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Reoccurring intake leak. Help please gentlemen

Started by misfitJason, August 28, 2017, 08:38:39 AM

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misfitJason

Bike info
2006 Dyna
95 inch 80cc heads street ported with mcrs
37h cams
Thunderheader
Hpi intake
Stock throttlebody with 25 degree injectors tts

I keep getting a intake leak between the seals and the manifold.  The manifold was really tight to get in after the heads.  I had the manifold mounting flanges shortened to stop the crowding. The manifold goes on easily now.  But I have an intake leak. I can see it on the data logs via iac steps, choppy idle, and when carb cleaner is sprayed around the flanges the idle drops and almost stalls






I do have a tiny gap between the manifold and the air cleaner bracket when in a neutral position




I even switched out manifolds to make sure it wasn't something I was missing. I am going to double check my gap at the manifold to heads for .015 on each side.  Should I take .010 off of the feet of the manifold mounting flanges to get a little or squish on the seals?  I also picked up a tube of yamabond number 4. This is driving me nuts.  What would you guys recommend?
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

Templer

verify that the flanges are FLAT!! IF the material removed from the flange is not parallel to the back side (facing outward from the head) it will also cause a problem. Place yours on a piece of glass then place another on top and the gap on both ends as measured at the glass should be the same. I found that there was/is a difference in the flange to gasket angle between the alu and OEM flanges!!!???.  Do NOT over tighten them!! I myself tightened mine from side to side a LITTLE at a time.PITA time!! Try using plain old DISH SOAP on the gaskets and TB. I went thru this myself and what I have posted WORKED!!!ALL THINGS ARE IMHO!!!

misfitJason

2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

Templer

I also found that both of the original OEM flanges had a (casting?)ridge on the top of a set of flanges causing the seal to hang and not slide forward when tightened.Top of beveled part of the flange.

Ajayrk

I had issues with an HPI.  The throttle body spigots were .010" under size compared to stock. Seals just were not tight when slipped on. Tried a variety of seals. Did so many changes that I could change seals in 45 minuets.  Even tried new flanges and a set of HPI flanges.  Had the stock throttle body bored out, installed it and stopped the leaks.
AJ

misfitJason

I'll post some pics of when I do setup and installation. Maybe you guys will catch an error I am doing
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

misfitJason

It was tight



I removed some material with a belt sander and wet sanded it to get about .015 on each side

It can now swing up this much


And down this much


I shortened to feet on the intake flange brackets by about .005


I used some yamalube number 4 on the new intake seals and put the intake on carefully trying to allow it to center.  I then put the air cleaner backing plate on and again tried to center it.  It had a small gap from where it wanted to sit. I shimmed the backing plate with some of those s&s rubber coated washers. Until it was happy


2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

aabikrman

Make sure nothing gets tightened down until the throttlebody with the backing plate is properly centered and vertically aligned.  In your pictures it looks like the manifold is centered well side to side but no clue as to vertical alignment.  The backing plate should be used to set horizontal AND vertical alignment....  Using the backing plate to get everything properly aligned and then snugging everything before final tightening is essential. 

The HPI backing plate has a lot of room for adjust-ability and its very easy to get mis-aligned but look good and even.  If you have the original Harley backing plate, it can be modified (cut up) to be used as a template or jig and have easier access to the manifold to head fasteners for proper alignment.  Use the oem backing plate to set alignment and then only snug fasteners down enough to prevent movement for the final process.  Remove the oem backing plate and then perform final tightening of the manifold fasteners and then backing plate, etc.  Hope this makes sense, don't ask me how I know this......

Good luck and I hope that's what your issue is !

misfitJason

The idle seemed to have improved.  I am still getting the variance in cli's at idle but my Iac steps came up some to about 22-23.  I haven't sprayed the seals yet.  What do you guys think.  Is the variance in cli's just overlap reversion or a still present vacuum/intake leak?  Here is a new log

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t15utgusrq7hah6/intake%20fix-r01.dm3?dl=0
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

misfitJason

Quote from: aabikrman on August 31, 2017, 06:41:35 AM
Make sure nothing gets tightened down until the throttlebody with the backing plate is properly centered and vertically aligned.  In your pictures it looks like the manifold is centered well side to side but no clue as to vertical alignment.  The backing plate should be used to set horizontal AND vertical alignment....  Using the backing plate to get everything properly aligned and then snugging everything before final tightening is essential. 

The HPI backing plate has a lot of room for adjust-ability and its very easy to get mis-aligned but look good and even.  If you have the original Harley backing plate, it can be modified (cut up) to be used as a template or jig and have easier access to the manifold to head fasteners for proper alignment.  Use the oem backing plate to set alignment and then only snug fasteners down enough to prevent movement for the final process.  Remove the oem backing plate and then perform final tightening of the manifold fasteners and then backing plate, etc.  Hope this makes sense, don't ask me how I know this......

Good luck and I hope that's what your issue is !

I'll try that with the oem backing plate.  It can't hurt and thanks for the advice
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

misfitJason

Yeah.... it still leaks when sprayed with carb cleaner.  I got some different seals from Dennis Kirk.  One set is a James gasket set kind of like the oems.  The other set is the black ones with the metal built into them and the have a lip. I'll try those next week.  Looks like I'll be riding the softail on Saturday.






2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

JTM65

I had a hard time with my 01 MM stock intake sealing. Finally got it working when I replaced the flanges and used dish soap (as suggested by another HTT member). I also used the Genuine James gaskets. Best of luck!
Thanks, JT

misfitJason

Well I think I may have located the issue thanks to help. 

The Hpi plate looked like it was centering the manifold.  It was a big difference between where the oem backing plate puts it.  Now, from trimming the manifold spigots, there is waay to much of a gap.  I will have to find a new to me 06-up dyna manifold to start over.  Anyone holding












2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

prodrag1320

Quote from: misfitJason on September 15, 2017, 02:54:25 PM
Well I think I may have located the issue thanks to help. 

The Hpi plate looked like it was centering the manifold.  It was a big difference between where the oem backing plate puts it.  Now, from trimming the manifold spigots, there is waay to much of a gap.  I will have to find a new to me 06-up dyna manifold to start over.  Anyone holding














I was thinking it would end up with something like this,the heads were not milled enough where fitment should have ever been a problem in the first place

misfitJason

Got the new to me intake manifold on with the stock backing plate.  It's better but still not perfect. I didn't spray it yet but it still hunts a little bit and my iac steps are better (29-32 warm).  Do you guys think it could just be I would need to adjust the throttle stop?  When I close the butterfly on a piece of printer paper it won't even come out.  I thought about adjusting it a bit if I spray it and it doesn't leak
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

misfitJason

well, it's definitely still leaking and it gets worse when it's warm.  When it's cold just off of warmup it idles nice and the steps are better.  Then it warms and the steps drop back into the twenties and my cli's bounce all around to 107 percent.  No matter what I make the idle ve's it will still stray to lean.  Any recommendations
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

rbabos

Quote from: misfitJason on October 07, 2017, 05:14:02 AM
well, it's definitely still leaking and it gets worse when it's warm.  When it's cold just off of warmup it idles nice and the steps are better.  Then it warms and the steps drop back into the twenties and my cli's bounce all around to 107 percent.  No matter what I make the idle ve's it will still stray to lean.  Any recommendations
Have you logged IAT sensor and head temp sensor for correct behaviour? IAC is still in control, so any extra air from a leak, if there is one would be countered keeping the AFR intact at idle. Having both go lean with present IAC idle control makes no sense, at least to me.  :idunno:Mid 20s steps are fine.
Ron

Don D

06 model year is a bitch.
A small mill of the heads and this happens. The shoulder that the flange goes up against becomes a problem and in the way so guys mill the flanges. That is wrong too as they then warp. Shorten the spigots, no help. If the bolts go in tough you have an issue. Best way to fix this is milling the head flange faces.

1FSTRK

Jason
How much room is between the end of each spigot and the head surface when installed and centered?

How much room is between the throttle body boss and the back of the flange when the flange bolts are tight?

Did you inspect the intake surface on the head, I have seen many that have factory cutter marks that go from the port to outside the seal surface and will cause a gap the seal will not push into causing a leak.

The procedure that Vic taught me was to install the TB mounted to the backing plate with flanges and no seals. Make all the measurements and make sure the bolts screw in freely without binding and then visually check that the spigot is centered in the hole of the flange.
If all is good remove and reinstall with new seals and a light coat of dish soap on the spigot and beveled surface of the flange. Never had a leak using this method.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

misfitJason

The intake points on the heads are flat and smooth with no marks or scratches.  WHen the manifold is mounted with no flanges or seals I have .010 between each side of the spigot and the heads.  The manifold seems to align up well and centered.  I used the plastic stock backing plate last time with james intake seals. 

All of the times before I used oem seals (new each time).  I have numerous sets of flanges (all proper ones for the 06-up style heads).  I am using ones now that were machined on the backside to help with crowding by a machinist.  I also have a set that have the feet machined off of them.  My intake manifold has not been trimmed.  I have a crowding issue with the out of the package flanges to the backside of the intake manifold spigots.  I will try and take it down again and use the flanges with no seals and check alignment.  I will also felt tip pen the spigots and how they align with the ports.  If I don't use shortened flanges, I get a crowding and binding issue when installing the manifold.

I have logged the IAT with headtemp and warm the steps are still in the twenties.  My idle hunts and hangs up when returning to idle at speed.  The bike runs hotter than it should.  Here is a log from riding into work this morning.  You can see what the idle cli's do at idle and off idle and no matter how many times I tune it or have it tuned the off idle cli's will always go to lean pretty much no matter what the ve is.  My mid range and up to speed the tune holds well.  I thoght about trying the HPI manifold flanges but Jimmy tells me they are even thicker.

this is a tts log

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0183oxwlm7ry5jy/10-08-17%20%282%29-r03.dm3?dl=0
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

1FSTRK

Are the bolts binding in the bottom of the flange holes when you start them in the heads?
My bet is when you assemble without seals you will see the spigots are touching on the top of the flange bores, this will pinch the top of the seals and not let them slide down the spigot to seal against the head. 
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

misfitJason

I don't know about binding^ but the last bolt is a bitch to get in like the intake needs to move back further.  I will try what you say on monday or tuesday
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

Don D

The intake faces on the heads need to be milled and start out with a virgin manifold and flanges, then install the way that was suggested.  The seals are not the issue, james, cometic, harley are all virtually the same. All work.

1FSTRK

Quote from: HD Street Performance on October 08, 2017, 11:15:27 AM
The intake faces on the heads need to be milled and start out with a virgin manifold and flanges, then install the way that was suggested.  The seals are not the issue, james, cometic, harley are all virtually the same. All work.

Don, I agree milling the surface will help but it needs to be done sparingly. The more you take from the head surface the more the seals will overhang the end of the spigot when in place and the spogits are a little short to begin with. I have seen where a little work in the top of the backing plate bosses where they bolt to the heads will drop the TB and spigots down enough in the flanges to center them and actually keep the spigots nice and close to the heads as long as there is room between the back of the flanges and the TB bosses.

As for the seals all being the same, there is a noticable difference in the density of the material used in some brands and it can make or break the outcome on a troublesome install.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Don D

In this case I would only cut ~.015 but it makes all the difference in the world. And I certainly know it is no fun to have to pull the heads and any other option is better if it works, I see your point Eric

Ohio HD

To me as long as you have a slight gap between the heads and manifold, when everything is aligned, it should be sealing. As long as you know it can be aligned without binding, as was described above to check, you should be fine. You mentioned it was hard to start the last bolt, are you threading three in most of the way then trying the fourth bolt? You could be binding against the seal at that point and that's why the bolt has resistance against the flange. Assuming the bolt threads freely with nothing around it. I use silicone spray this last time on my intake seals. Spray it all over them, then shake the seal to fling off excess. This allows movement of the intake all the way up to the final tightening of the four fasteners. Also, if you are not already doing this, tighten the four fasteners about 1/2 turn each after they make contact with the flange. Finger tight to the flange, then 1/2 turn each till they are tight.

kd

 :agree:  and would add .... keep a watch on the flanges to see that they are level with the head surface before you start to cinch them down (using the system Ohio explained that moves each fastener a little at a time until home).
KD

FXDBI

Quote from: kd on October 08, 2017, 12:54:21 PM
:agree:  and would add .... keep a watch on the flanges to see that they are level with the head surface before you start to cinch them down (using the system Ohio explained that moves each fastener a little at a time until home).

Also check that you not bottomed out on the last threads.  Bob

misfitJason

Quote from: FXDBI on October 08, 2017, 01:33:54 PM
Quote from: kd on October 08, 2017, 12:54:21 PM
:agree:  and would add .... keep a watch on the flanges to see that they are level with the head surface before you start to cinch them down (using the system Ohio explained that moves each fastener a little at a time until home).

Also check that you not bottomed out on the last threads.  Bob


What do you mean by not bottomed out?  Are you talking thread depth into the head?
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

FXDBI

Quote from: misfitJason on October 08, 2017, 03:28:17 PM
Quote from: FXDBI on October 08, 2017, 01:33:54 PM
Quote from: kd on October 08, 2017, 12:54:21 PM
:agree:  and would add .... keep a watch on the flanges to see that they are level with the head surface before you start to cinch them down (using the system Ohio explained that moves each fastener a little at a time until home).

Also check that you not bottomed out on the last threads.  Bob


What do you mean by not bottomed out?  Are you talking thread depth into the head?
Yes .  Bob

misfitJason

they definitely aren't bottoming out. 


Does anybody make a thinner (than stock) intake flange for 06-up heads?
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

Herko

Quote from: misfitJason on October 08, 2017, 03:45:37 PM
Does anybody make a thinner (than stock) intake flange for 06-up heads?

Easy enough to mill the flanges. I kept a set or two of milled flanges (.015-.020) on the shelf for such cases for applications/mods that required thinner flanges.
When needed, relieves the crowding/binding of the flange to the step-shoulder on the manifold alleviating an intake leak due to binding and an unhappy fitment.
Considering a power upgrade?
First and foremost, focus on your tuning plan.

Herko

Manifold/throttle body position must dictate air cleaner position. Not the opposite.

When mounting an air cleaner, if the air cleaner components or the mounting process pushes, pulls, shoves, twists, re-centers, or binds the manifold/throttle body in any way...you are setting yourself up for an intake leak.
Considering a power upgrade?
First and foremost, focus on your tuning plan.

Ohio HD

Quote from: Herko on October 09, 2017, 05:30:48 AM
Manifold/throttle body position must dictate air cleaner position. Not the opposite.

When mounting an air cleaner, if the air cleaner components or the mounting process pushes, pulls, shoves, twists, re-centers, or binds the manifold/throttle body in any way...you are setting yourself up for an intake leak.

Agree, you have to let the manifold go where it wants to go, providing you aren't too narrow or too wide. I also use a machine level to insure the mouth of the TB is at 90° to the motor being at 0° or level.

That's why air breather kits like the R&R Cycles Over Flow are adjustable at the support brackets. HPI and I disagreed there. They kept telling me to use a stock backing plate to set the TB location. I knew better.


1FSTRK

Quote from: Herko on October 09, 2017, 05:30:48 AM
Manifold/throttle body position must dictate air cleaner position. Not the opposite.

When mounting an air cleaner, if the air cleaner components or the mounting process pushes, pulls, shoves, twists, re-centers, or binds the manifold/throttle body in any way...you are setting yourself up for an intake leak.

:up: :up:
That is exactly why the procedure I posted assembles with no seals to check all clearances and centering when held only by the backing plate.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

kd

Pulling the backing plate up to the heads will cause this misalignment. S&S sells rubber coated shims that can be stacked (if necessary) behind the mounting posts. If already to tall (as noticed when test fitting) some material can be removed and then shimmed back to a good fit.
KD

1FSTRK

The backing plate is a 3D controller.
Up/Down
In/Out
Front/back

Milling the heads not only narrows the distance between the intake surfaces compound angle, it also moves the backing plate mounting bosses closer together.

The backing plate should be shimmed, milled, holes moved so that when bolted to the TB and heads the spigots are not touching the heads evenly front to rear and are centered in the flange bores in all directions with no seals installed.  Once it is determined that the proper clearence is set you can install the seals and make any final adjustments to insure the back plate does not fight the seals. I will add that when done this way I have never needed to make any corrections on final assembly
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

misfitJason

I rode her today.  I sprayed around the flanges with carb cleaner.  It's definitely leaking on the horn side of the bike if that tells you anything. 

I am going to try and get an appointment at a very reputable shop that does good work.  The problem is he does great work and is always booked.  If I can't get anything decently soon I'll try and take it apart again for the tenth time. 
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

Schex3x

Leaking on the horn side means your spraying towards the the a/c, now it may be leaking, but just to make sure,

I use brake clean to check for leaks, it's real easy to get false reading if the slightest amount enters the a/c.

I remove the filter and get someone to hold a 3' piece of pvc pipe up tight to the throttle body or carb opening, then I can spray it good with no false indication of a leak.



Don D

Finger over the IAC air feed port kill the motor at idle?

rbabos

Quote from: Schex3x on October 11, 2017, 08:56:11 PM
Leaking on the horn side means your spraying towards the the a/c, now it may be leaking, but just to make sure,

I use brake clean to check for leaks, it's real easy to get false reading if the slightest amount enters the a/c.

I remove the filter and get someone to hold a 3' piece of pvc pipe up tight to the throttle body or carb opening, then I can spray it good with no false indication of a leak.
That bit me in the ass once but it was using propane. Went through a needless seal change only to discover when checking from left side the tb inlet was sucking up fumes. Checks from right side with flow away from the throat showed no issues. :banghead:
Ron

misfitJason

Quote from: HD Street Performance on October 12, 2017, 03:53:10 AM
Finger over the IAC air feed port kill the motor at idle?
Quote from: Schex3x on October 11, 2017, 08:56:11 PM
Leaking on the horn side means your spraying towards the the a/c, now it may be leaking, but just to make sure,

I use brake clean to check for leaks, it's real easy to get false reading if the slightest amount enters the a/c.

I remove the filter and get someone to hold a 3' piece of pvc pipe up tight to the throttle body or carb opening, then I can spray it good with no false indication of a leak.






It kills the motor with the finger over the iac. 

I am checking only from the ac side.  It sputters when I spray the carb cleaner toward the tup backside of the flanges.  ALmost toward the fuel injectors
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

Don D


1FSTRK

Quote from: HD Street Performance on October 12, 2017, 11:11:16 AM
I am now doubtful you have a leak.

Why would you think the bike would run with the IAC covered? It is the Idle Air Control, with it covered you do not have enough air to maintain idle.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Don D

Which is my point, block the idle air and they run on the leaking air by the flanges at the head if it is leaking there. They don't die.

misfitJason

I don't think I have that bad of a leak.  However I never tried covering the iac while it was hot which is when my leak seems to be present.
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

rbabos

Quote from: misfitJason on October 13, 2017, 08:14:28 AM
I don't think I have that bad of a leak.  However I never tried covering the iac while it was hot which is when my leak seems to be present.
Jason: I would switch over to propane testing. It's effects on engine running are dramatic on the slightest leak and no mess.  I just converted a propane torch. Removed the nozzle and added a 2' hose with a restrictor in the .030-.040 plug in the end. Adjust valve to slightest flow needed. Check all around each sensor and seals. If the engine doesn't attempt to quit at any of these areas, you have no leaks.
Ron

To The Max

Hi , I had a problem with a air leak as well in the end the manifold was cracked at the radius of the machined spigot on the manifold. it was very hard to see and it took me a long time to find it. Max

misfitJason

^ it's definitely not a crack. I have been through several manifolds with the same result. I am confident it's an alignment issue with the backing plate vs placement at the ports. We have biketoberfest going on right now and as a result anyone who is any good (Indy) is busy as all get out. As am I with just life. So I have to wait for everything to quiet down
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

DrSpencer

Quote from: rbabos on October 12, 2017, 07:03:02 AM
Quote from: Schex3x on October 11, 2017, 08:56:11 PM
Leaking on the horn side means your spraying towards the the a/c, now it may be leaking, but just to make sure,

I use brake clean to check for leaks, it's real easy to get false reading if the slightest amount enters the a/c.

I remove the filter and get someone to hold a 3' piece of pvc pipe up tight to the throttle body or carb opening, then I can spray it good with no false indication of a leak.
That bit me in the ass once but it was using propane. Went through a needless seal change only to discover when checking from left side the tb inlet was sucking up fumes. Checks from right side with flow away from the throat showed no issues. :banghead:
Ron

2011, 103" Street Glide w/35K miles. SE intake, SE255's, pipes, TTS

I was cleaning the throttle body during a bunch of routine maintenance, and just for kicks, I thought I'd test for an intake leak (Note: air cleaner was removed for this test)

With the bike running, sprayed brake cleaner on the intake flanges/seals from the right side of the bike: No change in idle. Nothing.

Sprayed brake cleaner on the intake flanges/seals from the left side (the horn side) and the bike would stumble. If I kept spraying, it would stall.

I decided to repeat this test using a blue can of propane with a piece of fuel line attached to the brass tip.

Waved the open propane on the right side flange/seals: Nothing

Waved the open propane on the left (horn) side flange seals: Nothing.

Repeated the test again using the brake cleaner: Same results as described above

Bike runs decent. Doesn't throw any codes. Doesn't pop, backfire etc.

Do I have an intake leak? Why did the idle change with the brake cleaner, but not the propane? Any other test you'd like me to do to confirm the presence of a leak?

Thanks

kd

I think you'll find that from the left side you are getting spray bypassing the manifold and entering the intake throat.  you will have to protect the throttle body from picking up the over-spray.
KD

Don D

Which brings me back to suspecting there is no leak present.

DrSpencer

Quote from: kd on August 10, 2019, 06:28:30 AM
I think you'll find that from the left side you are getting spray bypassing the manifold and entering the intake throat.  you will have to protect the throttle body from picking up the over-spray.

Would putting the air filter element back on offer enough protection to the throttle body to give a definitive answer as to whether I have a leak or not?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks

86fxwg

Quote from: DrSpencer on August 10, 2019, 09:07:49 AM
Quote from: kd on August 10, 2019, 06:28:30 AM
I think you'll find that from the left side you are getting spray bypassing the manifold and entering the intake throat.  you will have to protect the throttle body from picking up the over-spray.

Would putting the air filter element back on offer enough protection to the throttle body to give a definitive answer as to whether I have a leak or not?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks
The idea of a piece of PVC pipe I like!
I like a smoke machine to find leaks but not everyones got one.
On old cars we use 0/20 oil to find leaks. They start running better cause it seals the leak,then starts the blue smoke thing!
Other than a little messy on a bike not sure why it wouldnt work! Nothing a piece of pig mat woudnt take care of stuffed between the V.


86

86
86fxwg 06flhx 10flhx

86fxwg

An idea. Why couldn't a guy add UV dye to a squirt can of oil dribble oil around the flange clean it off real well remove the intake & see if there's a trace of dye in the intake track.
86
86fxwg 06flhx 10flhx

Hossamania

Quote from: DrSpencer on August 10, 2019, 09:07:49 AM
Quote from: kd on August 10, 2019, 06:28:30 AM
I think you'll find that from the left side you are getting spray bypassing the manifold and entering the intake throat.  you will have to protect the throttle body from picking up the over-spray.

Would putting the air filter element back on offer enough protection to the throttle body to give a definitive answer as to whether I have a leak or not?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks

The air filter might help filter out the overspray. When spraying, try and get it to come out in a dribble with a spray tube to put it right where you want it, try to cut down on overspray. Perhaps even make a cardboard "guard" to prevent overspray from getting around to the front of the intake.

Quote from: HD Street Performance on August 10, 2019, 07:02:12 AM
Which brings me back to suspecting there is no leak present.

My thought also.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.