Runs Rich then lean

[buell95]

My 06 Ultra with the S&S 100" power package
Seems to run rich to its ran and warmed up good.
Black soot at the end of the exhaust tips.
But after warmed up and under load it pings like crazy.
Any ideas what would cause this.
Nothing odd looking on the dyno sheet.
Its posted in the dyno section if you want to take a look.
Thanks

[PoorUB]

Sounds like a poor job on the tune.

[FXDBI]

Sounds like a poor job on the tune.

   I dint want to be the first one to say this.      Bob

[BVHOG]

Just cause it's pinging doesn't mean it's lean, more likely it has too much timing

[Scotty]

Sounds like a poor tune all round as EFI should not be so rich as to leave soot in the pipe regardless of cold or warm that is the best part of EFI with a good tune.

And as said above the timing could be so advanced it's pinging and actually losing power so you may have more there and the tuner. well let's just say he wasn't having a good day.

[Herko]

Seems to run rich to its ran and warmed up good.
Black soot at the end of the exhaust tips.

Another one of those areas of tuning that separates the men from from the boys.

Competent assessment of cold start and warm up engine operation is part of a comprehensive tune. How does one do this properly unless sampling and data collection are done on a "cold" engine. Then, does the tuner have a good working knowledge of these particular ancillary tables in the tuning software.

[guydoc77]

About five or six years ago I was at BVHOG's shop. He had bought a 2002 bagger with a modded 95"at a bargain price during the winter and had never ridden it. We went for lunch. Of course one would assume that a modded bike would be properly tuned. Well I rode the thing 12 miles to the next town and it sounded like the very beginning of "Black Water" by the Doobie Brothers. Well that didn't last long. Bob immediately put it on the Dyno. Timing was waaaaay off. VE tables were way off. An hour later it was a completely different bike. Was a real good 95" after tuned properly.

It is frustrating to me to realize that this still goes on, apparently rampantly. Thousands are dumped into various builds with expectations and promises. Then the tune, or lack thereof, is provided incompetently and with impunity, without regret by the person/establishment doing it. Maybe there is just still a lot of ignorance. I don't know and it continues to baffle me. I, personally, wouldn't even change a pipe without considering the endpoint, that being who will tune it and how they will tune it.  Still, too often, the tune is more of an afterthought.

[PoorUB]

I have had tunes done by reputable tuners that were still not right. The big reason I just Street tune my own. I am not saying I  get it perfect either, but the engine runs well and gets decent gas mileage.

Gonenorth and I had similar Harleys tuned the same day by the same guy. Both of us got crappy MPG on the interstate and did some street tuning and got the MPG at 80 MPH from 27 to 36 MPG. It is one hell of a ride learning tuning. I have a pretty good understanding before had but going in, but learning the software was interesting.

[buell95]

I would like to rephrase my question.
The bike did not do this at first it ran great.
It only just recently started doing this after putting
More miles on it. So my question is what would make
The tune change? I have been in contact with my tuner
And I know he will make it right,
Unfortunately he's a one man show and I just can't
Go in there and expect him to drop everything.
He will get it figured out, I just wanted to know
What would make a tune change.

[harpwrench]

Have you messed with the discs? The screws should just be barely snug, if they're overtightened the gaps can be too close and maybe they're plugging up

[Scotty]

I would like to rephrase my question.
The bike did not do this at first it ran great.
It only just recently started doing this after putting
More miles on it. So my question is what would make
The tune change? I have been in contact with my tuner
And I know he will make it right,
Unfortunately he's a one man show and I just can't
Go in there and expect him to drop everything.
He will get it figured out, I just wanted to know
What would make a tune change.

Well a 2006 doesn't have O2 sensors unless you have added them as a bad one can make a tune change.
If you have not changed anything and that means anything then it might be a number of things but the ET sensor can cause issues like you describe.
Mechanical issue that has developed and this might need investigating and I would start with a compression test and see where you are at.

[Hossamania]

Check for vacuum leaks.

[PoorUB]

Does the '06 have a temp sensor on the front head? Possibly the sensor is failing and out of calibration, screwing up the tune.

[Scotty]

Does the '06 have a temp sensor on the front head? Possibly the sensor is failing and out of calibration, screwing up the tune.

Yes I wrote that 2 messages above yours ET sensor (Engine Temperature Sensor)

[Pirsch Fire Wagon]

The ETS is easily checked using a DVOM and back pinning the Signal Wire with a T-Pin using the VDC Setting. Also, a good idea to use some Electrical Contact Cleaner and Dielectric Grease to keep moisture out.

Do you have an Aftermarket Tuner or was the ECM Tuned?

Intake Seals can leak when the get Hot as well. You can use Propane or a Carb Cleaner to check. If the idle increases there is a leak detected.