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fork fluid change 2012 ultra

Started by bobrk1, January 27, 2019, 06:22:36 AM

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Norton Commando

Quote from: PoorUB on January 28, 2019, 05:14:23 PM
Quote from: Norton Commando on January 28, 2019, 04:27:42 PM
Quote from: PIRSCH FIRE WAGON on January 28, 2019, 01:24:54 PM
2012 is relatively easy. Loosen the Fork Caps, Drain the Fluid, put in 8 oz and adjust 125mm, replace Cap Seal, and be on your way.


Sure, if you say it real fast there's nothing to it. But I can assure you it's not that simple, hence the discussion about the Mytivac.

Jason

It is not that difficult either. I would change out the fork oil on my 2010 in about an hour, filling from the top.

I could never get the Mitey-Vac to pull enough vacuum to draw up the new oil. It appeared to me the fork seals didn't want to hold a vacuum.

Dicking around with the ignition switch, removing the switch cover, removing the fork caps, purchasing new quad seals, and blah, blah ,blah may be easy for some folks, but in my mind there should be an easier way.  And the Mytivac method, if it works, is the way to go.

You may be right in that there may not be sufficient vacuum to draw up the new fork oil; I will try it this spring and report back.

Best,

Jason 
Remember, you can sleep in your car, but you can't drive your house.

Coyote

Quote from: Norton Commando on January 28, 2019, 04:27:42 PM
Quote from: PIRSCH FIRE WAGON on January 28, 2019, 01:24:54 PM
2012 is relatively easy. Loosen the Fork Caps, Drain the Fluid, put in 8 oz and adjust 125mm, replace Cap Seal, and be on your way.


Sure, if you say real fast there's nothing to it. But I can assure you it's not that simple, hence the discussion about the Mytivac.

Jason

Actually it really is that simple. I've done it a bunch of different ways. Drain at the bottom, fill at the top is quick and easy.  :nix:

Hossamania

On my 2012 Ultra I'm doing it the old fashioned way. I'm having my indie do it while he spoons on two new tires.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

seehogs

In my experience you will need about 30" of vacuum to get all the fork oil
back in.  I use an air powered system now. very fast with little mess, and up on table
it is easier on my back.
The hand pump types never drew enough vacuum for mr.

chaos901

I suppose the vac would work OK but the drain bottom and fill top is really simple.  Just different strokes for different folks. 
"There are only two truly infinite things, the universe and stupidity." AE

Ghost Rider

Those that have used the drain out the bottom method on the 2010-2013 fairing models equipped with damper valves are you all feeling like you are getting most of the old dirty oil by just draining out the bottom? -  I have been told a significant amount will remain inside the tube. Or maybe just a small amount is left inside but enough for the engineers to call for dis-assembly of the fork. I'm thinking they wanted to ensure a complete drain.... they also extended the service interval to 50,000 miles about that time.

rbabos

Quote from: Ghost Rider on January 29, 2019, 08:49:02 AM
Those that have used the drain out the bottom method on the 2010-2013 fairing models equipped with damper valves are you all feeling like you are getting most of the old dirty oil by just draining out the bottom? -  I have been told a significant amount will remain inside the tube. Or maybe just a small amount is left inside but enough for the engineers to call for dis-assembly of the fork. I'm thinking they wanted to ensure a complete drain.... they also extended the service interval to 50,000 miles about that time.
True, there will some left in the damper(s) but think of it as an engine oil change. It gets rid of most of the crud but not all, even if one cycles the forks to bleed most of the damper fluid out. It's amazing how much dusty substance sticks to the walls and springs even with a full drain. Disassembly is really the only way to get it back to spotless but in many ways overkill for the task. It's not like HD forks are a work of art anyway.
Ron

Ghost Rider

Quote from: rbabos on January 29, 2019, 09:13:30 AM
Quote from: Ghost Rider on January 29, 2019, 08:49:02 AM
Those that have used the drain out the bottom method on the 2010-2013 fairing models equipped with damper valves are you all feeling like you are getting most of the old dirty oil by just draining out the bottom? -  I have been told a significant amount will remain inside the tube. Or maybe just a small amount is left inside but enough for the engineers to call for dis-assembly of the fork. I'm thinking they wanted to ensure a complete drain.... they also extended the service interval to 50,000 miles about that time.
True, there will some left in the damper(s) but think of it as an engine oil change. It gets rid of most of the crud but not all, even if one cycles the forks to bleed most of the damper fluid out. It's amazing how much dusty substance sticks to the walls and springs even with a full drain. Disassembly is really the only way to get it back to spotless but in many ways overkill for the task. It's not like HD forks are a work of art anyway.
Ron

Thanks for confirming. It's like an oil change, only catch might be there is no way to measure/calibrate the oil level but should be able to get close enough as long as I am sure there are equal amounts of oil in each side to begin with.

smoserx1

QuoteThanks for confirming. It's like an oil change, only catch might be there is no way to measure/calibrate the oil level but should be able to get close enough as long as I am sure there are equal amounts of oil in each side to begin with.

Tell you what happened to me once.  I let my (now out of business) dealer do my first fork oil change on my FLHT and they totally forgot to refill the left leg.  I found it out 10000 miles later when I did the second change myself and got a normal amount out of the right and maybe a tablespoon out of the left.  To be honest I never noticed any handling quirks, pulling to one side etc.  I read about this once and the article I read implied the oil is there to control damping in the fork and not much else.  The weight of the oil is a big factor in the damping effect but not the level.  As long as there is enough oil to submerge the damper tube assembly and all those little holes are submerged, any extra above it  will have little to no effect effect unless it gets so high in the tube that it interferes with the fork moving up and down...in other words causing a hydrostatic lock.  I did fill the forks of a Honda all the way up when I was a kid just to see and it turned the front end into a rigid suspension.  Since most fork oil comes in 16 ounce containers I just install (with a vacuum pump) 8 ounces in each leg and call it a day.

04 SE Deuce

Fork oil level is a very common tuning element in telescopic forks.

The smaller the "air space" the more progressive the "air spring" becomes. 

Long before adding so much oil that hydraulic lock is reached you will experience a firmer spring rate deep into travel, before the fork bottoms...reason why higher oil level is used to increase bottoming resistance.

IronMike113

Quote from: 04 SE DEUCE on January 30, 2019, 06:09:48 AM
Fork oil level is a very common tuning element in telescopic forks.

The smaller the "air space" the more progressive the "air spring" becomes. 

Long before adding so much oil that hydraulic lock is reached you will experience a firmer spring rate deep into travel, before the fork bottoms...reason why higher oil level is used to increase bottoming resistance.


Could you also put a heavier oil Weight in to firm it up also,,,,,,,  :SM:
2 Bikes and 2 Beemers, that's what I have been told 😳

Moparnut72

Quote from: Ghost Rider on January 29, 2019, 08:49:02 AM
Those that have used the drain out the bottom method on the 2010-2013 fairing models equipped with damper valves are you all feeling like you are getting most of the old dirty oil by just draining out the bottom? -  I have been told a significant amount will remain inside the tube. Or maybe just a small amount is left inside but enough for the engineers to call for dis-assembly of the fork. I'm thinking they wanted to ensure a complete drain.... they also extended the service interval to 50,000 miles about that time.

Probably had another boat payment coming up. Overkill in my opinion.
kk
If you find yourself in a fair fight,
You didn't prepare properly.

Moparnut72

Quote from: 04 SE DEUCE on January 30, 2019, 06:09:48 AM
Fork oil level is a very common tuning element in telescopic forks.

The smaller the "air space" the more progressive the "air spring" becomes. 

Long before adding so much oil that hydraulic lock is reached you will experience a firmer spring rate deep into travel, before the fork bottoms...reason why higher oil level is used to increase bottoming resistance.

I don't know how the Harley forks are designed but I know that too much oil in older Japanese bikes can blow the seals out under compression. The best way to tune is with different weights of oil.
kk
If you find yourself in a fair fight,
You didn't prepare properly.

04 SE Deuce

Quote from: Moparnut72 on February 03, 2019, 11:20:07 AM
Quote from: 04 SE DEUCE on January 30, 2019, 06:09:48 AM
Fork oil level is a very common tuning element in telescopic forks.

The smaller the "air space" the more progressive the "air spring" becomes. 

Long before adding so much oil that hydraulic lock is reached you will experience a firmer spring rate deep into travel, before the fork bottoms...reason why higher oil level is used to increase bottoming resistance.

I don't know how the Harley forks are designed but I know that too much oil in older Japanese bikes can blow the seals out under compression. The best way to tune is with different weights of oil.
kk

Suspension tuning is multi-dimensional,  when done properly it allows for problem issues to be addressed without changing areas that are already good by much.

Changing oil viscosity effects damping, both compression and rebound, over the entire stroke. 

Increasing oil level makes the spring rate more progressive, firming the last 1/3 or so of travel without effecting ride quality at ride height noticeably.  You get increased bottoming resistance without effecting small bump ride quality.

Oil level adjustments have a noticeable effect on fork bottoming without getting near hydraulic lock levels.

Maddo Snr

February 16, 2019, 01:00:03 PM #39 Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 01:04:50 PM by Maddo Snr
Quote from: Heinz on January 27, 2019, 08:52:19 AM
In my opinion a proper service includes replacing bushings and seals and inspecting the tubes for wear. The proper level of fork oil is important too. I don't see how you get that accuracy with a vacuum pump.

Yep, this ^^^

Different folks have different standards I guess. By the time you get the vac pump out and set it up, I can have the forks completely out of a RK.

An oil change and a decent fork service are two different things. I can't see the point of fresh oil when the lube-packing in the oil/dust seals is gone and is sucking new crud into your fresh oil. Also, the oil height becomes a lucky dip.

It's only a one day job, down and up. I don't get why you wouldn't do the job thoroughly.  :scratch: :nix:

Warning!: Ricks comment above refers to Cst viscosity NOT SAE oil 'weight'.

Many 5WT fork oils have higher Cst ratings than some 10WT fork oils.

Research your chosen oils' Cst rating...
2018 FLHX 107
Rinehart 45s, SE cleaner, TTS MasterTune. 92/108