the 200 RPM at cruise more causes the engine to run where it is not subjected to hard work.  That is evident by the lower throttle requirement to maintain the chosen speed in headwinds or grades.   My experience is also better mileage which I feel is further evidence that the engine is being taxed to a lesser degree.  I think pushing it to get the job done is more detrimental than the accumulated RPM difference.

I tend to agree with this. I run a 95" motor with a cam that makes its power a bit further up the tach. I find that 4th gear at 55 to 60 miles per hour, even 65 based on conditions, actually gets better fuel mileage than 5th gear does, and the motor does not feel sluggish or taxed as it does in 5th. 117,000 miles of high rpm abuse on this motor, and it still runs well. Putting the motor in its sweet spot and running a few more rpms is easier on the motor than lugging it a bit to save accumulated revolutions over the long, and short, haul. This of course my opinion based on beating engines for 40 years, no actual formal education on the subject.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

IronButt70

Quote from: kd on November 19, 2019, 07:10:14 AM
Quote from: IronButt70 on November 19, 2019, 06:50:36 AM
Quote from: rhuff on September 30, 2019, 08:30:13 PM
The 2015 doesn't usually see 6th until I'm at 80MPH.  No logical reason that RPM's going up appx 200 RPM should be an issue at all. 

And yeah, downshift.
I've often wondered about cruising RPMs and look at it strictly from a numbers point of view. 200 more RPMs means the engine makes 12k more revs per hour. Does that play into the wear factor over time? 100 hours = 1.2 million more revs. Just curious.

I'd say the 200 RPM at cruise more causes the engine to run where it is not subjected to hard work.  That is evident by the lower throttle requirement to maintain the chosen speed in headwinds or grades.   My experience is also better mileage which I feel is further evidence that the engine is being taxed to a lesser degree.  I think pushing it to get the job done is more detrimental than the accumulated RPM difference.
I've read about RPMs and mileage and I have tested that but found in my case no measurable difference other than riding against strong headwinds. I never lug the engine and have specific shift patterns like never below 30 in 3rd, 40 in 4th, 55 in 5th and 70 in 6th. I don't ride hard but I do "get on it" every now and then to blow out the carbon so to speak. 52k trouble free miles in 2 1/2 years and counting so far so I like to think I'm doing the right things.  :smiled:
No one else put you on the road you're on. It's your own asphalt.

Durwood

Quote from: Winston Wolf on November 19, 2019, 06:25:57 AM
Attached I what I have now that the engine is together.  Heads are ported and cc'd at 85cc's.  10.39 static. 

I haven't finalized my cam choice yet, so I'd like some opinions.  I was leaning towards the CR575 (ccc of 205), but I'm a bit concerned about detonation in a big bagger with this high of compression. Perhaps a Tman 590PS2 (ccc down to 198).

Any suggestions are welcomed. 

Has anyone tuned the CR575 at the higher compression levels and have a detonation free engine?  I ran that cam 10 years ago at 10:1 in a 95", and had to pull the timing back to stop it from pinging, although it was a carbureted bike...


I have. The CR-575 will work well at your calculated ccp.

Don D

Has anyone tuned the CR575 at the higher compression levels and have a detonation free engine?

Yes and that is the 130tq option.

Marty33


dheath9994

For big bore kit
Heads
Cams
Flywheel and case work
Plus the clutch setup
I'd have to look at receipts but probably around $3000

spdrcr

Look at the 110 Drop in that's by Just Nick in the Dyno section.

harvman

Winston, what cam did you go with and what kind of #'s did you get? Was it worth the change from your old build with the 570-2?


CVOThunder

That works Don. Also liking the one Steve did as well but almost puts it into the "tear the bottom down for Timken bearing mod" territory. Wouldn't hurt either one I reckon. My 2011 110 CVO would benefit from everything but piston and jug upgrade. We'll see where I'm at this winter.

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,103888.msg1228450.html#msg1228450
Photons by the bag. Gravitons not  shipped outside the US.

Hillside Motorcycle

Most 110" drop -on's will push 130 fT/lbs here.
.575, Andrews 57, Wood 408-6, are 3 of which we've seen do it.
Otto Knowbetter sez, "Even a fish wouldn't get caught if he kept his mouth shut"

Bafflingbs

August 05, 2020, 04:58:27 PM #42 Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 05:12:22 PM by Bafflingbs
I'm at 117hp/130tq with my 110" using 10.5/1 CP pistons, Woods 999-6A cams, level b heads and a ported 50mm throttle body.
2015 FLHXS: 117hp/130tq FM 110", Darkhorse Man-O-War crank
Retired Motor Officer

Thermodyne

Just put a Tire shredder kit on it.  Its the most bang for the buck out there. 

With a set of 585ez's in place of the 259e's mine pulled at 129/125 tuned with a Thundermax using a Jackpot pipe and V&H High output cans.


Deye76

August 07, 2020, 04:09:22 PM #44 Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 04:14:00 PM by Deye76
Is the OP (Winston) at sea level?
East Tenn.<br /> 2020 Lowrider S Touring, 2014 CVO RK,  1992 FXRP

George W

Quote from: Thermodyne on August 07, 2020, 09:46:34 AM
Just put a Tire shredder kit on it.  Its the most bang for the buck out there. 

With a set of 585ez's in place of the 259e's mine pulled at 129/125 tuned with a Thundermax using a Jackpot pipe and V&H High output cans.

I would love to see your Dyno Sheet..


Tail Ridr

Eliminate the Imperfections of mass production!

Thermodyne

To be completely truthfull, it had some extra TLC during the build.  The heads were cleaned up, the Harley cnc work is pretty rough.  And it got a set of 010 over rings filed to the minimum gap spec.  The rings that came with had huge gaps.  Its also on top of a set of S&S wheels that were balanced to the piston package weight with a Timken conversion.

spdrcr

There are several VERY experienced head porters, engine builders, and tuners that have responded here. If you need help choosing one? PM me.