HarleyTechTalk

Quote from: kd on March 25, 2022, 06:33:29 AMI agree about the metal brush, especially soft brass for tracking.  Stainless bristles will make scratches and a perfect set up for permanent carbon tracking.  Even the old Champion spark plug cleaning machines used an abrasive blast not a brush.

With respect to the plug gap, I have used down to .022" gap in a high compression engine.  The spark is hotter due to the close gap and holds for a longer duration before it collapses.

Thanks kd, what's your preferred method of gapping a plug without damaging it?

I don't have a special tool for this.

Cheers

"What's the theory behind running single fire"

DTT does not employ typical Harley dual fire, it is multiple sparks at TDC from what I was told. One spark has a higher charge and hits on time, that's my theory.
In my experience less tendency to ping and zero loss of anything

Quote from: Adam76 on March 25, 2022, 04:44:34 PM

Quote from: kd on March 25, 2022, 06:33:29 AMI agree about the metal brush, especially soft brass for tracking.  Stainless bristles will make scratches and a perfect set up for permanent carbon tracking.  Even the old Champion spark plug cleaning machines used an abrasive blast not a brush.

With respect to the plug gap, I have used down to .022" gap in a high compression engine.  The spark is hotter due to the close gap and holds for a longer duration before it collapses.

Thanks kd, what's your preferred method of gapping a plug without damaging it?

I don't have a special tool for this.

Cheers

A plug gapping tool is common and inexpensive.  Look for one with a gapped fork like cut in it to hook the ground strap and bend it.  I would shy away from ones with the ramp you use to go between the electrode and the strap to force them apart.  It is possible to damage the plug ceramic on the electr4ode or internal resister.  I only adjust the ground strap for distance.  This is also a good time to inspect the strap for a sharp squared off end.  The spark arcs across the sharp corners of the strap and electrode so the sharper the edges, the better.  I also use actual known feeler gauges to set the clearance to the point the blade of the gauge just makes it into the gap you create and very slid drag is felt when you drag the feeler between the plug contacts.

     Adam, Check out OEMTOOLS 25442. These are cheap and most auto parts stores carry them.

Quote from: Hossamania on March 25, 2022, 05:28:38 AMI always double check the gaps, often inconsistent from the box. If dropped during any part of the shipping process they can get out of whack.
I also prefer to run mine at 35 thousandth, rather than up to the allowed 43 thousandth. I'd read years ago it takes less energy to jump the smaller gap, the fuel doesn't care if it fires with a shorter gap.
Again, it's all about the details.
For your plugs, I would clean them up a little with a brass brush, check gaps, and throw them back in with just a touch of anti size on the threads.

Thanks Hoss, I checked my gaps today and they were 30 - 32 thou according to my feeler guage set.

I'm assuming this is a good gap to run. I'm hopefully going to put a few miles on the bike this week now that I'm more confident that the tuning / tuning is close.

Thanks

That gap will work just fine, good luck!

Quote from: Hossamania on March 27, 2022, 04:30:06 AMThat gap will work just fine, good luck!

OK, so I waited for some cool weather and did a 50 mile break in ride.

Something ain't right, it was a bit sluggish for what the build should be, and the ground strap of the plugs look like they have taken a beating.

Is this overheating? Detonation? Low compression?

Im running with timing on 2 / 3....  tried 5 / 5 very briefly, didn't feel any different.
I Couldn't hear any detonation while riding...

Thanks for any advice.

Here are the plugs.

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With my TT i am a 2 as any more it throughs back at stater currently at 7 no pinging. 10.5 and de comps. Your plugs hav strange marks on earth straps. No 2 is getting a build up off little balls on porslain maybe detonation 

Are the plugs new?  The electrodes and strap edges look worn.

Quote from: kd on April 03, 2022, 10:11:31 PMAre the plugs new?  The electrodes and strap edges look worn.

Hey kd, yes plugs were new and installed for putting the first 50 miles out so on them and then looking at the result.

Thanks

Pauly are you running external vents? And did you mark the plugs via when removing ? If you zoom rear plug looks to have been chucked around the bench

Quote from: JSD on April 03, 2022, 11:29:25 PMPauly are you running external vents? And did you mark the plugs via when removing ? If you zoom rear plug looks to have been chucked around the bench

Yeah, nah. Definitely not thrown around the bench. Literally straight from the parts store and installed carefully.

Sluggish could be a number of things but just setting the timing at 2-3 might not be giving the motor what it wants to run. Retarding the timing usually makes the bike feel sluggish.

Single spark or multi spark?

Those plugs are under a lot of pressure and have a flame ball igniting around them from a mixture of fuel and air and they are going to take a beating so sometimes one must call into question the quality of the actual spark plug.

How anyone is seeing any sort of detonation from those photos is beyond me.

I would probably put a washer under the needle to raise it a little bit as all I can see is a bit of colour on the insulation leaning towards the bike being a bit lean.

Quote from: Scotty on April 04, 2022, 01:32:49 AMSluggish could be a number of things but just setting the timing at 2-3 might not be giving the motor what it wants to run. Retarding the timing usually makes the bike feel sluggish.

Single spark or multi spark?

Those plugs are under a lot of pressure and have a flame ball igniting around them from a mixture of fuel and air and they are going to take a beating so sometimes one must call into question the quality of the actual spark plug.

How anyone is seeing any sort of detonation from those photos is beyond me.

I would probably put a washer under the needle to raise it a little bit as all I can see is a bit of colour on the insulation leaning towards the bike being a bit lean.

Thanks Scotty,
I'll try advancing the timing a bit.

The plugs are NGK

It's currently on single fire - advised by Don - but I can try multi spark and see how that goes.

As far a the needle goes, it's not the oem needle - it's a genuine CV performance velocity needle. I don't have any needle washers or know if you can put washers under this particular needle?

Thanks for the reply.

Leave it at single spark.

Yes you can put a washer under that needle as all you want to do is just richen up the mid range a bit.
If one washer is not enough try 2.

NGK generally good plugs it is what I run but a couple of new ones wont hurt and don't cost that much and will be an easier read once you richen up the mid range.

Thanks, will do.

I'm also going to check CCP tomorrow just to be sure I have the compression I should have.

I feel like the previous build that went south on me had more power and responsiveness... but it was with different pistons / and cams so it's apples and oranges.

Cheers

#4 brass washers are what I use for needle shimming. Autolite 4162 plugs.

Quote from: Adam76 on April 03, 2022, 10:47:15 PM

Quote from: kd on April 03, 2022, 10:11:31 PMAre the plugs new?  The electrodes and strap edges look worn.

Hey kd, yes plugs were new and installed for putting the first 50 miles out so on them and then looking at the result.

Thanks

It must be the quality (low pixels) of the pics then.  A new set of plugs generally has distinguishable sharp edges and when enlarging your pics they do not look sharp.

Zoom in on last plug pic and notice marks on the top of outer case also impregnation on porslain

Quote from: Hossamania on April 04, 2022, 04:28:30 AM#4 brass washers are what I use for needle shimming. Autolite 4162 plugs.

Adam, I'm sorry, I gave the wrong plug number, it is 4164.

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Quote from: kd on April 04, 2022, 06:38:46 AM

Quote from: Adam76 on April 03, 2022, 10:47:15 PM

Quote from: kd on April 03, 2022, 10:11:31 PMAre the plugs new?  The electrodes and strap edges look worn.

Hey kd, yes plugs were new and installed for putting the first 50 miles out so on them and then looking at the result.

Thanks

It must be the quality (low pixels) of the pics then.  A new set of plugs generally has distinguishable sharp edges and when enlarging your pics they do not look sharp.

Yes, sorry I'm having trouble taking close up photos on the new phone I have.... trying to sort it out.

Quote from: Hossamania on April 04, 2022, 04:28:30 AM#4 brass washers are what I use for needle shimming. Autolite 4162 plugs.

Should I shim the needle or just try a 48 pilot jet? What's the difference between the two methods?

Thanks

Just checked CCP - both cylinders at 195.
At least something is right.

Quote from: Scotty on April 04, 2022, 02:18:47 AMYes you can put a washer under that needle as all you want to do is just richen up the mid range a bit.
If one washer is not enough try 2.

Scotty, should I just go the next size up pilot jet? (48)  Or do you recommend shimming the needle first?
Thanks