Wheel bearings

[HogMike]

Anyone else had wheel bearings go bad on a new bike?
Mine also impacted the abs system.
2019 cvo limited , 6000 miles

[chaos901]

I've had lots of wheel bearings go bad, but not in only 6,000 miles.  Doing any riding on the beach?

[IronButt70]

Anyone else had wheel bearings go bad on a new bike?
Mine also impacted the abs system.
2019 cvo limited , 6000 miles

Have heard of failures at 10k miles. The ABS sensor reads a strip that is in the bearing as it rotates. That would probably explain the ABS problem. Warranty?

[No Cents]

  on my 08 street glide I replaced the factory wheel bearings with these ceramic bearings.

[attach=0]

  I couldn't be more pleased with the performance of these ceramic bearings. They do cost more...but you get what you pay for.

[HogMike]

  on my 08 street glide I replaced the factory wheel bearings with these ceramic bearings.

[attach=0,msg1309545]

  I couldn't be more pleased with the performance of these ceramic bearings. They do cost more...but you get what you pay for.

Those would be nice but, not too sure the dealer would do that under warranty! My dealer is getting lots better with customer service.
My other bikes had bearings go bad, but that was usually close to 100,000 miles.
I'm hoping this was just an anomaly.
Yes the abs bearing messes up the abs system and you get a sort of partial abs activation. Feels pretty weird.

[jamminhd2000]

The earliest I have seen em bad was at about 23k miles....as soon as I saw that I replaced all of my bearings on my bike at 50k miles good or not.....jimmy

[Screamin beagle]

  on my 08 street glide I replaced the factory wheel bearings with these ceramic bearings.

[attach=0,msg1309545]

  I couldn't be more pleased with the performance of these ceramic bearings. They do cost more...but you get what you pay for.

I've been looking at those ceramic bearings but can't find ones with the abs strip in it....have you found any ?

[No Cents]

  they offer both non- ABS, and ABS ceramic bearings.
My bike took the ABS bearings.

[ThumperDeuce]

I've posted this link before:

https://youtu.be/VowfmpIpi0w

[Hossamania]

I've posted this link before:

https://youtu.be/VowfmpIpi0w

Now I need ceramic bearings!

[No Cents]

  Hoss...the front and rear ceramic bearings for my ABS bike was just a touch under $400.00 way back in 2014. In a few months those bearing will have 5 years on them. They have taken a pounding with some hard wheelies slammed down on them over the years. I'm talking about the "oh "Potty mouth"" type wheelies, where the back fender is almost dragging the street.    They definitely have with stood the pounding I've gave them over the past 5 years.

[boooby1744]

I have them also, and at the same time also took a few lbs off the bike. Much easier to move around .
Nice video, there's also a good article in Drag Bike magazine,it's probably on the second or third page in the tech section by now.

[1workinman]

  Hoss...the front and rear ceramic bearings for my ABS bike was just a touch under $400.00 way back in 2014. In a few months those bearing will have 5 years on them. They have taken a pounding with some hard wheelies slammed down on them over the years. I'm talking about the "oh "Potty mouth"" type wheelies, where the back fender is almost dragging the street.    They definitely have with stood the pounding I've gave them over the past 5 years.

Pictures lol next time I do the wheel bearings I give them a try thanks

[barny7655]

Id be looking at the cause of the failed bearing , take it apart and have a look at it ,mainly the sides where the ball runs ,outer and inner races ,be sure that the spacer tube is the right length,not to short as to put undue pressure on the bearings, found most failed ones are due to im proper bearing install,and not pressed in on the inner bearing case,must be outer case, to meet the inner tube, so when the axel is torqued up to specs the rollers are mid point in the  race, and not hitting the inner or outer edges of the race ,cheers Barny

[HogMike]

Id be looking at the cause of the failed bearing , take it apart and have a look at it ,mainly the sides where the ball runs ,outer and inner races ,be sure that the spacer tube is the right length,not to short as to put undue pressure on the bearings, found most failed ones are due to im proper bearing install,and not pressed in on the inner bearing case,must be outer case, to meet the inner tube, so when the axel is torqued up to specs the rollers are mid point in the  race, and not hitting the inner or outer edges of the race ,cheers Barny

I would hope the tech at the dealership would like to know the "why" they both failed not just slap some new ones in and send you on your way.

[barny7655]

There are always reasons for this type a failure , its old school to investigate as to why ,then work out solution ,fix the problem , not as a repair as it will come back to bite you , these are single row bearings,  and install is critical ,the HD mechanics arent worrried of the whys, they just repair , may be the bearing was faulty from the start ?, warrenty item ,get back to us of their solution , cheers

[HogMike]

There are always reasons for this type a failure , its old school to investigate as to why ,then work out solution ,fix the problem , not as a repair as it will come back to bite you , these are single row bearings,  and install is critical ,the HD mechanics arent worrried of the whys, they just repair , may be the bearing was faulty from the start ?, warrenty item ,get back to us of their solution , cheers

At this point I have to let the dealer do any repairs their way because the bike is new and under warranty.
I'm loosing confidence that this bike will be reliable after the warranty is up. I didn't buy this bike to keep bringing it back to the dealer for all the various repairs.
It seems that only the most recent 2016 and newer touring bikes have had multiple issues.
My older 2009 and 2010 and 2014 were trouble free and many many miles.
Is QC the issue? Don't know, but it looks like this is my last new Harley.

[IronButt70]

There are always reasons for this type a failure , its old school to investigate as to why ,then work out solution ,fix the problem , not as a repair as it will come back to bite you , these are single row bearings,  and install is critical ,the HD mechanics arent worrried of the whys, they just repair , may be the bearing was faulty from the start ?, warrenty item ,get back to us of their solution , cheers

At this point I have to let the dealer do any repairs their way because the bike is new and under warranty.
I'm loosing confidence that this bike will be reliable after the warranty is up. I didn't buy this bike to keep bringing it back to the dealer for all the various repairs.
It seems that only the most recent 2016 and newer touring bikes have had multiple issues.
My older 2009 and 2010 and 2014 were trouble free and many many miles.
Is QC the issue? Don't know, but it looks like this is my last new Harley.

It's the 17 and newer tourers with the M8 that seem to have the most issues. My 17 softail with the TC is set up for touring and the only issue was the rear caliper that was replaced under warranty. Because I ride a lot out of state I bought the 3 year ESP (not from the dealer) for piece of mind. 45k miles and counting.

[PoorUB]

It seems that only the most recent 2016 and newer touring bikes have had multiple issues.
My older 2009 and 2010 and 2014 were trouble free and many many miles.
Is QC the issue? Don't know, but it looks like this is my last new Harley.

My 2016 has been trouble free, 28,000 miles on it.

Like the other post, it came one with the M8 in 2017.

[BillyBob]

So now that we're on the subject, I have a question.I ride a 2005 RK which I replaced the wheel bearings on 10,000 miles ago. It is now in some serious crap because one of them failed. Obviously something I did wrong. Just got it back from the dealer after he said they were going to have to cut the swing arm to get the rear axle out. $1400.00 part just that. I said I would come and get it so it's in my shop as we speak. Here's my question- if you consider that the bearings sit in what are effectively cups, one on each side of the hub, measuring the distance between the bottom of the cups will give you a dimension. should that be the exact dimension of the length of the spacer in the axle, a few thousands less, a few thousands more?

[chaos901]

Just got it back from the dealer after he said they were going to have to cut the swing arm to get the rear axle out.

Don't know the answer to your question, but to the above, surely the axel can be "driven" out.  Even if you have to take the swing arm off the bike with the axel still in place.

[Hossamania]

Just got it back from the dealer after he said they were going to have to cut the swing arm to get the rear axle out.

Don't know the answer to your question, but to the above, surely the axel can be "driven" out.  Even if you have to take the swing arm off the bike with the axel still in place.

I agree. Worst case, cut the the axle, right through the spacers if need be, remove the wheel, and go from there.

[BillyBob]

Well I thought so, but after I pounded on it pretty good, I decided to bite the bullet and take it to Harley. I was afraid I was going to damage the swing arm. Surely I thought they have seen this before , and have an idea how hard you can hit it or some other trick method to get it out. Looks like they cut the head ( left side) of the axle off and tried to drive it out to the right. No go. I told them if you have to sacrifice something, how about the wheel? Cheaper than the swing arm. I plan to try to cut the axle and spacers with a cutoff disc. I realize it won't be easy, but that's my first choice. Hell, you can buy everything between the rear fork, that is, wheel, spacers, axle, and caliper for less than the swing arm itself. I did find another swing arm just in case though.

[Hossamania]

Try a Sawzall to cut through the spacers and axle, I think it would get in there easier than a cut off wheel.

[koko3052]

I would just make a press, with  the arms holding a plate on the opposite side of the swingarm, that way everything is compacted & only pressing the axle. I have NEVER seen anything that tight & can't see a reason for it. A couple pieces 3/4" all thread, a couple heavy plates & a small bottle jack....has to be cheaper than buying the axle & spacers?
Before trying that I would use an air chisel with a punch end on it, have someone back up the other side with something very stout. Drill a little divit on the end where you'll be using the air punch so you don't flare that end. A "rattle" will move more than heavy pounding!

[chaos901]

I was thinking parking the bike with the left side about 24" from a wall (concrete would be best), cutting a 2x4 strut between the wall and the swingarm close to the axel but not on the axel.  Bike up right on a scissor jack.  Punch and five pound hammer.  The drive from the hammer will transfer thru the axel and any force not used to actually move the axel will go thru the strut and be distributed against the wall; the swing arm should not be taking any load really.  If the wall you have is CMU or good wood studs put 1/2 sheet of 3/4 plywood over the wall for the strut to rest against so that the load is distributed.  Works like a press. 

Now I was a carpenter so I think in terms of wood as my first choice but the previous suggestion with the plates and the all-thread looks good too.   

[PoorUB]

I agree, cut off the axle. On a bagger I  would  cut the left side off close as possible  to the wheel, then move the wheel to the left and cut the right side. All you need is an axle and spacers and the axle is probably  shot anyway.

Not picking on dealer  mechanics but many guys don't have the experience on how to hack something apart.

I remember a friend hade a wheel bearing fail to the point of falling apart.  The dealer sold him a new wheel because  the outer race was seized in the bore of the wheel and they couldn't pull it out so the wheel was shot. Now I  never saw the wheel but the bearing is supposed to be seized in the wheel. I was thinking they just had no clue how to get the bearing race out with a bearing that fell apart. Perhaps the wheel was shot but he had looked at it and said he didn't see any damage the the bearing  bores.

[BillyBob]

Try a Sawzall to cut through the spacers and axle, I think it would get in there easier than a cut off wheel.

I thought about that too. The axle doesn't seem that hard, but the spacers are really hardened. I was thinking a carbide blade, or diamond maybe. The other suggestions are all good, I just have an issue with beating on something too hard. We'll see where this goes.

[PoorUB]

I don't believe the spacers are hardened.

[Hossamania]

There's one way to find out.

[Hossamania]

A quick failed bearing story: we were following a friend, taking his old Shovel in for a complete ground up rebuild. As we are following, I notice his rear wheel slightly cocked sideways, figured it was a bent swingarm as it was a POS and he beat hell out of it.
When it was disassembled, there was no bearing in the wheel, it had failed who knows how long ago, and the wheel was just riding directly on the axle, wearing a groove into it. How that cast wheel didn't just disintegrate, I'll never know.
Did I mention that at many times on that ride, and most others before, he had it up to 80 mph or more?
God looks out for children and fools.

[BillyBob]

There's one way to find out.

Well yesterday I ran a file on a spacer I have here, and it didn't dig in at all, just skated over it. Did the same to the axle, and it dug right in, so I just assumed that the spacer was hardened steel.

[PoorUB]

There's one way to find out.

Well yesterday I ran a file on a spacer I have here, and it didn't dig in at all, just skated over it. Did the same to the axle, and it dug right in, so I just assumed that the spacer was hardened steel.

Well, crap! that makes it more difficult.

I wonder if you could pull the swing arm with the wheel and axle still in place, then get it to a hydraulic press.

Can you spread the swing arm slightly, just enough to get a sawz-all blade along side the spacer?

[Hossamania]

I'd still give the Sawzall a try. Maybe you could get a start on it with cut off wheel to get into it, then hit it with the Sawzall.

[barny7655]

One bearing butts up against the inner wheel hub flange end,this bearing is fixed in its location , the other bearing some what floats, near the other hub outer flange end, only to be aligned by the inner wheel spacer after the axel shaft  is torqued up,since the floated bearing is pressed in, its measurement is dictated by that spacer,could be 2/3 mill from hub flange end, so putting your finger in the bearing hole one can tell how far you are from the spacer ,and if spacer is loose,keep  pressing that bearing in until it butts up against that spacer so the balls will be mid ship on both bearings after the axel is torqued up , this spacer is torqued to the axel nuts settings  against the bearings and wheel spacers, hope this explains what happens , cheers

[chaos901]

If you want to cut it, surely with the nut off the axel you can get enough slack to get a blade to the axel.  A 1/16" should be enough.  I know when I am installing my wheels I have to hold everything up until the axel is in place or else it hits the ground, there is some slack there.

[BillyBob]

Well when this is all over I'll be sure to inform you guys as to my results, Thank you.

[BillyBob]

A quick update. I ended up cutting the axle with a 4 inch cutting wheel in my die grinder. Had to remove all the sprocket and brake rotor bolts except one and put that one one the bottom so I wouldn't hit it. Had to remove a bunch of other stuff to get to it but no biggie. The right side one is kind of a bitch because you have to cut through the spacer which you know is real thin, and you're trying not to damage the caliper. Didn't take too long though, a couple of hours. End of story is right side bearing totally shot, some balls missing. Galled the inner race to the shaft, but doesn't look like it was hot, had to cut the bearing off to look at it. Also screwed up the inner wheel spacer. The service dept at the Harley shop called yesterday and asked whether I had got it taken care of. He said, " In all my years working here that's the first one I've seen that we couldn't get out." Anyway, I'm making a parts list now for fixing it. I just wish I knew what I did wrong last time. I suspect maybe I didn't get the drive side bearing pressed all the way home.

[rredneckn2]

Anti-seize on the axle. Don't wash the bike with high pressure

[Dan89flstc]

Put it in a hydraulic press and push the axle out.

[PoorUB]

I am sure you know the procedure, but you drive the brake side bearing all the way to the bottom of the bore. Then drop in the spacer and drive in the pulley side until it contacts the spacer. Is it easy for the spacer to be cocked slightly, it needs to be inline or the bearing will not press in as far as it should. Some time ago guys mentioned using PCV tubing to line up the spacer and bearings. If you find a piece of 3/4" diameter PVC pipe and slit it along the length it will fit snuggly in the bearings and spacer.

If you don't have a good bearing remover/installer, buy one. Also if you use and installer use the flat side of the puller plates when driving in the second bearing. That will make sure the inner and outer races are pressed in the same depth and not under or over driven. When driving the bearings in you need to press on the outer races and inner races at the same time.

Earlier you mentioned the spacer length. With ball bearings it will be longer than the distance between the counter bores. It can be longer, much longer, just not shorter. The length of the spacer is no critical like it is with tapered bearings. On my 2010 Ultra it was maybe 1/2" longer than the distance between the counter bores.

[BillyBob]

I am sure you know the procedure, but you drive the brake side bearing all the way to the bottom of the bore. Then drop in the spacer and drive in the pulley side until it contacts the spacer. Is it easy for the spacer to be cocked slightly, it needs to be inline or the bearing will not press in as far as it should. Some time ago guys mentioned using PCV tubing to line up the spacer and bearings. If you find a piece of 3/4" diameter PVC pipe and slit it along the length it will fit snuggly in the bearings and spacer.

If you don't have a good bearing remover/installer, buy one. Also if you use and installer use the flat side of the puller plates when driving in the second bearing. That will make sure the inner and outer races are pressed in the same depth and not under or over driven. When driving the bearings in you need to press on the outer races and inner races at the same time.

Earlier you mentioned the spacer length. With ball bearings it will be longer than the distance between the counter bores. It can be longer, much longer, just not shorter. The length of the spacer is no critical like it is with tapered bearings. On my 2010 Ultra it was maybe 1/2" longer than the distance between the counter bores.

Thanks for the info about the spacer. I do have the proper puller/ installer that I bought from George's garage a few years ago. The business about the spacer being cocked or out of wack is good to know. I put these bearing in according to the manual, right side first all the way to the bottom of the cup, then the left side until it stopped. I didn't think about the spacer though, good to know. Thanks

[PoorUB]

I have the George's Garage puller/installer too. I don't know why, but the one side of the pusher washers has a step in it so it only pushes on the outer race. Don't use this side of the washers against the bearings, flip them over and use the flat side of the washers.

[BillyBob]

I have the George's Garage puller/installer too. I don't know why, but the one side of the pusher washers has a step in it so it only pushes on the outer race. Don't use this side of the washers against the bearings, flip them over and use the flat side of the washers.

I can see why you said that, probably fine on the brake side where you're pressing it in until the outer race bottoms in the cup. The other side where you're pressing until the inner race contacts the spacer you'd want to press on the whole bearing so as not to preload it sideways by pushing the outer race too deep.

[jamminhd2000]

2013 Dyna Fatbob 31k miles.....just pulled this out just now....jimmy

[PoorUB]

2013 Dyna Fatbob 31k miles.....just pulled this out just now....jimmy

Probably should replace that one.

[barny7655]

One has to understand the practice of pressing bearings the right way ,inner /or outer face depending on whats its function, wheel bearings into the hub , the outer case pressed in towards the hub face, if the bearings entire face is square,a flat thick washer can be used to press as it wont preload the balls in the race denting the race ,a smear of lube will square the install of the bearing  in the hub and bearing outer,