Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I'm building my "02 clutch with a new Barnett cable, new set of Alto red eagle friction and steel plate kit, installed with an SE diaphragm spring on my 95" build that should see 90 /90 plus or minus 5 TQ / HP...
I really want the AIM VP set up but at the moment have to make do with what I have. I have the Muller power clutch ball and ramp set up and an easy boy burly kit. Will they work with each other (both installed together?)
Thanks, I'm needing all the SE clutch spring - lever pull reduction help I can get. Cheers
use the Muller and forget that easy boy, better still put it in the rubbish bin
my 03 Fatty has a Muller and a AIM VPC
an extra I'd do is put a spring over the clutch cable inner to push the Muller back into the home position
some reading if you've not seen it before https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,96629.msg1124601.html#msg1124601
Quote from: FSG on May 14, 2021, 02:20:51 AM
use the Muller and forget that easy boy, better still put it in the rubbish bin
my 03 Fatty has a Muller and a AIM VPC
an extra I'd do is put a spring over the clutch cable inner to push the Muller back into the home position
Thanks FSG.
I'll take that as a NO 😁
I just don't think the Muller will reduce the clutch lever pull enough.. until I can afford the VP as well. 👍
it will :SM:
also https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,63622.msg
Quote from: FSG on May 14, 2021, 02:33:59 AM
it will
Try it, you'll like it.
If you were to use both the Muller and the Easy Boy, you would never get the clutch to adjust properly, or even disengage.
The Muller reduced the pull significantly on my 110 with a SE spring. The big problem was that it wouldn't stay in adjustment very long. I needed to adjust it every few weeks. I went back to stock and installed a VPC in mid-2019, and I haven't needed to adjust it since. The pull is very light.
Quote from: Hossamania on May 14, 2021, 04:14:54 AM
Quote from: FSG on May 14, 2021, 02:33:59 AM
it will
Try it, you'll like it.
If you were to use both the Muller and the Easy Boy, you would never get the clutch to adjust properly, or even disengage.
Thanks Hoss, good to know :up:
Quote from: Jim Bronson on May 14, 2021, 06:01:54 PM
The Muller reduced the pull significantly on my 110 with a SE spring. The big problem was that it wouldn't stay in adjustment very long. I needed to adjust it every few weeks. I went back to stock and installed a VPC in mid-2019, and I haven't needed to adjust it since. The pull is very light.
Thanks for the info Jim, much appreciated
For info, I had an Easy Boy on my bike for maybe two days, it was nearly impossible to adjust the clutch properly with it. To be fair, this was with a Pro Clutch, but I doubt that makes any difference.
We put a Muller and new cable on a friend's '06 Heritage, it was like butter, smoothe and light handle pull, works great. I was quite surprised at how light the action was. It will be going on both of mine eventually.
Once you realize the principal of the Muller is changing the ratio of the release lever and that results in less overall release pushrod travel you are part of the way to a successful adjustment. Having a spring on the transmission end of the cable to push the lever to the full release position at rest is the second useful item. With reduced pushrod travel, the adjustment is critical and yes, starting out with a new cable can help. It is also important that the cable end ferrule that fits into the clutch handle bracket is straight and not pulled to the side by the way the cable is routed. If it is not, that will effect the free play at the lever.
The Muller adjustment is set with barely noticeable free play at the lever. This won't be a problem especially if you have installed a return spring. That will keep the release bearing disengaged when the lever is at rest. As the engine and transmission warm up, the expansion in the transmission and clutch components start to produce more free play at the lever and you will notice it if you check. Because of the reduced travel the engagement zone is now closer to the handlebar and the zone is longer so feathering the clutch is more friendly.
As I said, once you master the adjustment it's a cake walk. The Muller lever will do everything they say it will.
Nothing wrong with the easy boy style arm as along as you spend time clearancing the outer cover.. It can rub against the inside of the cover in a couple places plus the arm hits the boss that holds the shift fork rod in place. That boss also needs relieving. Once done along with thinning the cable spacer and adding an O ring they work quite well. They do work better with the early TC 21 degree ramps. The 18s will work fine if the damping spring in the clutch is removed.
Quote from: kd on May 15, 2021, 07:48:47 AM
Once you realize the principal of the Muller is changing the ratio of the release lever and that results in less overall release pushrod travel you are part of the way to a successful adjustment. Having a spring on the transmission end of the cable to push the lever to the full release position at rest is the second useful item. With reduced pushrod travel, the adjustment is critical and yes, starting out with a new cable can help. It is also important that the cable end ferrule that fits into the clutch handle bracket is straight and not pulled to the side by the way the cable is routed. If it is not, that will effect the free play at the lever.
The Muller adjustment is set with barely noticeable free play at the lever. This won't be a problem especially if you have installed a return spring. That will keep the release bearing disengaged when the lever is at rest. As the engine and transmission warm up, the expansion in the transmission and clutch components start to produce more free play at the lever and you will notice it if you check. Because of the reduced travel the engagement zone is now closer to the handlebar and the zone is longer so feathering the clutch is more friendly.
As I said, once you master the adjustment it's a cake walk. The Muller lever will do everything they say it will.
Thanks kd, great info on the adjustment. :up:
Quote from: Admiral Akbar on May 15, 2021, 11:34:05 AM
Nothing wrong with the easy boy style arm as along as you spend time clearancing the outer cover.. It can rub against the inside of the cover in a couple places plus the arm hits the boss that holds the shift fork rod in place. That boss also needs relieving. Once done along with thinning the cable spacer and adding an O ring they work quite well. They do work better with the early TC 21 degree ramps. The 18s will work fine if the damping spring in the clutch is removed.
Thanks, that's good to know. :up:
I think I'm going to run the muller with the new cable and see how it feels.
Quote from: FSG on May 14, 2021, 02:33:59 AM
it will :SM:
also https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,63622.msg
FSG, where would I find the spring you're referring to for the transmission end of the cable?
Thanks
When you get the spring in place it makes it a little tricky to feel the free play but not impossible. Just be aware when you do adjust it and all is good. One of the other members (fbn) found he had to secure the clutch cable to align the ferrule at the handle and get that fine adjustment to work. He used a tie wrap to get him by. I got a little OCD and used a clamp. I also splurged and put on an Oberon clutch lever that has more travel and makes up for a bit of the lost travel.
Quote from: kd on May 15, 2021, 06:40:52 PM
When you get the spring in place it makes it a little tricky to feel the free play but not impossible. Just be aware when you do adjust it and all is good. One of the other members (fbn) found he had to secure the clutch cable to align the ferrule at the handle and get that fine adjustment to work. He used a tie wrap to get him by. I got a little OCD and used a clamp. I also splurged and put on an Oberon clutch lever that has more travel and makes up for a bit of the lost travel.
Thanks kd, I was also conspiring the adjustable oberon clutch lever.... where is the best place to get one from?
I don't remember where mine came from. It may have been from them when I called to make sure it would give me a little extra travel. I did measure the pressure plate travel before and after and it did give me a little. Enough to give me within the recommended spec (.058 up to .068 ??) for my Bandit clutch. We had a thread running on here and my numbers are in that thread. I would suggest you get in touch with California Phil, a vendor on this site. You won't be sorry.
Here (https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,103364.msg1225021.html#msg1225021) is the thread I mentioned.
Quote from: Adam76 on May 15, 2021, 06:00:29 PM
Quote from: FSG on May 14, 2021, 02:33:59 AM
it will :SM:
also https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,63622.msg
FSG, where would I find the spring you're referring to for the transmission end of the cable?
Thanks
you'd prolly find one suitable at a general hardware store, next I visit bunnys I'll look at their stock
HD had problems when the ramps were first introduced in the Evos, poor adjustment wore/destroyed the wafer bearings, so they came out with a simple temporary fix and that was to put a spring over the inner cable at the trannie end, that spring was previously used in the Shovel Transmissions so they were readily available, your local indie may have a stash of them
kd I like the use of the P-Clamp :up:
(https://i.imgur.com/7uKr4z5.png)
Quote from: FSG on May 15, 2021, 08:31:42 PM
Quote from: Adam76 on May 15, 2021, 06:00:29 PM
Quote from: FSG on May 14, 2021, 02:33:59 AM
it will :SM:
also https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,63622.msg
FSG, where would I find the spring you're referring to for the transmission end of the cable?
Thanks
you'd prolly find one suitable at a general hardware store, next I visit bunnys I'll look at their stock
HD had problems when the ramps were first introduced in the Evos, poor adjustment wore/destroyed the wafer bearings, so they came out with a simple temporary fix and that was to put a spring over the inner cable at the trannie end, that spring was previously used in the Shovel Transmissions so they were readily available, your local indie may have a stash of them
I use a jobber spring and have a few in my tool box stash. It's slightly finer than the shovel spring but plenty stiff enough to positively reseat the lever.
That "P" clamp is a 2 for $6 - 1" ebay motorcycle mirror bracket.
Quote from: kd on May 15, 2021, 07:04:06 PM
I don't remember where mine came from. It may have been from them when I called to make sure it would give me a little extra travel. I did measure the pressure plate travel before and after and it did give me a little. Enough to give me within the recommended spec (.058 up to .068 ??) for my Bandit clutch. We had a thread running on here and my numbers are in that thread. I would suggest you get in touch with California Phil, a vendor on this site. You won't be sorry.
Here (https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,103364.msg1225021.html#msg1225021) is the thread I mentioned.
Thanks 👍
Quote from: FSG on May 15, 2021, 08:31:42 PM
Quote from: Adam76 on May 15, 2021, 06:00:29 PM
Quote from: FSG on May 14, 2021, 02:33:59 AM
it will :SM:
also https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,63622.msg
FSG, where would I find the spring you're referring to for the transmission end of the cable?
Thanks
you'd prolly find one suitable at a general hardware store, next I visit bunnys I'll look at their stock
HD had problems when the ramps were first introduced in the Evos, poor adjustment wore/destroyed the wafer bearings, so they came out with a simple temporary fix and that was to put a spring over the inner cable at the trannie end, that spring was previously used in the Shovel Transmissions so they were readily available, your local indie may have a stash of them
Thanks 👍 I like any excuse to go to bunnings
That original Harley tranny spring that works so well is obsolete, but I found springs at HomeDepot that work just as well.
~John
Have your Indy order them from Uncle Tedd.
https://www2.vtwinmfg.com/transmission-pawl-carrier-spring.html
or they can order them from Eastern Motorcycle Parts by the HD number. 33201-79
I think it was FSG that gave the measurements. I got a few for pocket change from an assortment spring jobber supply. They were slightly finer wire but work well.